My thoughts about Sam and Jack in the third movie (spec and spoilers)

[Skydiver]

I don't have an issue with his birthdate either. it contradicts what Jack said in brief candle...so there will be some that stick with 'jack was 40 in season one' because of that

this ambiguity does make it likely that whatever confirmation there might/might not be in the movie will be something scripted

[Frostfox]

I don't have an issue with his birthdate either. it contradicts what Jack said in brief candle...so there will be some that stick with 'jack was 40 in season one' because of that

this ambiguity does make it likely that whatever confirmation there might/might not be in the movie will be something scripted

Yeah, that's what worries me.
I'm afraid of a return to the Vaseline-on-the-lens, syrup-drowned-violins, I-must-gaze-into-your-cerulean/chocolate*-orbs garbage of some of the more heavy handed attempts at 'romance' - see that execrable scene in Evolution for an example – It’s so much more important that Sam and Sir share A Moment Of Great Romantic Importance than they show any concern for their mutual best friend who’s being tortured. Despite the fact that Sam is a fully competent USAF officer, going off world with her father, a Jaffa master and Teal’c, with well over a couple of centuries of experience between them, no, it’s more important that Sir won’t be there to look after the little woman. Shudder.
TPTB history at writing romance for this pairing is just dire, I dread to think what drek they will come up with this time.

*delete as appropriate

FF

[Skydiver]

I can't disagree that they can't write 'good' relationship to save their lives.

It's like the writers' sensibilities are still stuck back in high school (or that they get their romantic ideas out of Twilight)

There would be hope - for some - that the actors would be able to override what's written and do what they feel would work best for the characters (like they did with the forcefield dialogue in upgrades/D&C)

[never_on_earth]

There is a new button, scroll down as far as you possibly can, down, down, further down, there, bottom left, says 'Variable Width' The boys get my unending gratitude for this button.

Thanks! That's a lot better

I can't disagree that they can't write 'good' relationship to save their lives.

It's like the writers' sensibilities are still stuck back in high school (or that they get their romantic ideas out of Twilight)

There would be hope - for some - that the actors would be able to override what's written and do what they feel would work best for the characters (like they did with the forcefield dialogue in upgrades/D&C)

Oh yeah! I love angst in fanfiction but just NOT in the show. All the drama around "No please, don't die, I haven't told you yet how much I luuuuv you" just makes me want to cry in frustration. But I really don't think TPTB would do that. And I don't think the actors would do it either! And you're right. The forcefield dialogue (or more like non-dialogue), was well-played.

About confirmation... I'm not in the team of the "I want to see a ring or a change of name". I don't want to see them married, it would be weird and OOC in my opinion. And I don't want any make out like teenagers session either. A kiss, why not, but above all subtle and yet undeniable hints.
I mean, a reason why I love the pairing is because they're adults, and make grown ups decisions about their relationship(s). I'm tired of all these shows where the characters act like teenagers around each other.

So anyway, I love the pairing but still Stargate is not (primarly) about romance, and I'd still enjoy movie 3 without confirmation. I undersatnd why people are passionate about the pairing, but still, it's not worth, IMO, jumping at the throat of the one who disagrees with you, and certainly not worth deciding to DON'T watch the show anymore because we don't like the outcome of the pairing in question.

(sorry about the poor syntax, I am very tired)

[slurredspeech]

The forcefield dialogue (or more like non-dialogue), was well-played.

IMHO, one of the most powerful ship moments I've had the pleasure of seeing on TV. That scene was just... impeccably right.

About confirmation... I'm not in the team of the "I want to see a ring or a change of name". I don't want to see them married, it would be weird and OOC in my opinion. And I don't want any make out like teenagers session either.

This.

I happily admit that I'm one of those people who doesn't think that True Love must inevitably end in marriage or else the relationship is somehow less. Sure, marriage is extremely important to some people and that's more than fine. I just don't think Sam and Jack are one of those people that would find it necessary at this stage of their lives. I can see them living together - posting allowing, of course. Other than perhaps making it 'easier' in re to their jobs and regs, I don't see either pushing for marriage.

And make-out sessions are just a no-no. Not because they're in their 40s/50s. But because they're over 20.

So anyway, I love the pairing but still Stargate is not (primarly) about romance, and I'd still enjoy movie 3 without confirmation.

Me too. If the story they come (came) up with is quality television, I'd enjoy it either way. I have to say, though, it would be nice if they finally resolved that storyline.

[Skydiver]

You know, i can see them the same way. happily co-habiting. if they do get married, i don't see a full out 500 guest formal affair in the academy chapel

what i see is a quick ceremony with a few friends present, or even the 'trip to vegas'

they're both low key people. and both have busy lives and careers and i thinkthe main reason they'd get married would be for simple legality and to, unquestionably, be the other's next of kin and DPOA (power of attorney)

[Petra]

About confirmation... I'm not in the team of the "I want to see a ring or a change of name". I don't want to see them married, it would be weird and OOC in my opinion. And I don't want any make out like teenagers session either. A kiss, why not, but above all subtle and yet undeniable hints.
I mean, a reason why I love the pairing is because they're adults, and make grown ups decisions about their relationship(s). I'm tired of all these shows where the characters act like teenagers around each other.

Good to know that "I'm a shipper but I don't want to see them married" camp has at least 4 members, myself included. And it's the same with kids: I can't imagine them having kids at this stage nor do I want to see anything like that in the movie (for the record, I don't want to see any pregnancies no matter which characters/ship they would involve)

Having said that, if TPTB decide to confirm the ship by having Sam and Jack wear wedding bands I could live with it even if it doesn't fit with my vision of the characters.

[Skydiver]

If i were writing it (famous last words) I'd love stuff like i've said before. Matching rings, someone asking for 'colonel o'neill' and sam answers, a photo of their wedding sitting on a desk.

something that is there, that the shippers can squee over, yet isn't a vital part of the plot or storyline.

it's a mention and it's over. on with the movie

It reminds me of the novelization of Air, and there was a paragraph in there that listed who was where, what cam, daniel, vala and teal'c were doing. it never made it to the aired copy (and i have no way of knowing if it was originally in the script and cut for time, or input from the author)

it was there, it acknowledged the characters, but didn't change the plot in any way

[Frostfox]

I can't disagree that they can't write 'good' relationship to save their lives.

It's like the writers' sensibilities are still stuck back in high school (or that they get their romantic ideas out of Twilight)

There would be hope - for some - that the actors would be able to override what's written and do what they feel would work best for the characters (like they did with the forcefield dialogue in upgrades/D&C)

Non of their attempts at writing a convincing relationship have been stellar. I don't even watch Atlantis but some of what they attempted there made me cringe. I don't find such behaviour attractive in high school students, it's even less so with adults.
It's vaguely possible, I suppose, that both Jack and Sam are so emotionally retarded that they don't know how to behave around a normal adult? But given that Jack was happily married for 10+ years and that Sam and Pete looked like healthy adults in a healthy relationship, it's not very likely. And it's highly unlikely that they would be so well adjusted in other areas, people with such disabilities usually evidence other problems too.
So I'm reduced to blaming TPTB for putting over such a poor impression of their relationship. I wonder if Jack has smiled at her yet? He hasn't since 1997, not in the way he smiled in season one at his wife.

Thanks! That's a lot better



Oh yeah! I love angst in fanfiction but just NOT in the show. All the drama around "No please, don't die, I haven't told you yet how much I luuuuv you" just makes me want to cry in frustration. But I really don't think TPTB would do that. And I don't think the actors would do it either! And you're right. The forcefield dialogue (or more like non-dialogue), was well-played.

About confirmation... I'm not in the team of the "I want to see a ring or a change of name". I don't want to see them married, it would be weird and OOC in my opinion. And I don't want any make out like teenagers session either. A kiss, why not, but above all subtle and yet undeniable hints.
I mean, a reason why I love the pairing is because they're adults, and make grown ups decisions about their relationship(s). I'm tired of all these shows where the characters act like teenagers around each other.

So anyway, I love the pairing but still Stargate is not (primarly) about romance, and I'd still enjoy movie 3 without confirmation. I undersatnd why people are passionate about the pairing, but still, it's not worth, IMO, jumping at the throat of the one who disagrees with you, and certainly not worth deciding to DON'T watch the show anymore because we don't like the outcome of the pairing in question.

(sorry about the poor syntax, I am very tired)

Your syntax is better than mine!

I've always held that a lot of the fanfic writers do a far, far better job of making S/J convincing; they aren't bound by the constraints of the medium (middle of the road SF TV) and, because they will write both characters in the way adults in a relationship should be written. Just a shame I can't say that about the show's TPTB.

I find S/J fanfic too vanilla for my tastes, I used to love Jadzia/Julian and Odo/Kira in DS9 fandom, despite being a slasher at the core.

IMHO, one of the most powerful ship moments I've had the pleasure of seeing on TV. That scene was just... impeccably right.

This.

I happily admit that I'm one of those people who doesn't think that True Love must inevitably end in marriage or else the relationship is somehow less. Sure, marriage is extremely important to some people and that's more than fine. I just don't think Sam and Jack are one of those people that would find it necessary at this stage of their lives. I can see them living together - posting allowing, of course. Other than perhaps making it 'easier' in re to their jobs and regs, I don't see either pushing for marriage.

And make-out sessions are just a no-no. Not because they're in their 40s/50s. But because they're over 20.

Me too. If the story they come (came) up with is quality television, I'd enjoy it either way. I have to say, though, it would be nice if they finally resolved that storyline.

Don't get me wrong, I love positive, life affirming depictions of non traditional couples (including older ones) on TV. But it has to be done in a realistic manner, not a pair of middle aged idiots acting like teenagers. 'Make out session' is rife with all the juvenile baggage TPTB have lumbered Jack and Sam with so far, it's so far beneath what the characters deserve.

Good to know that "I'm a shipper but I don't want to see them married" camp has at least 4 members, myself included. And it's the same with kids: I can't imagine them having kids at this stage nor do I want to see anything like that in the movie (for the record, I don't want to see any pregnancies no matter which characters/ship they would involve)

Having said that, if TPTB decide to confirm the ship by having Sam and Jack wear wedding bands I could live with it even if it doesn't fit with my vision of the characters.

So Landry showing up with Cam's love child, thanks to some random bit of Asgard tech foolishly left lying about is right out then?

Whatever they come up with I hope it's brief and not a major plot point. SG1 ran for 10 years due to the strength of the team, not because of a poorly written, badly conceived attempt at a love story.

FF

[leiasky]

Non of their attempts at writing a convincing relationship have been stellar. I don't even watch Atlantis but some of what they attempted there made me cringe. I don't find such behaviour attractive in high school students, it's even less so with adults.

One of the few things you've said that I agree with!

There are all kinds of excuses why things happened the way they did on Atlantis (network interfearance, poor writing, poor chemistry) and likely all of them would have played a part in the inevitable outcome. When you have to force that square peg into the circular hole - it's just not going to work. Stop forcing and re-focus.

I wonder if Jack has smiled at her yet? He hasn't since 1997, not in the way he smiled in season one at his wife.

It's be against the regs (pre- season 9, that is) to smile at her the way a man would smile at a woman he loves. And however irreverent Jack is for rules, that is one he never breaks.

Don't get me wrong, I love positive, life affirming depictions of non traditional couples (including older ones) on TV. But it has to be done in a realistic manner, not a pair of middle aged idiots acting like teenagers. 'Make out session' is rife with all the juvenile baggage TPTB have lumbered Jack and Sam with so far, it's so far beneath what the characters deserve.

Yet again. I agree. They're grown adults who have had successful relationships (however long or short they lasted) in the past. Anything resembling juvenile behaviour would be incredibly out of character for the both of them.

But I do trust that Brad and Carl will write any sort of confirmation subtlely and believably.

Whatever they come up with I hope it's brief and not a major plot point. SG1 ran for 10 years due to the strength of the team, not because of a poorly written, badly conceived attempt at a love story.

FF

And yet, sex sells. Romance sells. Love stories sell. They may not be your cup of tea but they are for a lot of Stargate's core demographic. Otherwise, this kind of continuous/monotonous/tiring discussion would have ended years ago.

Believably integrating this kind of side storyline into the broader tale (10 years of action-packed teamy Stargate) takes talent. I think it was done remarkably well. Do I think and wish things could have been done differently? Yes. Do I want the third movie to have some sort of confirmation? Yes. Do I want it to be overt and take away from what we've come to know and love as teamy Stargate SG-1? No.

I trust Brad and Carl to do it believably.

[Rac80]

You know, i can see them the same way. happily co-habiting. if they do get married, i don't see a full out 500 guest formal affair in the academy chapel

what i see is a quick ceremony with a few friends present, or even the 'trip to vegas'

they're both low key people. and both have busy lives and careers and i thinkthe main reason they'd get married would be for simple legality and to, unquestionably, be the other's next of kin and DPOA (power of attorney)

Yep i see anything they did as very low key.

Good to know that "I'm a shipper but I don't want to see them married" camp has at least 4 members, myself included. And it's the same with kids: I can't imagine them having kids at this stage nor do I want to see anything like that in the movie (for the record, I don't want to see any pregnancies no matter which characters/ship they would involve)

Having said that, if TPTB decide to confirm the ship by having Sam and Jack wear wedding bands I could live with it even if it doesn't fit with my vision of the characters.

I will agree with that. -- kind of "late " for kids for them IMHO of course (I remember how hard it was to chase a baby in my 20's, I can't imagine doing it in my late 40's).

[Skydiver]

What they did in 200, so massively 'horrible' as far as i was concerned. A complete and total spoof and so massively OTT that it's just silly.

i see a lot of it like in Point of View....AU Sam didn't reveal that she was married and no one knew until Jack saw her in private. And, it's an element of the story that coulda been left out or easily altered 'my husband.....' and the story wouldn't have changed one bit. The Identity of AU Sam's hubby was not a plot necessity, just a plot happenstance.

That's how I'd see it in the movie, a happenstance that - if left out - wouldn't change the plot of the story.

neither Sam or Jack are overt people. They're not like Vala, who expresses her emotions at the drop of a hat and who has no filter on her mouth. Their relationship tends to be rather Teal'c'like. Not in your face, not obvious, just there.

I would want anything in the movie to be like that, to just be there.

[Petra]

So I'm reduced to blaming TPTB for putting over such a poor impression of their relationship. I wonder if Jack has smiled at her yet? He hasn't since 1997, not in the way he smiled in season one at his wife.

Actually he has. Maybe not in such an intimate way, but since they weren't in a relationship prior to Threads that's hardly surprising. But if you mean a friendly, I'm-happy-to-see-you-and-I-enjoy-spending-time-with-you/talking-to-you-smile like the one Jack shared with Daniel during SpaceMonkey scene then we've got plenty of this in the series. Off the top of my head: fishing invitation in Small Victories, their banter on bets in The Light, their banter during lunch scene in Proving Ground - in the last two he was *gasp* grinning!

And so there would be no doubt in your mind I hope that we'll get some scene in the third movie in which they do something fun/share a joke/grin at each other.

So Landry showing up with Cam's love child, thanks to some random bit of Asgard tech foolishly left lying about is right out then.
FF

[Ashizuri]

Actually he has.

I don't know about whether they were in a relationship or not (though it was a bit of a couple type moment until Daniel and Teal'c showed up), but didn't they smile at eachother while they were fishing in Mobieus Part II?

Seriously, I'm rewatching the show from the beginning, and maybe because I was too young to pick up on it in '97 (I was only 13) but there is a lot of flirty banter between them in season 1. I just finished Emancipation and found myself smiling at Jack/Sam quite a bit. Makes me wonder how much went over my head through the rest of the series.

[Aragon101]

I don't know about whether they were in a relationship or not (though it was a bit of a couple type moment until Daniel and Teal'c showed up), but didn't they smile at eachother while they were fishing in Mobieus Part II?

Seriously, I'm rewatching the show from the beginning, and maybe because I was too young to pick up on it in '97 (I was only 13) but there is a lot of flirty banter between them in season 1. I just finished Emancipation and found myself smiling at Jack/Sam quite a bit. Makes me wonder how much went over my head through the rest of the series.

I seem to recall discussion about how it was so obvious right from the beginning that TPTB wanted to put the two leads together (Jack and Sam). It kind of annoys me that it seems to start right from there, yet it truthfully goes nowhere until Divide and Conquer where it gets stopped short. It was pretty much there that i gave up on the ship. It was the same feeling i got from Riker being a Commander for so long, they weren't willing to push a limit, so it quickly became stagnant after that.

Season 1-4, i can tolerate Sam/Jack, after that really it feels so tired and the horse has since dessicated from the perpetual beating its taken that i feel it takes away from teh show rather than add anything. But like i've said, TPTB WANT Jack and Sam together, and there's nothign that will stop that.