My thoughts about Sam and Jack in the third movie (spec and spoilers)

[majorsal]

There's no fannish hierarchy that fans of one pairing are better than fans of another, that fans of a canon pairing are better, more of a fan or of greater worth than fans who aren't.

S/J is canon, but that doesn't mean it's fans are of any greater worth than D/J fans. Or any other pairing in fandom.

The nature of TV fandom is that fans are not passive watchers, they are active, they produce something, whether that is stories or art or just posts on a board such as this. They interact with each other, become friends and generally enhance each others watching of a show. That's what all fans do, it's what makes us come here. But all our opinions are equally valid, we are, in the end, all just fans.

FF

i'm not talking about 'fans' or 'fandom', i'm talking about a *ship* that's portrayed on the series, and one that i hope is confirmed (as in sam and jack are in a romantic relationship) in the 3rd movie.

that's what this thread is (supposed to be) about.

[Frostfox]

i'm not talking about 'fans' or 'fandom', i'm talking about a *ship* that's portrayed on the series, and one that i hope is confirmed (as in sam and jack are in a romantic relationship) in the 3rd movie.

that's what this thread is (supposed to be) about.

What I am saying is that if you are the CEO of MGM, then the matter of the "reality" of the canon nature of S/J matters. If you are a writer pitching a story at The Bridge Studios, it matters.
But if you are a fan, talking to other fans, the canon validity of S/J only adds weight to your argument if there is a consensus amongst your peers that a certain relationship has precedence over another.
There isn't.
Therefore being "real" is not going to give fans reason to think that S/J is any more deserving of a resolution than any other, real or not, relationships in the show.

FF

[Skydiver]

The whole 'which fan group is better' is a crap argument.

There is no way to definitively prove either side, nor should there be.

So, while i know fan preferences are a part of this thread, which group is 'better' or 'more deserving' or 'more right' isn't.

So let's keep the claws in and the conversation civil, and keep the general 'this fan group....' type of comments out of it please

[majorsal]

What I am saying is that if you are the CEO of MGM, then the matter of the "reality" of the canon nature of S/J matters. If you are a writer pitching a story at The Bridge Studios, it matters.
But if you are a fan, talking to other fans, the canon validity of S/J only adds weight to your argument if there is a consensus amongst your peers that a certain relationship has precedence over another.
There isn't.
Therefore being "real" is not going to give fans reason to think that S/J is any more deserving of a resolution than any other, real or not, relationships in the show.

FF

you are throwing things in that have nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

no matter how much you wish jack/daniel, a ship did not exist between them *in the series*.

sam/jack existed *in the series*.

now can we just discuss the subject on the thread? leave out other ships, or going down i-despise-them memory lane?

[leiasky]

Not really, it just proves that a small portion of fans that post on one forum are still interested a little. Even if every fan who posts on every forum wanted ship/confirmation/non confirmation it would still only be a tiny portion of the total fanbase. On line fans have always been a tiny, tiny minority.

Absolutely, you're right.

Those casual, not-so-obsessed fans which make up the majority of Stargate's viewership just. don't. care.

[leiasky]

sorry, their MUSES happy

these writers seem to get so focused on 'let me put forth my image' that they seem to pay little care if their images are true in any way, to the characters.

such as 'who cares if it's unprofessional for sam to snog pete, me wants that image to pull out on'

these writers continually sacrifice the characters to suit themselves and seem to place more importance upon their story than the characters in their care

Completely agree. Thankfully, writers that I like, and who I feel didn't butcher the Sam/Jack relationship as badly as the others in the series, have written the third movie script. I'm looking forward to seeing it onscreen.

[hedwig]

Completely agree. Thankfully, writers that I like, and who I feel didn't butcher the Sam/Jack relationship as badly as the others in the series, have written the third movie script. I'm looking forward to seeing it onscreen.

Me too.

[flynn1959]

but jack/daniel isn't a shown and done and *real* ship, whereas sam/jack is. there's a difference.

sam/jack IS a ship done *on* the series.

and seeing as it's been portrayed on the series since it's beginning, there are fans that would like to see confirmation in the 3rd movie that they actually got together.

But that is your opinion isn't it, yours and others yes, but still just an opinion. Sam and Jack are not a couple on the show, they are not shown together as a couple nowhere has it ever been said/written/shown ON THE SHOW that they are . Never. And all the wishful thinking, hoping, praying, pleading etc wont make it a fact. Fans ship/slash all possible variations, people see what they want to see, and that's just fine by me but I don't want to see it on the show. I don't see why TPTB should suddenly throw a relationship into this movie out of the blue, be it S/J or J/D or whoever.

Some people insist that Sam and Jack are a done deal, that it is cannon and yet cannot offer one shred of actual proof, not a single one . You say that Sam and Jack is a ship done on the series and yet go on to ask for confirmation - why? Why do you need confirmation of something that you say is an actual fact? If it's already cannon why does it need to be in the third movie at all?

[flynn1959]

Sorry posted that last one before reading the rest of the posts, moving on now.

My thoughts about Sam in the movie, I want to see the Sam we got in Ark Of Truth I liked her and Jack well, I want to see the Jack from the early seasons before he turned into a buffoon.

[XFchemist]

Some people insist that Sam and Jack are a done deal, that it is cannon and yet cannot offer one shred of actual proof, not a single one . You say that Sam and Jack is a ship done on the series and yet go on to ask for confirmation - why? Why do you need confirmation of something that you say is an actual fact? If it's already cannon why does it need to be in the third movie at all?

confirmation is just for us viewers, cos we want to see more details (like fishing ). but the ship is DONE! (unless you are blind...)

[flynn1959]

confirmation is just for us viewers, cos we want to see more details (like fishing ). but the ship is DONE! (unless you are blind...)

Fishing? Sorry you've lost me on that one. Haven't they already gone fishing, I know I've seen Teal'c fishing with Jack and Daniel and Sam, haven't I? Or am I going crazy!

And I'm not blind, perfect vision here, thanks. I must have missed the episode where it was shown ON SCREEN that the ship, and I assume you are talking about the supposed Sam and Jack ship, was DONE.

I know that some will say this is off topic but I'm not sure how it can be, here is a thread for people to talk about their thoughts on Sam and Jack in the third movie. Like it IS a done deal, like it IS cannon and yet how can it be if confirmation is still needed, if so many people don't see ship between these two characters, never have?

I will say again Sam and Jack are not together but if ANYONE can provide PROOF that they are I will change my mind. Proof from the show, from the actual show, from an actual episode, that was actually shown on the tv. Anyone?

[XFchemist]

Fishing? Sorry you've lost me on that one. Haven't they already gone fishing, I know I've seen Teal'c fishing with Jack and Daniel and Sam, haven't I? Or am I going crazy!

And I'm not blind, perfect vision here, thanks. I must have missed the episode where it was shown ON SCREEN that the ship, and I assume you are talking about the supposed Sam and Jack ship, was DONE.

I know that some will say this is off topic but I'm not sure how it can be, here is a thread for people to talk about their thoughts on Sam and Jack in the third movie. Like it IS a done deal, like it IS cannon and yet how can it be if confirmation is still needed, if so many people don't see ship between these two characters, never have?

I will say again Sam and Jack are not together but if ANYONE can provide PROOF that they are I will change my mind. Proof from the show, from the actual show, from an actual episode, that was actually shown on the tv. Anyone?

fishing?
well, you're not a shipper...so you can not understand this code...
this is a list made by JenniferJF...take a look!
http://jenniferjf.livejournal.com/1420.html

[flynn1959]

fishing?
well, you're not a shipper...so you can not understand this code...
this is a list made by JenniferJF...take a look!
http://jenniferjf.livejournal.com/1420.html

Ah, it's code - thanks.

I have seen similar lists showing Jack and Daniel are 'fishing' too, if you want to check them out! Actually, I think there's even one out there somewhere that shows Jack got together with Thor years ago!! Not that I ever doubted it. Lol.

[Petra]

I know that some will say this is off topic but I'm not sure how it can be, here is a thread for people to talk about their thoughts on Sam and Jack in the third movie. Like it IS a done deal, like it IS cannon and yet how can it be if confirmation is still needed, if so many people don't see ship between these two characters, never have?

So...using your logic there's also no such thing as D/V ship right? Just checkin'.

I have seen similar lists showing Jack and Daniel are 'fishing' too, if you want to check them out! Actually, I think there's even one out there somewhere that shows Jack got together with Thor years ago!! Not that I ever doubted it. Lol.

This is actually pretty interesting, I think you are the only person I've met who denies existance of S/J ship. People may not like it, not like the characters or the way it was written or the effect it had on the show but everyone agrees it is a canon. But if you don't see it, how do you explain the facts that everytime Jack went missing the writers made sure we saw Sam's reaction? That he was the one asking about Pete? That fishing invitations were always for her and he was taking others after she'd refused? (I know that he asked Daniel first in Nemesis but a) he must have known Daniel wouldn't be able to go b) he left as soon as he heard "no" while later he was trying to convince Sam despite her refusal) That they were attracted to each other and spending their free time together in BtS? That he kissed her in the episode following his confession that he cares for her more than he should? That he was told by Kerry that he shouldn't let AF regulations stand in their way and Sam heard the same thing from her father in the very same episode?

None of the above applies to Daniel or Teal'c or Thor. So I'm curious what is your take on these situations?

[Skydiver]

This is an interesting side topic, but let's please remember that the topic isn't 'is there validity to sam and jack', the topic is 'my thoughts about sam and jack in the third movie'.

The whole 'is it real/isn't it real' has been 'debated' 'yelled about' and fought over for the better part of a decade and I think it's safe to say that the two sides will never find a middle ground, because no matter what proof one side puts forth, the other side will refuse to accept it and vice versa. It's a circular and losing argument..

The title of this thread, 'my thoughts' means your personal opinion. And, oddly enough, since opinions are not fact, they do not need to be proven.

So, while I can see 'This is why I don't want it.....' and referring to the past may brush on the topic, a multi page 'debate' on the validity of said ship isn't the topic.

The premise of this thread isn't whether or not the relationship is valid, it's what people think about it being in the movie.