My thoughts about Sam and Jack in the third movie (spec and spoilers)

[Skydiver]

soooooo, about that movie

[Petra]

Jack's age has changed during the series. In brief candle, i believe, he makes a comment about being in his 40's, then there' the prop id that has his birthday in oct 52, but that doesn't jive with the lines from s1 so....it's like jack suddenly getting wings and being a pilot. jack became a pilot because the script said so.

and it also depends on how you define canon. to some, only SPOKEN words count because the prop folks often just make stuff up with little to no regard to what's happened before. To others, they term 'canon' anything on the screen. since the definition is relative, so is the outcome.

People will see what they want to see and interpret it the way that suits them.

What Sky said, with little correction: in Brief Candle Jack says exactly: "I'm forty", end of quote. So if he's 40 in 1997 then he was born in 1957 which puts him at 52 in 2009. I know that prop canon in Fragile Balance has his dob as 10/20/1952 but I'm one of those folks who believe that spoken canon takes precedence over prop canon, for the reasons Sky also explained.

And as for his ribbons & medals I am in no way expert but I've read that they are different each time he's shown in his dress blues, so they aren't very reliable. His service history changes depending on which screencap you use.

PS. Man, this new forum layout is weird..

[Skydiver]

jack's ribbons and medals being different/wrong is one reason why so few people trust visible props, the folks that put the ribbons on his uniform likely went with 'what looked cool' rather than what was right and proper. they probably didn't even google which ribbon was which.

they also didn't do the proper research to know that Janet, coming in as a MD, should have been a major from the get go, which is one reason she got promoted.

This lack of research has plagued the show since day one (remember the prop folks that got teal'c's tattoo on upside down during enemy withing?) and will likely continue into the third movie, when/if it's ever made

[flynn1959]

jack's ribbons and medals being different/wrong is one reason why so few people trust visible props, the folks that put the ribbons on his uniform likely went with 'what looked cool' rather than what was right and proper. they probably didn't even google which ribbon was which.

they also didn't do the proper research to know that Janet, coming in as a MD, should have been a major from the get go, which is one reason she got promoted.

This lack of research has plagued the show since day one (remember the prop folks that got teal'c's tattoo on upside down during enemy withing?) and will likely continue into the third movie, when/if it's ever made

So, I guess one of the things that people point to as 'proof' of a relationship between Jack and Sam i.e. a prop picture of Jack that she took with her to Atlantis means nothing. Good news for those of us who don't want any mention of S/J in this movie.

[Rachel-Kree]

soooooo, about that movie

... about the movie....

it would be nice if they get together or something like that, would break all those years of waiting of the part of the shippers including myself but i lost my hopes for a third movie in a while ago ... all i can do is wait for a good script in overall not just about Sam and Jack because the team isn't just about them but if there is a 'cofirmation' i woulnd't mind i could be happy i wasn't a shipper 'til i watch season 4 that season changed the way i watched them two ... those guys who make stargate (producers and w/e) had 10 years and 2 movies to show us something but didn't make it and those called 'hints' made me happy but there was always some doubts inside my head... honestly at this point i really don't know what to think or expect for the next movie, JM said there will be S/J scene i'm hopping it won't be like : Hello and Goodbye because i've seen that enough times... we need to see some REAL things going on!

[Skydiver]

So, I guess one of the things that people point to as 'proof' of a relationship between Jack and Sam i.e. a prop picture of Jack that she took with her to Atlantis means nothing. Good news for those of us who don't want any mention of S/J in this movie.

sorry flynn

there is a difference between there being in the script: Interior carter's office, on the desk are pictures of her former team mates, jack, daniel, teal'c, cassie, etc and 'carter holds up o'neill's id card'

in the first example - if it was indeed in the script that way and if i'm recalling the commentary it was - the writers instructed what was to be in those frames. However, i doubt precisely what was on the ID card was in the script, so the prop dept likely googled what one would look like and made it up.

that's why props can be tricky. because unless you have access to the script or ask the writers, you never know precisely what they've instructed to be there and what the prop folks have just made up on their own. (for example sam's birthday being on the screen in december, but then her birthstone changing to may's emerald. In the first situation the electronic prop folks just filled the screen with letters and words, in the second I don't know if they were told to make it an emerald or if it was written 'orlan has made sam a massive gemstone' and the prop folks picked what looked best or what they could find that photographed well)

the 'validity' of a prop is often dependent upon just how much detail the writers gave and how much the prop folks took upon themselves.

[leiasky]

What Sky said, with little correction: in Brief Candle Jack says exactly: "I'm forty", end of quote. So if he's 40 in 1997 then he was born in 1957 which puts him at 52 in 2009. I know that prop canon in Fragile Balance has his dob as 10/20/1952 but I'm one of those folks who believe that spoken canon takes precedence over prop canon, for the reasons Sky also explained.

And as for his ribbons & medals I am in no way expert but I've read that they are different each time he's shown in his dress blues, so they aren't very reliable. His service history changes depending on which screencap you use.

PS. Man, this new forum layout is weird..

I'm of this opinion as well. I take spoken words over a prop any day.

But I would absolutely not want, nor do I think its in character for Jack or Sam, to see them engaged in a teenage make-out session in the third movie. It should be a subtle acknowledgement in a small bit of dialogue or something simple as rings on their fingers. I trust Brad and Carl to do it right.

I hate the new layout. Meh. It doesn't resize if you've got a small monitor.

[Frostfox]

I hate the new layout. Meh. It doesn't resize if you've got a small monitor.

There is a new button, scroll down as far as you possibly can, down, down, further down, there, bottom left, says 'Variable Width' The boys get my unending gratitude for this button.

Now, back on topic -

FF

[leiasky]

Ohhh. Beautiful! I'd never have found it! Thanks!

Any idea how to make the threads start with the last post you looked at (instead of the page your last post was ON - Meh!) like it used to?

Oh, on topic . . . I really don't believe the confirmation will be anything more than subtle.

I do think this will be the last movie with the original cast and I think Brad is going to make the most of it.

[Egle01]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...2843368336.jpg

Geez, thanks for reminding me why I unsubscribed.

My thoughts - I don't care how the confirmation gets done. Sure, I'd prefer a kiss/hug/etc, but it needs to be real. And leave no doubts, unlike countless hints given post-S8. Kids and marriage should be left for fanfiction.

[jelgate]

Ohhh. Beautiful! I'd never have found it! Thanks!

Any idea how to make the threads start with the last post you looked at (instead of the page your last post was ON - Meh!) like it used to?
Oh, on topic . . . I really don't believe the confirmation will be anything more than subtle.

I do think this will be the last movie with the original cast and I think Brad is going to make the most of it.

You can't until Greg rebuilds the search feauture. I think fixing the upgrades is of higher priority

[Rac80]

Geez, thanks for reminding me why I unsubscribed.

My thoughts - I don't care how the confirmation gets done. Sure, I'd prefer a kiss/hug/etc, but it needs to be real. And leave no doubts, unlike countless hints given post-S8. Kids and marriage should be left for fanfiction.

Yep i want a real-no-questions-about-it-can't-say-it-isn't-there confirmation.... doesn't have to be too overt but a name change, marriage comment, "home" commnet that leaves us no doubts (Sam telling Jack as she leaves a room she'll "be home late" that would be ok!) but I really would prefer a big honkin' kiss!

[flynn1959]

sorry flynn

there is a difference between there being in the script: Interior carter's office, on the desk are pictures of her former team mates, jack, daniel, teal'c, cassie, etc and 'carter holds up o'neill's id card'

in the first example - if it was indeed in the script that way and if i'm recalling the commentary it was - the writers instructed what was to be in those frames. However, i doubt precisely what was on the ID card was in the script, so the prop dept likely googled what one would look like and made it up.

that's why props can be tricky. because unless you have access to the script or ask the writers, you never know precisely what they've instructed to be there and what the prop folks have just made up on their own. (for example sam's birthday being on the screen in december, but then her birthstone changing to may's emerald. In the first situation the electronic prop folks just filled the screen with letters and words, in the second I don't know if they were told to make it an emerald or if it was written 'orlan has made sam a massive gemstone' and the prop folks picked what looked best or what they could find that photographed well)

the 'validity' of a prop is often dependent upon just how much detail the writers gave and how much the prop folks took upon themselves.

So the writers intended Sam to hold up O'Neill's I.D. card as a sign of what? True luv? To show that Sam was a thief?? That they were 'so married'???

Sorry, Sky, things like that mean nothing, but hey if the shippers are going to be happy with something like that and take it as the all important confirmation I hope that is just what we get in the third movie. Heck Sam can even drool over Jack's I.D. card if the writers want her too.

[Skydiver]

So the writers intended Sam to hold up O'Neill's I.D. card as a sign of what? True luv? To show that Sam was a thief?? That they were 'so married'???

I never said that. What i said was that, for all we know, the script said 'sam holds up o'neill's ID card' and the script never said precisely WHAT was to be on that card. The writers never said 'his birthday is.....' They left it up to the prop folks. Just like they leave random set dressings up to the prop folks.

'Buttercup lives in a simple building, rustic and plain'...they dont' say what's supposed to be hanging where, what set decoration is where, they let the set decorators and prop folks do that. That's what their job is for.

If you read the script where we see Yu's throne room, the script likely described it as 'average goa'uld throne room with a distinct asian/chinese atmosphere' and that's it. If there were any props necessary for the script, that would be listed, but if not, then it wouldn't be.

Historically, the writers of the script often only dictate what's to be in each scene when what's to be in that scene is mandatory to the story. (like making sure if colonel mustard is going to shoot miss scarlet there's a gun in the room somewhere prior to him needing it to shoot her)

My point was and is, the reasons set decoration and propss often ignored and not counted as canon is because what you see on the set may not be what the writers wanted there. However, if the writers specify in the script 'camera pan across sam's desk, showing pictures of her old team mates and family' then that's what you'll see rather than a camera pan across photos of Kenny the prop guy's neighbors.

[Frostfox]

I never said that. What i said was that, for all we know, the script said 'sam holds up o'neill's ID card' and the script never said precisely WHAT was to be on that card. The writers never said 'his birthday is.....' They left it up to the prop folks. Just like they leave random set dressings up to the prop folks.

'Buttercup lives in a simple building, rustic and plain'...they dont' say what's supposed to be hanging where, what set decoration is where, they let the set decorators and prop folks do that. That's what their job is for.

If you read the script where we see Yu's throne room, the script likely described it as 'average goa'uld throne room with a distinct asian/chinese atmosphere' and that's it. If there were any props necessary for the script, that would be listed, but if not, then it wouldn't be.

Historically, the writers of the script often only dictate what's to be in each scene when what's to be in that scene is mandatory to the story. (like making sure if colonel mustard is going to shoot miss scarlet there's a gun in the room somewhere prior to him needing it to shoot her)

My point was and is, the reasons set decoration and propss often ignored and not counted as canon is because what you see on the set may not be what the writers wanted there. However, if the writers specify in the script 'camera pan across sam's desk, showing pictures of her old team mates and family' then that's what you'll see rather than a camera pan across photos of Kenny the prop guy's neighbors.

I'm in agreement with all this, however, I'm happy to go with the date on RDA's official webpage, others can do as they will, the prop makers must have had some kind of instruction from the production department. But we'll never know, it was donkey's years ago.

FF