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    Well, *that* was a bad ep. Starting with the fact that it was a follow-up to one of the most boring eps in the series.

    Then, half the episode was blowing up the Prometheus (no great loss, considering how many times it's been taken over by outsiders, including one one occasion by one person). That's it. Lots of things going boom, which I suppose appeals to some viewers (and, hey, I like a good explosion or two myself. But not when it overwhelms the ep). What it really means, however, from a storytelling perspective is that they didn't have enough story to actually fill out an episode.

    Worse was that TPTB couldn't have made every one look more like idiots if that were their intention. Including the SGC and the AF, because the way this ep was structured, it appeared as if SG1 were solely responsible for making the decision to do this mission. I don't care if Landry *is* in Washington, there would be a 2IC on the base who would have been running the briefing with Caine [sp] and making the decision. At the very least, we should have been told--and all it would take was one sentence--that this was approved by Landry and, for that matter, the head of Homeworld Security (someone we should know about but we still haven't been officially told).

    But then, the list is endless. Mitchell, a Lt. Colonel on a military base, looks to a civilian for authority to open the gate? I don't care how long Daniel has been there; it's not his call (yes, Mitchell could have looked to Daniel for confirmation that it *was* Caine, and that Caine was someone they could trust, but that was it).

    Then, Daniel decides, after being Mr. Rock-'em-Sock'em all season, to suddenly be "Let's Talk it Over" Daniel--at precisely the wrong time. He's well aware that these people had religious fanatic tendencies before this and now they are in the grip of the Orii. *And* they now have a great weapon that could take out their traditional enemy. He really believes they are going to be amenable to reason? Or that the Orii would actually let them turn the Rand?
    How many people didn't know that the Rand would *not* listen and that Daniel would be taken prisoner? Raise your hands--and then go back and re-take Remedial TV.

    This was just a ridiculous move, and it gave them an easy hostage.

    Meahwhile, back at the ranch, er, ship, they come out of hyperspace--and proceed *not* to follow their game plan. In part, of course, because Daniel went off to tilt at windmills and they hesitated--another reason why the talk session should never have been allowed. Settle on one option--talk or fight--and stick with it. So, despite the fact that they agreed before leaving for Caledonia that they would fire the instant they came out of hyperspace and it that failed, immediately jump away, they don't do either of them. Ending with the loss of a very expensive piece of equipment and 40 lives.

    (And you have to explain why Prendergast waited for Mitchell's OK to fire. He *outranks* Mitchell--he's a full bird--and he was captain of the vessel. Once they were on the ship, he was in command. It should have been strictly his decision to fire. In real life, since Daniel was not his primary concern, he probably would have fired right away. *That* was his mission.)

    Next, we have the dreaded "deus ex machina". The solution? Something we *never* heard about, in the 1-1/2 years since TLC. An EM pulse that occurred? And Sam was studying it? But they waited a year before asking her to study it? And I guess she was working on that in between working on the device they used in Beachead. (We also need to ask *why* they would find it that interesting at Area 51. Deathgliders have blown up before, all around motherships and alkeshes, without apparently damaging their power systems, so it isn't as if the pulse could be used against the Goa'uld. So, was Area 51 studying to use here on Earth? )

    Why was Teal'c flying second seat to Mitchell? He's the most experienced deathglider pilot they have; he should have been flying his own ship. But then they would have actually had to give him a *part* in the episode.

    Oh, and then we get to the "deal" Daniel "brokered". Are they kidding? Raise your hands, anyone who *didn't* know that the Rand president would *not* honor the deal and would power up the weapon after Mitchell pulled out. (You guys again? Sigh. Obviously *one* Remedial TV course isn't enough.) And everyone acts surprised! Daniel, Sam, everyone. Where have they been the last 8-1/2 years that this surprises them? Someone needs to let the "new" SG1 in on the secret that villains aren't usually honorable.

    Worse still was that TPTB apparently think the viewers are fools. If they tell us it was a great move, we'll accept it as that regardless of what actually happened. So Mitchell tells Daniel that he did a great job brokering the deal that got them home. GMAB. At that point, Caine was in control of the Rand--and *he* had no intention of detaining the Tau'ri. He would have let us go home even if the gate were still in Rand. The Caledonians also had no interest in keeping us prisoners and would have let us go--probably even given us transport to Rand if needed.

    So: Daniel's "deal" fell apart 40 seconds after he brokered it, and it certainly was *not* needed to get us home. But I guess the PTB think that if they say it was important loudly enough we will forget (1) that Daniel's insistence on going to try to reason with religious fanatics cost 40 people (on the Prometheus) their lives, along with the ship itself, and (2) that leaving the weapon intact resulted in the probable destruction of everyone on the planet.

    IMO, the PTB should be doing handsprings to have gotten a 1.5 rating for this one.
    "He's an amazing man. After everything he's done, he's still modest. Quite self-effacing actually. He even likes people to think he's not as smart as he is. Bottom line, he's an incredibly strong leader who's given more to this program than any man has given to anything I can imagine."


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      somebody is bitter

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        What a great episode! It would have been better if I hadn't fallen over half a dozen RIP Prometheus!!1! threads last week, but Mr W was unspoiled so I did get my vicarious thrill as it exploded

        Poor Pendergast. But he got a Good Death, and I like it when characters die well, even if they were good characters (I'm perverse that way).

        I did read through the thread, and if I missed it I'm really sorry - but why "Ethon"? does it mean something or was it someone's name?

        Madeleine

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          Originally posted by Madeleine_W
          I did read through the thread, and if I missed it I'm really sorry - but why "Ethon"? does it mean something or was it someone's name?
          I think it was a reference to Greek mythology. Ethon was a giant eagle born of two monsters who gnawed on Prometheus' liver.

          Banner by angelfire east

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            I loved this episode especially the image of the Prometheus blowing up. Shame that it was destroyed.

            Originally posted by DarkQuee1
            (And you have to explain why Prendergast waited for Mitchell's OK to fire. He *outranks* Mitchell--he's a full bird--and he was captain of the vessel. Once they were on the ship, he was in command. It should have been strictly his decision to fire. In real life, since Daniel was not his primary concern, he probably would have fired right away. *That* was his mission.)
            I totally agree with you.

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              I am afraid I am biased against this episode, as I didn't like the ep. this lot appeared in last time around.

              As soon as the ship dropped out of warp it was obvious that the prometheus was a gonner.

              Sorry, I just didn't like the ep.
              sigpic

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                it was a bit of a give away that the Prometheus was a goner, considering that "Ethon" was the eagle that eat the liver of the titan of the same name in mythology.

                Danny was in a bit of a pickle, he was trying what came naturally attempting to prevent global catastrophe, even though with each passing minute it was becoming apparent that Rand and Caledonia was going to destroy themselves, I hope they use the blueprints to augment the Daedulus and the Odyssey that I think has replaced the Prometheus, Ironic though that the latter went up in fire considering in Greek mythology it was the gift of fire that got Prometheus in trouble with the Greek Pantheon in the first place among other things.

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                  Originally posted by Jades
                  I think it was a reference to Greek mythology. Ethon was a giant eagle born of two monsters who gnawed on Prometheus' liver.
                  Wow, thanks for that. I was wondering why the name, and I love mythology
                  "Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand!" Mark Twain (1835-1910)
                  "But you see, just because we've been dealt a certain hand doesn't mean we can't choose to rise above it. To conquer the boundaries of a destiny none of us wanted. To try and retain whatever essential humanity we can." ~Edward from Twilight
                  Historic Connections Ancient history resources business my Dad runs...go check it out

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                    Did anyone else notice that they launched the F-302's out of a hyperdrive engine?
                    http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s6/graphics/611_11.jpg

                    see link for proof of engine.

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                      Amen to that.
                      Now would you kindly get out of your god's face.

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                        Just wanted to say that etho was the worst episode ever. I thought it was completely pointless. The fact that it was a standalone was stupide because there should have been hell to pay for sg1 going into that without recon of any sort. Could the trap have been any clearer. I just stole the plans for my govenrment's top secret new weapon. Oh they want to have a meeting with us let's go through the gate and talk things out.
                        Now would you kindly get out of your god's face.

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                          How exactly would they do recon?

                          There is 2 ways to get there, and only 2 ways: The Gate (which was guarded by the Rand) and the Prometheus (which would be detected by the weapon). In other words, they really can't do any recon work.

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                            I wish they have added the deleted scene where Daniel implies he and Cameron are lovers in antother dimension. well thats what i like to think anyway

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                              I don't think any gay relationships would really vibe well with the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
                              SQUEE like no one's listening.

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                                Okay, after a little time to allow emotions to cool, i've decided to analyse the two main contentious points in this episode ; the issue of going to war with Rand and who exactly is at fault for the destruction of Prometheus.

                                First, the anatomy of the death of our ship. Once the initial shot from the satellite was fired, it was all over. The systems required to retreat or even evade the next shot were down and couldn't be brought back up in time, with the addition of a merciless commander on the other end, meant that the engagement was decided the moment the beam first discharged. So let's recall the moments leading up to that shot.

                                Prommie drops out of hyperspace within range of the planet, begins an attacking run on the satellite and immediately locks onto the missing Dr Jackson's beacon and beams it onto the bridge. At this point, there is some debate amongst SG-1 and Pendergast as to whether to proceed with the mission and jeopardise Daniel's chances. Pendergast has no opinion but he does ask for the two Colonels of SG-1 to "make up their minds quickly". Mitchell remarks that Daniel knew the risks and orders the opening of hostilities.

                                Unfortunately, the satellite has detected their approach and begins powering up, essentially throwing the advantage of surprise that would have scored an easy kill. However, Daniel cannot be faulted for that ; as Mitchell said, he did (or should) have known that decision may have to be made, and it is in fact solely the fault of the rest of SG-1 that they did not take the time during the journey to consider the contingency and have a response prepared. SG-1 cost them surprise and an easy victory.

                                Following this exchange, missiles are launched and bounce harmlessly against Orii designed shields. This is the fault of Carter's analysis of the schematics, though she was well aware of the fact that those were early designs (and that later designs were been used), she dismissed too readily the possibility of shields. One could argue that she (and everyone, including Pendergast) had an unfounded presumption that the Asgard shields would be effective against Orii technology, but Carter herself should have known better - not only should she be aware that the Orii possess an incredible level of know-how (including the possibility of incorporating knowledge only Ascended have) but she should immediately have recalled the Ancient satellite found in the Pegasus galaxy and its ability to bypass Wraith shields. She made assumptions about the comparative level of tech they were dealing with that she should have known were not well-founded and she should have advised greater caution. This placed Prommie in greater jeopardy than it otherwise may have been.

                                But the final fault does not lie with SG-1. Their rash actions, indecision and ill-advised analysis of the situation contributed to the eventual outcome but they did not decide the outcome. Rather, the moment that did comes immediately following the failed attack, where upon hearing the news, Colonel Pendergast looks stunned, turns around and utters "now what ?".

                                Note that there was a brief debate over targeting on the surface below, which meant that Prommie had at least several seconds to respond to the failed attack. Mitchell had laid out the Earth policy of attacking Rand's asset, thus the ship and mission was then entirely Pendergast's responsibility. But rather than immediately giving the order to jump to hyperspace, he hesitated and asked for expert advice. He may not have realised the danger his ship was in due to flawed analysis and assumptions, but ultimately, he did not act at the critical moment. Now, i loved him as a character, he was a good captain and he bravely tried to redeem himself in saving some of the crew. But that does not change the fact that our beloved Pendergast is responsible for the loss of his ship.

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