Ethon (915)

[bitnine]

But, now that the two societies have destroyed each other...should we destroy the satellite or try and hook up an interface with it and use it?

I say take it apart piece by piece on a remote world and learn what they can about it, hopefully including some sort of way to modify shields to be effective against the technology. They just don't know enough about the technology and failsafes that the Ori could have built in to have it be worth the liability of keeping it around. Particularly since the Prior activated the device with his staff - who knows what technological modifications he made in doing so that simply aren't part of even the latest blueprints given?

[ShimmeringStar]

If people can't appreciate a real good sci-fi episode and just nit-pick at everything on screen like it seems people do on this fandom, they should really stop watching stargate and try <i>Home and Away</i> instead, or even find a boyfriend.

First jeb, welcome to the Gateworld's Forum. Darren set it up as a place for SG fans to come, find out about SG, and to *discuss* the show. As long as we're not disrespecting each other or cursing a blue streak, then we're all allowed to post our thoughts on the show, no matter what they may be.

Since we're from all over the planet, male and female, young and old with a myriad of personalities and backgrounds, we're not all going to share the same perspective and this kind of forum and this kind of episode thread is where we come to "talk it out" and find out how others feel. I may not share the same opinions as some (or many) others, but personally I enjoy reading their opinions. Sometimes I learn something I didn't know before, or am reminded of something I may have missed when I watched it. And I'm always amazed at the diversity and talents of the members of this board.

Re: nitpickers - in every fandom people are going to critique what they see, SG fandom isn't any different than any other fandom of the past 40 years.

Right, First post around here and probably last one too.

New ideas opinions and points of view are always welcome. Hope you do stick around and post more.

So jeb... since you called Ethon a "real good" episode, I'm intrigued - what were the parts that you liked about it? No really... I'm interested in knowing what hit home for you. Was it the SFX? A certain character? The ships (both spaceships and relationships)? Did you think anything could have gone down any differently?

[ShardsofGlass]

So what do you think will happen or maybe should happen to SG-1 now and in particular Mitchell after Ethon. I mean, you'd think there'd be an investigation at the very least. They lost the Prometheus and about 30 crewmembers, and didn't even destroy the satellite, which was their objective. Should there be a hearing for Mitchell, as leader (or Carter) or all of them?

[GatetheWay]

They WERE there to assert dominance over them. A culture with a superior technology was going to TELL a less-advanced culture what it could and could not do. That's dominance.




Oh, really? And when the Caledonians launch a land-based attack and roll over the Rand with their superior numbers, what is Mitchell going to do then?




It's only murder because a bunch of diplomats got together and decided it was murder. And for once, the soldiers decided that the diplomats were right.

Some "nuke 'em'-minded people like to mock Daniel's diplomatic attempts as pointless and futile, but it's diplomacy that made the rules of war what you understand them to be, instead of the "Kill everyone, let God sort them out" attitude of bygone eras.

But along with things like the Geneva Convention, other "rules of war" were established, like principles of national sovreignity and the inviolability of boundaries. Mitchell has no "right" to invade Rand air space or to tell them how to manage their foreign policy or what they may or may not do in their own defense. (He also has no right to start a war with another country on his own account. The US Constitution gives Congress the power to declare war and makes the President the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. Mitchell is sworn to uphold the Constitution, but he didn't ask anyone's permission to start a war with a foreign power. This guy is a loose cannon to end all loose cannons!)


Of course Rand is going to take an attack on their most advanced weapon as an attack on them and their interests! For starters, without it they stand helpless before the Caledonians. And you know that as soon as that satellite is inoperable, the Caledonians are going to launch an attack to make sure that Rand never has that kind of power over them ever again. They simply can't take the chance.

Plus, throw in the fact that Rand has the plans for the satellite -- they can build another one. And Caledonia also has the plans. They're probably scrambling madly to build one themselves.

Daniel was right on this one -- the only effective solution is going to be a diplomatic one. Mitchell thinks he can stop these people from fighting by taking away their toys. But there is no way to stop people from fighting if they really want to fight. And trying to stand between two groups who really want to fight is the most dangerous possible situation to be in. That's why the UN doesn't send in peace-keepers unless BOTH SIDES request it.

To attack a sovereign nation and then complain that "they don't follow the rules of war" is an inconsistent position. If the Prometheus had been following the "rules of war" in the first place, it would not have been launching an unprovoked sneak attack on another country!

But you know, if you start a war with an unprovoked attack on another country and then get beat up, you can't really cry "Foul!" when you find out they're not playing by your rules -- after all, you're not playing by theirs. When people abandon the rules of civilized behavior, the way is open to every kind of brutality. The Prometheus took the first step down that slippery slope, and I guess they found that it was -- well, slippery.

When the Caledonians launched their missile attack they were using their own tech and were not being influenced by anyone, unless you count SG-1 coming through the gate in the first place. But when the Ori got involved they completely changed everything. They helped Rand create something that was thousands of years ahead of them, something they didn't fully understand. With the missile attacks, at least Rand survived and they may have eventually been forced to come to the negotiation table but with this weapon ALL the Caledonians could have been annihilated with in a short amount of time, not just being a slaughter but genocide.

Something like this could never have happened if the Ori had not been involved and since the SGC felt guilty about being the ones who released them on the galaxy and also causing the war in Rand in the first place, they rightfully felt they have a responsibility to help these people and prevent the Ori from gaining new worshippers. True they could have built another one but at least the Caledonians would have time to respond.

Daniel was right to try a diplomatic way at first but even when he told them how the Ori really were Rand would not listen. How were they going to negotiate with some one who ignores you?

I agree with you that Rand had ever right to shoot Prommie in the first place but IMO killing a defenseless person (and in this case, dozens) when they just surrendered to you is just being universally nasty then being diplomatically correct. The look the general gave the president when he ordered the Prommie to be shot one final time was indication that this was bad form even on that planet.

This is no Pearl Harbor parallel at all.

[talyn2k1]

While they had no idea that the satellite had shields, I think the destruction of the Prometheus can be attributed to 3 key factors:
1. Mitchell hesitated in giving the firing order when they dropped out of hyperspace, thus allowing the satellite to raise its shields.
2. The weapon was obviously alot more powerful than they were expecting.
3. When the missiles failed to destroy the satellite, they didn't retreat back into hyperspace as they had planned before they even left the SGC.

While I don't think any individual was directly responsible for the loss of Prometheus, questions must be asked of the survivors regarding points 1 and 3.
Before anyone says, I`m not one of those people who blames everything on the new boy (Mitchell). I just think that as the commander of the mission he has some questions to answer.
But as he is a main character, I don't think it likely that anything will happen, even though an episode resolving this would be very good.

[Jonzey]

Mitchell decides to start a war with a foreign country while the boss is away in Washington. No hint of letting anyone know what he's doing; no wonder Daniel was shocked speechless. Mitchell has got to be the biggest boob he's ever seen. Ranks right up there with Kinsey.

Hang on. Daniel was on the planet for 3 days before Prometheus arrived. And I find it hard to believe that in that time they'd take the ship without permission. So Mitchell is not at fault.

Looks to me like another ''try to find another reason to ***** about Mitchell'' point. There's been so many of them.

[RobJones]

in theory, as much as i like the man, pendergast was in command, doesnt it fall with him? not saying he was a bad commander, just pointing out that he was the commander

[Mattathias2.0]

1. Did anyone else just feel extremely bothered that the Rand had such a weapon? I was so angry when it wasn't destroyed. No one should have a weapon like that. I sure hope the Ori haven't done the same for any other planets.

Even if they could easily rebuild another one, I think it needed to be destroyed. Heck post a ship there afterward to blow up any new ones before they get too far along reconstruction.

I was extremely bothered by it. I don't mean the Rand Protectrate in general, I mean that anyone, the Caledonian Federation included, on that planet posses such a weapon given that they are both dangerous to eachother, let alone others!

2. I know this will sound like restating the obvious but it smacks of an attitude completely opposite to the Ancients (think of the planet on 5x03 with Orlin!) Not only did they give these people advance tech, it wasn't for the defense of their followers but to let their followers conquer others on their own planet! It's strange to feel this agitated now considering I knew the show was setting up the Ori to be "evil" ascended beings, but to see them actually act that way.....AAAAARGH.

I got so frustrated with that...

3. Ok I'm sure someone is going to kill me for this...but here's a question, for those of you who were upset with the death of Lionel Pendergast, how did you take Janet's death 2 years ago? Personally, I've watched "every adventure...from the beginning" and enjoyed Janet's presence on the SGC but her death just didn't move me much.

However, Pendergast's death just outraged me through and through but I've yet to figure out why. Possible reasons: it wasn't spoiled/discussed to death? (I knew the Prometheus was going down but I didn't expect anyone to go with it) Or maybe it was because a vindictive enemy who had the option of NOT destroying a defenseless ship and its crew, did it anyways? Any similar thoughts or feelings?

I was very moved by Janet's death because of the way it happened... she died in the line of duty saving an airman during an ambush. I cried.

I hadn't expected anyone to go down with the Prommie either... I was shocked.

But moreover, I was pissed at the Rand for chosing to destroy the Prommie when it was completely defenseless against it...

I think Pendergast's death was NOT meaningless because he died trying to save members of the crew of the Prometheus from a 'vindictive' threat. He died like Janet did, in a way.

Mattathias

[AnotherEvilAlien]

I vote destroy. It's bad news.

Agreed. You never know with these Ori. They are sneaky sum*****es, and could have self-detonation systems in case any outside source comes in contact with them.

It's simply just not a good idea, even with the potential benefits of having a few.

[talyn2k1]

in theory, as much as i like the man, pendergast was in command, doesnt it fall with him? not saying he was a bad commander, just pointing out that he was the commander

He may have been the commander of Prometheus but Mitchell was the mission commander so the decision to fire ultimately rested with him. Also, as soon as the missiles hit the shield, he should've given the order to jump back to hyperspace as had been agreed prior to leaving Earth.
If there any military officionados out there who can confirm/discredit this statement, feel free.

Edited to add that Pendergast also should've suggested leaving after the failed first strike.

[RobJones]

He may have been the commander of Prometheus but Mitchell was the mission commander so the decision to fire ultimately rested with him. Also, as soon as the missiles hit the shield, he should've given the order to jump back to hyperspace as had been agreed prior to leaving Earth.
If there any military officionados out there who can confirm/discredit this statement, feel free.

Edited to add that Pendergast also should've suggested leaving after the failed first strike.

good point. tbh i just dont wana see mitchell blamed lol. its a damn shame though, seeing as how they were friends having served togather on board

[PG15]

Pearl Harbor? Prommie wasn't there to kill anyone one or insert their dominance over them. They were trying to prevent a an inevitable slauter that Jarod's people were going to comit. Yes, Prommie was on a stealth mission to blow up the satilite but that gives that president NO excuse to reject Prommies surrender when they were completely defensless. That's like if soldiers over run enemies line and the enemy soldiers put their hands up in surrender but the soldiers just cut them down with machine fire anyway. That is murder in the rules of war.

I agree that the PH bit was a little over the top. But one way or another, Prometheus started this.

After that, it was just a matter of the president being a normal human being, or an Ori-sympathizer.

Note how the president convinced the others to destroy the Prommie by quoting the book of Origin. The whole point of this is not just about the Ori weapon, but also the Ori follower's mentalities.

According to our rules, the president committed murder. According to the Ori's this was justice.

[Mesenet]

This ep was more like the old Stargate IMO

Sad that it's rating came in low for the earlier time slot. However, the eps for the past couple of weeks prior to this one were eh.

[Cpt. Obvious]

OMG they blew up the Prometheus! honestly i was in complete shock when it happened. i still can't believe it. ironically i have been watching episodes about the Prometheus all week (Prometheus, Unnatural Selection, Prometheus Unbound) and then this happened! have i mentioned that i can't believe it and i couldn't believe that they killed off Pendergast. definitely didn't see that one coming. yeah, i joined just so i could say i can't believe it. it was a good ep i thought. question though...did um, Commander Pernaux die? i don't think he did but i wasn't sure. oh and i love Jarrod Kane!

[KillerMercury]

Sad that it's rating came in low for the earlier time slot. However, the eps for the past couple of weeks prior to this one were eh.

I blame it on America's obsession with celebrities and humiliation.