1969 (221)

[SF_and_Coffee]

At the end of "1969" we see where the gate was. It was in a warehouse way on the other side of the country. If they'd emerged there, then the entire episode would have had to be different, because there wouldn't be a need for a long cross-country road trip, and young Hammond would have had to be something like a guard at the warehouse facility in order for them to meet him, etc. I agree that having it pop them out into the mountain was bizarre, but then again, even given what we know from later in the series, do the in-series physics allow for a gate to connect to itself through time? I suspect there's really no good way to make that episode consistent with the internal science of the rest of the series... and yet it is a good episode if you can overlook that particular bit.

(Note that this is an interesting subtopic for me, because I'm currently writing a fanfic that does involve time travel via a Stargate.)

[LtColCarter]

I've never quite accepted the "We appeared at the mountain complex because that's where the gate is in our time, and oh look it was with us for a few seconds and then vanished" thing.

It's like the early episode with the Goauld in a female host mating with humans so she can give birth to Goauld babies.

In both cases it seems to contradict stuff we saw later.

I tend to flinch when seeing those episodes, and sort of tell myself "This is only the gist of what happened. In the REAL Stargate continuity, it happened sort of like this, but the specifics are in line with what we later know." *

Some skilled fan should go back and rewrite both episodes ("1969" and the other...was it "Hathor"?) so we can finally see how both "really" happened. (And this is coming from an "ONSCREEN IS CANON!!!!" person. )

*Where would the gate have been in 1969 anyway? Where should they have emerged?

At the end of "1969" we see where the gate was. It was in a warehouse way on the other side of the country. If they'd emerged there, then the entire episode would have had to be different, because there wouldn't be a need for a long cross-country road trip, and young Hammond would have had to be something like a guard at the warehouse facility in order for them to meet him, etc. I agree that having it pop them out into the mountain was bizarre, but then again, even given what we know from later in the series, do the in-series physics allow for a gate to connect to itself through time? I suspect there's really no good way to make that episode consistent with the internal science of the rest of the series... and yet it is a good episode if you can overlook that particular bit.

(Note that this is an interesting subtopic for me, because I'm currently writing a fanfic that does involve time travel via a Stargate.)

I think what Niddle is saying is that if the gate was in DC...then that's where they should've appeared. I really didn't see any problem with them appearing in the silo... SF & Coffee...no I've never seen the gate connect to a past incarnation of itself.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Oh, I understood the question fine. However, my point was that if they appeared in DC, then that would have changed the entire episode, possibly in ways that would have made even less sense than having them appear in appearing in the mountain did.

What I'm writing at least doesn't involve a gate connecting to itself, though. Too bizarre to even try to work out a reasonable explanation that I could put into Sam's mouth... and yes, I do have her explain things to Jack and the others as I go. My rule is that if I can't write something that sounds at least plausible when she says it -- because I know Daniel, Hammond or someone else will ask if Jack doesn't -- then I don't make it happen, lol.

[LtColCarter]

Oh, I understood the question fine. However, my point was that if they appeared in DC, then that would have changed the entire episode, possibly in ways that would have made even less sense than having them appear in appearing in the mountain did.

What I'm writing at least doesn't involve a gate connecting to itself, though. Too bizarre to even try to work out a reasonable explanation that I could put into Sam's mouth... and yes, I do have her explain things to Jack and the others as I go. My rule is that if I can't write something that sounds at least plausible when she says it -- because I know Daniel, Hammond or someone else will ask if Jack doesn't -- then I don't make it happen, lol.

Ahhh...Oklie doklie...I understand now

[SaberBlade]

I've never quite accepted the "We appeared at the mountain complex because that's where the gate is in our time, and oh look it was with us for a few seconds and then vanished" thing.

It's like the early episode with the Goauld in a female host mating with humans so she can give birth to Goauld babies.

In both cases it seems to contradict stuff we saw later.

I tend to flinch when seeing those episodes, and sort of tell myself "This is only the gist of what happened. In the REAL Stargate continuity, it happened sort of like this, but the specifics are in line with what we later know." *

Some skilled fan should go back and rewrite both episodes ("1969" and the other...was it "Hathor"?) so we can finally see how both "really" happened. (And this is coming from an "ONSCREEN IS CANON!!!!" person. )

*Where would the gate have been in 1969 anyway? Where should they have emerged?

Earlier episodes don't contradict later stuff, they set precedent and it's the later episodes that contradict. Strictly speaking, 1969 or even later time travel episodes aren't being contradicted at all because we saw two separate time travel outcomes in 1969.

1. Travel through time, arrive exactly where you departed then time changes around you.
2. Travel through time, arrive where the gate is located directly in the past or future.

The second scenario has been the often used situation ever since.

[Noxbait]

Earlier episodes don't contradict later stuff, they set precedent and it's the later episodes that contradict. Strictly speaking, 1969 or even later time travel episodes aren't being contradicted at all because we saw two separate time travel outcomes in 1969.

1. Travel through time, arrive exactly where you departed then time changes around you.
2. Travel through time, arrive where the gate is located directly in the past or future.

The second scenario has been the often used situation ever since.

Oooohh! Very true and very helpful. I've been puzzling over this issue for a couple days now, not quite sure how to unravel the mystery. I'm glad you made it make at least a bit more sense! : )

[themyst]

I just watched this episode tonight. I was disappointed that it was not revealed what happened to Michael and Jenny. Did Michael enlist or not? Did they make it to Canada? I wonder why they didn't feel the need to wrap any of this up in the end. It was a pretty cute episode nonetheless, what with the references to Luke Skywalker and a galaxy far, far away and all.

[stupidoctopus]

I just watched this episode tonight. I was disappointed that it was not revealed what happened to Michael and Jenny. Did Michael enlist or not? Did they make it to Canada? I wonder why they didn't feel the need to wrap any of this up in the end. It was a pretty cute episode nonetheless, what with the references to Luke Skywalker and a galaxy far, far away and all.

So very agreed, haha. I actually tried looking Michael up to see if his issue was resolved anywhere in the series, but I guess not.

[LtColCarter]

So very agreed, haha. I actually tried looking Michael up to see if his issue was resolved anywhere in the series, but I guess not.

No, its one of those threads left hanging...

[stupidoctopus]

No, its one of those threads left hanging...

Which is actually surprising for Stargate (at least SG-1, haven't seen any of Universe or much of Atlantis yet). They usually tie up all loose ends, so things left unsolved will be solved, at least in a future episode. It was weird that this one wasn't.

Maybe he just didn't come up in time before the end of the series?

[SF_and_Coffee]

I think they just didn't think of him as important enough to the series. After all, he wasn't involved with the SGC, and wasn't a recurring character.

[stupidoctopus]

Agreed, that's what I figured. It's just that they presented his dilemma so powerfully I thought it would be resolved one way or another.

[LtColCarter]

Which is actually surprising for Stargate (at least SG-1, haven't seen any of Universe or much of Atlantis yet). They usually tie up all loose ends, so things left unsolved will be solved, at least in a future episode. It was weird that this one wasn't.

Maybe he just didn't come up in time before the end of the series?

Well, there were 8 seasons after the one that 1969 aired...so I think there was enough time.

I think they just didn't think of him as important enough to the series. After all, he wasn't involved with the SGC, and wasn't a recurring character.

I concur

[stupidoctopus]

Well, there were 8 seasons after the one that 1969 aired...so I think there was enough time.

I meant that, by the time they thought of it, they might have already planned the episodes to the end. It's just a joke, though; I don't really think that they'd actually put such a minor character back in.

[Dave2]

Does the whole scenario get replayed into infinity? In other words, there was no "first time" that we could identify and count that Hammond met them in 1969. That Hammond in the episode gets to be general, gives the note to Samantha, who then goes back and meets a young Hammond, who gets the note, who helps them, etc. ad infinitum.....??