Announcement

**jebus** · 30 July 2006, 04:10 PM

The ascencded were once human, it is very arrogent of them to view us as lesser beings, or "lowers" as they call us, they might even be as bad as the Ori. What the ascended ancients are doing now is bassically seeing that genocides are happening, they have the ability to easily stop it, and yet they just watch...

**Attilitus** · 30 July 2006, 04:11 PM

Well for my speculation to be even close to hitting the truth you would have to assume that the ancients have lied about the nature of the Ori's power. It is a huge "if" but it is a bit more plausible with daniel's newfound dislike for the ancients in the most recent episode. Perhaps the ascended Daniel grew to be philosophically opposed to the ancients in much the same way as the human daniel is now.

**Sauron18** · 30 July 2006, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Attilitus

Well for my speculation to be even close to hitting the truth you would have to assume that the ancients have lied about the nature of the Ori's power. It is a huge "if" but it is a bit more plausible with daniel's newfound dislike for the ancients in the most recent episode. Perhaps the ascended Daniel grew to be philosophically opposed to the ancients in much the same way as the human daniel is now.

He's not opposed to them, he's just like a kid who's parents aren't giving him what he wants.

**LORD MONK** · 30 July 2006, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Attilitus

Well note that the end result of their torturing and killing is long term peace without disturbance. The end result of the Ancient's philosophy is continued war and conflict.

Remember that the ancients do not ascend people... only the radical ones that care about mortals (Oma ect.) do.

Remember, The Ori have never Ascended their followers and yes the Ancients do ascend, but you have to do it on your own. Remember the time dialation ep. on Atlantis. That hole place was set up so people can go there and not in fear of the wraith and learn to ascend.

Spme one is always going to question authority and they should. If you believe a certain way you shouldn't be burned to death for it. The people in the Ori galaxy already know about the Ori hiding something from them that happened in the past and now they want to do that to Earth. Destroy everything oplant new seeds and change the history just like the Aschen did to that harvesting Planet.

**Attilitus** · 30 July 2006, 04:15 PM

Right my "out there" idea is only a plausible possibility if the ancients have been lying to us at least a little about the Ori.

**jebus** · 30 July 2006, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by LORD MONK

Remember, The Ori have never Ascended their followers and yes the Ancients do ascend, but you have to do it on your own. Remember the time dialation ep. on Atlantis. That hole place was set up so people can go there and not in fear of the wraith and learn to ascend.

No, the ancients don't ascend people either, they punish ascended beings who help others ascend, they just wont activly stop someone from ascending on their own, and how do you know the ori would act any differently in this regard?

**The Engineer** · 30 July 2006, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Attilitus

Well for my speculation to be even close to hitting the truth you would have to assume that the ancients have lied about the nature of the Ori's power. It is a huge "if" but it is a bit more plausible with daniel's newfound dislike for the ancients in the most recent episode. Perhaps the ascended Daniel grew to be philosophically opposed to the ancients in much the same way as the human daniel is now.

Ok, it's big "IF", because we don't have any actual proof of that.
But then again, why the need for being worshipped and on top of that for so many hours a day?

**Attilitus** · 30 July 2006, 04:18 PM

Well once again I bring you to the "big picture" argument. In the ancient's end scenario the vast majority of mortals suffer in war and conflict and a few select beings from a few select intellegent species ascend. In the Ori's end scenario they rule over mortals and bring complete peace and contentment to all.

**jebus** · 30 July 2006, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Attilitus

Well once again I bring you to the "big picture" argument. In the ancient's end scenario the vast majority of mortals suffer in war and conflict and a few select beings from a few select intellegent species ascend. In the Ori's end scenario they rule over mortals and bring complete peace and contentment to all.

Yes, the real question is which of these 2 groups are more evil?
The Ori will commit genocide to eventually lead to everyone worshipping them,
The ancients will stand by and watch genocides occer that they could easily stop, may have unintentionally caused, and treat like criminals those who try to help.

**The Engineer** · 30 July 2006, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Attilitus

Well once again I bring you to the "big picture" argument. In the ancient's end scenario the vast majority of mortals suffer in war and conflict and a few select beings from a few select intellegent species ascend. In the Ori's end scenario they rule over mortals and bring complete peace and contentment to all.

Peace is not what drives the Ori: War, power, maybe revenge, but no peace; conformity but no contentment to all.

**Attilitus** · 30 July 2006, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by The Engineer

Ok, it's big "IF", because we don't have any actual proof of that.
But then again, why the need for being worshipped and on top of that for so many hours a day?

Yep it is a huge IF but something to think about none-the-less.

I don't know why the Ori demand worship... it is probably because they do get power from the deal.

But the big picture result is that it does bring structure and contentment into the lives of those who serve the Ori and the power they gain is used towards defeating the ancients who are sheltering unenlightened mortals living in chaos and spreading peace and harmony through their rule as Ori.

After that little rant I feel the need to remind everyone again that I am playing the devils advocate for the sake of discussion.

**The Engineer** · 30 July 2006, 04:29 PM

They claim they do not demand worshipping but their actions say otherwise.
EDIT: Got to go now. Got to sleep, badly. Keep the fire alive like the fire of Celestis or burn the thread.

. Sleep. zzzzz

**Tok'Ra Hostess** · 30 July 2006, 04:46 PM

I don't think we have enough information yet to make this judgement, though my personal opinion is that I feel the Ori are evil.

What I don't get is how or when the Ori get their energy from their followers. Is it while they are praying? Is that why religion is their modus operandi?

(Trying to reason this through)The "Ascended" claim that one ascends through meditation while the Ori claim that one ascends as a gift - a reward for a life of devotion.

Now, if (in the SG universe)a person dies with no knowledge of how to ascend, like, say, Janet Fraiser, what becomes of their life energy when they die? Does it dissipate into the ether, unused and unusable to beings on a higher plane?

If this is true, then what difference does it make either way if the Ori take energy from people? If there is no afterlife or higher plane for Janet, and none for the Ori believer because all his life energy goes to feed the Ori(if Orlin is to be believed), then aren't both ascended factions the same - from the POV of the human?

Why don't the Ori just swarm the near dead for their energy? Why bring the whole religion rigamarole into it?

**sword1986** · 30 July 2006, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Ltcolshepjumper

Let's spill it out for you. The Ori claim to be gods. They promise their followers enlightenment yet they sap the life from them instead, only to gain more power. Their followers, mislead into believing they will ascend, instead die meaningless lives, in submission to beings who are not all-powerful. How is that not evil? They invade another galaxy just for the sole purpose of destroying the Ancients and to enslave innocent races. How is that not evil? Would you say that genocide was good? Because that is exactly what happened to the Sodan.

what if the ancient are just lieing to us that the ori dont offer followers enlightenment and the reason why the ancients would do this is so we would fight there battles for them

**padr49904** · 30 July 2006, 04:57 PM

Ok the Ancients might lie to us neither of them liked each other. The Ori are evil they heal their people so they can sacrafise them in battle. They just hate it when they don't have followers they have a lot in common with the Goa'uld if you ask me. But the Ori could kill the goa'uld in an istant. And the Ori kill your people just so you like them. The plague kills people then they come to help you after a number have died(kinda like the aschen).

Announcement

The ori are bad... why exactly?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment