Season 10 walks a fine line...Spoilers

[Betelgeuze]

I think it's sad that TPTB can't make references to mainstream religions, for fear of offending the public, and losing viewers. It shows how narrow minded people can be, that they are offended by use of their religion in a scifi show.

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

As requested, quotes from Daniel Jackson re Goa'uld impersonation of ancient gods:

From Children of the Gods:

HAMMOND
Then who's coming through the Stargate?

DANIEL
The Gods.

HAMMOND
What?

DANIEL
Not as in 'God' God. Ra played a God, the sun God, he borrowed the religion and culture of the ancient Egyptians he brought through the Gate and then he used it to enslave them. You see he wanted the people of Abydos to believe he was the only one.

From The Enemy Within:
DANIEL
Teal'c is right. To them, we're nothing. Less than nothing, I mean…think about it; they've taken on the roles of our ancient gods. What does that tell you?

food for thought....

[Anjirika]

I actually think that it is time they crossed this line- and they already have. Look at season 9. The Book of Origin can be directly compared to the bible. The priors can directly be compared to the missioner of the early christian history. The crusade into our galaxy to purge the evil can be directly related to the crusades in our own history.

They may not be making any direct references like calling the Judaic-Christian god an Ancient, that would be stupid because people would get their backs up instantly. But with what they are doing, they are commenting on the Judaic-Christian religion in a very subtle way. People see the fanaticness of the Orii followers, the way the worship with out question and in my humble opinion I think that this will make the general populous who watches this show to think about their own religion and whether they know why they are following 'GOD'. Alluding to something is much more powerful then actually stating it.....especially when the masses still believe in something.

[Madeleine]

I think it's sad that TPTB can't make references to mainstream religions,

But they do. They have.

It shows how narrow minded people can be, that they are offended by use of their religion in a scifi show.

I don't think that shows anyone as narrow minded. for a start, it's not like there's a great song and dance about how awful Stargate is for dissing people's religions. There isn't. But on the other hand, there's regularly a song and dance about why Stargate isn't spending more effort to offend major religions. Seriously. I can count on the fingers of one hand the people who're miffed by the (mis)use of their religion on stargate, but I could find you several dozen on this forum alone who've expressed a dissatisfaciton with TPTB for *not* being more offensive to Christianity.

It doesn't 'show how narrow minded people can be, that they are offended by use of their religion in a scifi show', IMO. It shows that a few individuals have a yen to see a bit of controversy. That's all.

[Betelgeuze]

Yes, they have made references to mainstream religions, but not direct ones. My point is that if TPTB had portrayed Yaweh and Allah as Goa'uld there would have been protest. Most people are okay with indirect references to their religion, but when it's their gods that are portrayed as evil aliens they are offended, yet they do not mind having other gods portrayed in the same manner. That's what i meant by narrow mindedness.

[Madeleine]

Yes, they have made references to mainstream religions, but not direct ones. My point is that if TPTB had portrayed Yaweh and Allah as Goa'uld there would have been protest. Most people are okay with indirect references to their religion, but when it's their gods that are portrayed as evil aliens they are offended, yet they do not mind having other gods portrayed in the same manner. That's what i meant by narrow mindedness.

Are you in with the line of thinking that seems to be current in this thread; that no 'real' gods have been shown, that every goa'uld with a 'real' god's name was only an impostor who aped the 'real' version? If you aren't then that's your call and I can't really argue this any further because I see things so very differently. (The quotes everyone's given are really interesting.)

But if you DO feel, like me, that no actual religions have been dissed because the only 'baddies' among the 'gods' are those that only pretended to be Osiris/Baal/Marduk etc, then I have to ask: how would you envisage the portrayal of Allah or Yaweh in Stargate? Would you want parity (Scenario 1) an impostor Allah or an impostor Jesus or Elijah, who came along after the actual religion was formed and tried to insinuate himself with the locals by pretending to be a religious figure like Ra and co did, or would you want it to go further, (scenario 2)and have the 'actual' Mohammed or Mary or someone being a goa'uld? If you want (1), I'll accept your point as legitimate, but i'll disagree with it cos I think most religious folk would have no probs with someone pretending to be a god or prophet of their religion and then get exposed and destroyed, as happenned to the goauld. But if you're after (2), I have to say - why are you asking for major religions to receive *worse* treatment than the other religions that have already been referenced?

[Betelgeuze]

I'm with those who think that the Goa'uld took the roles of gods invented by humans i order to gain power. This is was i think made clear in the series. It may be that in the SG universe the actions of the Goa'uld became part of the mythology, the gods were invented first, but the religion in part was shaped by the Goa'uld

I do not have a particular desire to see any of the mainstream gods portrayed as Goa'uld. But if they were, i think that it would be interesting to see in what part these mythologies were influenced by the Goa'uld. The actions of Yaweh discribed in the bible are very much like the actions of the goa'uld, mass murder, genocide etc.

I disagree with you that religious people would not be offended by such a portrayal, especially if these religions in the SG universe were heavily influenced by the Goa'uld. It is my experience that some religious people tend to get offended by any critisism or use of their religion in fiction.

[Deevil]

I disagree with you that religious people would not be offended by such a portrayal, especially if these religions in the SG universe were heavily influenced by the Goa'uld. It is my experience that some religious people tend to get offended by any critisism or use of their religion in fiction.

emphasis mine.

As you said, some people get offended. Some people get offended if you J walk, some people get offended if you wear a cap. Some people get offended if I say chicka.

People will get offended over everything, but what some people get offended by, not everyone will. And to assume that is to expect narrowmindedness, not to actually know of it.

[PG15]

Some people get offended if I say chicka.

How dare you!

[the fifth man]

People will get offended over everything, but what some people get offended by, not everyone will. And to assume that is to expect narrowmindedness, not to actually know of it.

Indeed! I just can't see TPTB offending me at all. Afterall, this is just a tv show. Some people need to realize that fact.

[Mattathias2.0]

I have always believed that the Goa'uld impersonate Gods we already believed in, and then exploited the people for personal reasons (wealth, power, etc).

I believe Stargate makes a bash at blind faith, rather than Faith itself.

From Babylon:
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MITCHELL: *the Jaffa lower their weapons, he enters* thank you. Ok I’ll make this quick… that prior represents a race of ancients…yes. But believe me when I tell you they are not the ancients you wanna worship…

HAIKON: the prior has healed our sick…caused our crops to grow as if by magic. Why should I doubt the power of the Ori?

MITCHELL: look…their power is not what you should question…its how they use it…anyone refuses to worship them and they die…and I’m not talking about a few non believers here and there…I’m talking about whole planets wiped out.

HAIKON: and I should simply take your word for this?

MITCHELL: you want to believe my people are godless and inferior… go right ahead…but we have never needed proof of our god’s existence in order to believe in them… faith…it was your faith that sustained you for 5,000 years…not the ancients themselves…don’t throw your history away for a bag full of magic tricks…
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Clearly, as Mitchell states here that he believes in God, and doesn't need proof of it. He explains to Haikon not to "throw your history away for a bag of magic tricks".

From Origin:
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DOCI: The book of Origin says, those who seek the path of enlightenment must NOT be led astray.
DANIEL: Right. See, that can be interpreted a number of different ways. I think maybe I know what the Ori are, ah... who they are. Um, and I’m not denying that they’re powerful beings, but if I’m right... they’re not gods. They’re like the Ascended beings I know. They simply have a greater understanding and knowledge of the universe.
DOCI: What is a god, but a being that is worshipped by those beneath? Is great power, knowledge, understanding not enough for you to revere the Ori?
DANIEL: Respect, yes. Certainly. But that doesn’t mean I’d murder innocent people in their name. I guess what I’m trying to understand is whether the Ori have spoken to you directly and told you to worship them, or whether you’ve misinterpreted some evidence you found along the way and developed this religion on your own. I can’t speak for everyone in my galaxy, but in my own humble opinion, I don’t believe that any individual or society can achieve enlightenment through fear-mongering and force and servitude no matter what power is presented as evidence. That’s something the Ascended beings I know seem very clearly to understand. Don’t get me wrong, we should all be trying to better ourselves, if Ascension is the ultimate end we’re all trying to achieve then so be it, but we should all be allowed to get there or not of our own free will. Kill me for saying that, but that is what I believe. Nothing you say or do will ever change my mind.
DOCI: Come.
DOCI: The Ori hear you.
FIRED UP DOCI: We do not require blind faith. Only that you believe what you see and know to be true.
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The Doci (possessed by the Ori) clearly states they don't even require blind faith, only that people believe what they see and know to be true.

However, what we have clearly seen in the Milky Way, such episodes as Babylon, The Powers That Be and The Scourge, is that the Ori still profess themselves as the "true" Gods, when they are infact Ascended Altera who stayed in their home galaxy, lie to their people (which is why there is an underground in the Ori Galaxy(ies), and destroy all unbelievers. I think this would qualify as impersonation of God(s), which the Goa'uld did as well, not very much differently.

The Goa'uld had slaves to build ships, temples, mine naquadah, and gain riches. The used their Jaffa to incubate their young, and had wars with eachother to gain more power all the time.

The Ori send Priors to planets, if people chose not to follow they destroy them (Goa'uld did too, with their Jaffa), and perform "divine" powers to show people they should follow them (Ori heal people), and use their followers to build, as The Ori Followers did build the Ships, the Priors merely activated them.

What fine line?

Mattathias

[Lightbane]

people are narrow minded most of these narrow minded people are either fantics, devout followers or Ori type zealots.

Ra = Sun god revered by ALL ancient egyptians the Goua'ld Ra took this guise as all Egyptian Pharoahs were the living incarnation of Ra, thus making it easy for him to control the populace

Thor = Allthough not the head god of the Norse Pantheon, Thor was seen as pretty much the wisest (The Asguard Thor was the Protected Planets protector in some cases even though Odin was the head god of the Norse) pretty easyto get respect and get people to listen to him

Anubis, Aphohis = Underworld gods, Egypts underworld was not a very nice place Anubis was said to eat the unworthy's heart and torture these unworthy for all eternity, as Aphophis was just a minor god i don't know anything about him

Hathor = Goddess of Marriage and Love, she used some sort of chemical (maybe something to do with her being a Goua'ld queen) to control men and Hathor's smiting abilties when angered is known to have been compared to Hera(Greek Goddess of Marriage) when she found out about Zeus' affairs with various mortal women.

Baal = Very nasty deity Head God of the Phonecian Pantheon, archaeologists have discovered many altars loaded with the bones of young children around the age of 5-8 and have been identifed to be Carthaginian, Roman and other people that lived in the Middle East at the time

Marduk = Marduk was the Babylonian/Sumerian God of Destruction and War, Sumerian or Babylonian priests would load up these furnaces of Copper and Bronze tiles which when heated for 2 days reached temperatures of 1,000C the priests then offered up hundreds of people at a time to be incinerated and offered up to Marduk to sate his hunger for these type of sacrifice

as stated in SG-1 when they go the ziggurat to look for the russian team

Daniel: It says here that Marduk was so terribly vicous that even his own priests hated him so they put him in this with the creature (i know thats not totally what he said but pretty much)

Anicents/Alterans: SGA compares them to angels, comparison to Christianty

Where in ANY of that does the writers mock, exploit or just generally abuse religions??

[Sauron18]

Didn't we already have this debate end it peacefully??

[Deevil]

no debate ends peacefully... they just die and get ressurected on Judgement Day (or any other day of the week)

. I wouldn't worry, most people are peaceful about this debate.

[Lightbane]

Didn't we already have this debate end it peacefully??

ok.... i wasn't aware of any unspoken rule saying the debate's over, i was having my opion