Season 10 walks a fine line...Spoilers

[Davidtourniquet]

Stargate has never said, these "gods" are false. The program has said that the Gaoul'd came to Earth and portrayed themselves as them. I mean it's quite sensible in terms of enslaving the masses: portray yourself has someone they fear and this is what has happened here. So why wont they portray God or Allah in the same way. Because God/Allah are portrayed in the religions perspective books as father-like figures not the torturous figures that say Ra, Anubis. Apophis etc are. Basically what the others said, just worded differently.

[Cam_Mitchell]

Rite i know you guys r going to think im really sad but im a cristian and wether or not they take a dig people are just going to have to liv with it. They are not directly adressing any religions as such. so i really think anyone who is getting stressed ova such small things should really calm down and just enjoy the fun...

Sorry if i offended anyone no offence was intended..

[SylvreWolfe]

Stargate has never said, these "gods" are false. The program has said that the Gaoul'd came to Earth and portrayed themselves as them. I mean it's quite sensible in terms of enslaving the masses: portray yourself has someone they fear and this is what has happened here. So why wont they portray God or Allah in the same way. Because God/Allah are portrayed in the religions perspective books as father-like figures not the torturous figures that say Ra, Anubis. Apophis etc are. Basically what the others said, just worded differently.

Excuse me??? Every {Mod Snip} episode calls these gods false. And I don't even know where to begin addressing the rest of that {Mod Snip} The followers of these gods do not see them as torturous. They aren't in their religions. And, read the bible, the biblical god orders followers to murder non-believers, to kill every living being in villages and FLOODED the planet because he had a hissy fit. That is a father figure??

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Excuse me??? Every damn episode calls these gods false. And I don't even know where to begin addressing the rest of that crap, and crap it is. The followers of these gods do not see them as torturous. They aren't in their religions. And, read the bible, the biblical god orders followers to murder non-believers, to kill every living being in villages and FLOODED the planet because he had a hissy fit. That is a father figure??

We get your point. But, to clarify the shows views, they aren't saying that these gods are false. They are saying that the Gouald, or any other being based off of an existing religion, are impersonating these gods. And, to clear up your major point, they are calling the Goauld, who the Jaffa think are gods, false gods. The Goauld dont know the religion of Earth. They Goauld apparently liked certain religions and tried to adapt their ways to them(although they,the Goauld, were still cruel)

[ReganX]

So it is ok to bash religions because not a lot of people follow them? But not ok to go into christianity because a lot of people follow it?? Helll, they have even gone so far as to MOCK the names of these gods and intentionally mispronounce them in doing so. These gods are STILL worshipped, in this country and worldwide.
I don't know how you know it hasn't been intentional to bash the pagan beliefs, but I think it is intentional. All it would take is ONE line, by Jackson, to establish that these aliens are pretending to be pre-existing gods, but they haven't done it.

You've got a point there. I'd say that it is just as bad to bash a religion with one follower as it is to bash one with a billion followers.

I would have liked to see someone say something that showed that the Goa'uld definitely took the personas of the gods of pre-existing religions rather than being the basis for those gods, maybe Ra was worshipped in Egypt before Goa'uld Ra came along and, when he took over the body of his host, he picked his brain for knowledge of the god Ra and realized that pretending to be Ra would be a good way to control the population.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Im quiet sure that it was said by Daniel in one episode of SG-1. Cant remember it though.

[TameFarrar]

Hi Gang
Ok things have been reviewed to remove the Off-color language, the personal remarks and anything ELSE that violates the GateWorld Forum rules regard RESPECT, ON-Topic and decency.

So we will give this thread another chance to continue its discussion regarding whether or not TPTB will cross the line in being more explicit about its religious themes.

If at any time this thread degenerates back into a place where foul language, personal remarks made at other posters and or inflammatory remarks made about the REAL people producing the show begin again... It will be pulled and be done.

It IS possible to discuss anything without resorting to persoanl attacks or taking things to a personal level

Thank You
TameFarrar
GateWorld Staff

[Jackie]

back to the original question, I do see the same thing. They have gone from egyption mythology to norse and few in between I believe to a reflection of our current state with christians and islam. I like that they are exploring that avenue, but at the same time I wish they would continue to explore others more...like the romans and the greeks. Hindu and buddist are facinating religions and there are many long gone religions they could dive into, south america would be intresting.

I hope they expand the mythology to include ones we are not familiar with in the future. (ps as far as the highlighted pink remarks...I believe all hail usaf did say that he/she was sorry for offending this person. So, why was she fighting?)

[the fifth man]

I know I posted in here earlier. And it wasn't an attack of any kind, but the post disappeared. What the heck??

Oh well, I'll just repost it, then. I don't feel TPTB are crossing any kind of line this season. As a Christian, I see no reason why Christianity can't be the subject of stories for this show. Other religions have been touched on, so why not Christianity?

[Deevil]

Thanks Tame!

Now, I have been reviewing some episodes to see where Daniel or someone says that the Goa'uld are taking the guise of the Gods.

Here's some quotes

From Seth

DANIEL: Actually, I was talking about what's being projected. It's like a family tree of the ancient Egyptian gods.

JACOB: Actually, of the Goa'uld System Lords.

So, this implys that it is about the System lords, not about the Gods themselves.

and finally, the one piece of evidence that I think proves that the Goa'uld were impersonating the gods is.

Jolinars Memories

Daniel; Of course it makes sense. The Goa’uld impersonating the Devil would naturally create a place like Netu. Netu is from the book of Am-Taut which is kind of how-to guide to passage through the ancient Egyptian otherworld regions. And many of those regions are described as dark places with pits of fire home to hellish monsters and damned.

And there we go, I have provided what has been asked...

[Madeleine]

Mocking? In order to mock something, I think you need to have a bad intention towards it. Exploit would be a better word.

I think that's exactly the right word. And although 'exploit' is usually a word with negative connotations, I don't think it needs to be used in the negative sense here. (Not sure which way you intended it - either way it's legitimate comment, just it fits my personal view of things when used in the non-disapproving way ). I think it's a writer's job to exploit real world themes and issues and twist them into the fabric of thier dramas.

The premise of the movie and the show is that there are aliens who take the identity of gods in order to exploit the masses. Rather than seeing this as exploiting the religions the stories and gods are based upon, why not see this as a metaphor, set inside a world that doesn't require too much explanation and would appeal to people who do not necessarily come from a science fiction background? To borrow from several cliches, Stargate has never bashed a religion. It bashes what people do with the religion. Season 9 just takes that one - or several - clearer step forward.

Again, you're spot on. Stargate has only once taken an opportunity to comment directly and generally on *any* religion and that was in Demons, when Teal'c's little exchange with Sam about the Christian Deity and the Bible comes off as pretty respectful. Of course, the hypocrite Kinsey gets short shrift when he invokes God's name, and plenty of other religious folk appear, both benign (Oma's monk) and malign (Priors). But no actual religions that get practiced today get bashed; the real Osiris that the goauld impersonated has never been portrayed, and worship of the real Thor has never been portrayed. Since it hasn't been portrayed, it's hard to see it being mocked.

[Madeleine]

There was a good quote from Daniel that I just can't remember, but it refers to the Badness of Sokar: he says something like "of all the gods in all the religions he could have picked, he chose to impersonate the Devil". I'm pretty certain he said 'impersonate'.

I've never got the impression that the goauld were supposed to be the inspiration for anyone's religious beliefs in the Stargate universe; only that they found the pre-existing beliefs had archetypes that would suit their purposes. Thor and the Asgard for instance; knowing the stories that were told about Thor and Freyr and Freya and co I cannot see the Asgard inspiring any of that. They just arrived on Earth and gave themselves the names and appearances of these gods as a shortcut to being listened to and revered without any prime-directive-breaking sort of interference with human development.

[Deevil]

Got it Madeleine...

Jolinars Memories

Daniel; Well, of all the gods he picked to impersonate he chose the Devil.

[GreyFox]

aka lucifer

[sgeureka]

That has not been established in any episode I have seen. I have asked people where they do establish this, but I have yet to be told any episode where they say it is aliens pretending to be the pre-existing gods.

For example S3's Demons:

DANIEL (cont’d) : Most Goa’uld that we’ve encountered that have enslaved ancient human populations have taken on the roles of those cultures’ deities. RA, APOPHIS, HATHOR from the Egyptian pantheon…

O’NEILL : Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got it.

DANIEL : Well, if these people were already Christians when they were taken from Earth, that suggests this Goa’uld is…is playing…

O’NEILL : God? As in GOD God? It’s a bit of a stretch, don’t you think?

I also want to know why it is ok to do this for 8 years, to other religions, but not to the *main three* monotheistic religions. If it is a slap to the *main three* then it is a slap to the religions they have already used.

Joe Mallozzi was asked this question in the Ask Joe thread when gateworld forums was still integrated into delphiforums, so I can't back up what I remember here. But Joe said something like that TPTB were very well aware of Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. TPTB had already included Buddhism and Christianity in "Maternal Instinct" and "Demons"; and TPTB were not sure if people believing in Islam could handle fictional references to their religion. Those weren't exactly his words but that was what he wanted to get across. After 9/11 I'm not so sure whether I wanted to make any references about any one of the big religions on TV, so I think that's the reason why TPTB have stopped to talk about them.