Season 10 walks a fine line...Spoilers

[All hail the USAF]

Actually, Deevil, they have bashed other religions. They have used names of real gods that are still worshipped and put them in the *false gods* plot arc they use. They have taken the names of real gods and twisted the belief system and worship of them into this *aliens posing as false gods who enslave, torture and murder*. That is bashing other religions.
And if they use those religions, then they should also deal with the *main three* directly.

It was my understanding that the Goa'uld took the names and personas of pre-exsisting Gods, and not that the people made them into Gods...if anything their bashing and twisting Aliens not the religions

[SylvreWolfe]

It was my understanding that the Goa'uld took the names and personas of pre-exsisting Gods, and not that the people made them into Gods...if anything their bashing and twisting Aliens not the religions

That has not been established in any episode I have seen. I have asked people where they do establish this, but I have yet to be told any episode where they say it is aliens pretending to be the pre-existing gods.

I also want to know why it is ok to do this for 8 years, to other religions, but not to the *main three* monotheistic religions. If it is a slap to the *main three* then it is a slap to the religions they have already used.

[beale947]

the title of the thread should continue with 'in the sand'.

Seriously though, i agree instead of dancing around it they should concentrate on the main three properly, but they wouldn't before they would get complaints fom christans saying its blasmphmay against god etc. etc.

[All hail the USAF]

That has not been established in any episode I have seen. I have asked people where they do establish this, but I have yet to be told any episode where they say it is aliens pretending to be the pre-existing gods.

I also want to know why it is ok to do this for 8 years, to other religions, but not to the *main three* monotheistic religions. If it is a slap to the *main three* then it is a slap to the religions they have already used.

Well the basis of this goes back to the Movie, the original Goa'uld was Ra, when the show was picked up they simply kept going with the Egyptian mythology and then expanded to the next of kin (i.e Greek and Norse Mythologies). It hasn't been a calculated attemp to call these religions fake or based in evil, it has simply been a continuation of the story which was stated with the motion picture, and as the show has progressed they have slowly worked there way westward and I feel will soon "cross the line" which so far they have not gotten to yet, not out of a respect they didn't have for the other beliefes but simply because they hadn't gotten to them yet. However, yes flat out saying God/Jesus is an Ori/Ancient or that Muhammed was a Goa'uld or Budah was an Ancient ect. would cause more problems simply because those are the most "popular" religions, some 80% of people on the United States alone are a member of one of those 3 religions and out of that, probley a great many people watch SG1 or SGA, so....it makes practical sence for those who make the shows to be wary to address them

[SylvreWolfe]

Well the basis of this goes back to the Movie, the original Goa'uld was Ra, when the show was picked up they simply kept going with the Egyptian mythology and then expanded to the next of kin (i.e Greek and Norse Mythologies). It hasn't been a calculated attemp to call these religions fake or based in evil, it has simply been a continuation of the story which was stated with the motion picture, and as the show has progressed they have slowly worked there way westward and I feel will soon "cross the line" which so far they have not gotten to yet, not out of a respect they didn't have for the other beliefes but simply because they hadn't gotten to them yet. However, yes flat out saying God/Jesus is an Ori/Ancient or that Muhammed was a Goa'uld or Budah was an Ancient ect. would cause more problems simply because those are the most "popular" religions, some 80% of people on the United States alone are a member of one of those 3 religions and out of that, probley a great many people watch SG1 or SGA, so....it makes practical sence for those who make the shows to be wary to address them

So it is ok to bash religions because not a lot of people follow them? But not ok to go into christianity because a lot of people follow it?? Helll, they have even gone so far as to MOCK the names of these gods and intentionally mispronounce them in doing so. These gods are STILL worshipped, in this country and worldwide.
I don't know how you know it hasn't been intentional to bash the pagan beliefs, but I think it is intentional. All it would take is ONE line, by Jackson, to establish that these aliens are pretending to be pre-existing gods, but they haven't done it.

But again, if it isn't intentional, it is only a fictional tv show, and they are only pretending to be the gods then covering the monotheistic beliefs would just be following in line.

I wonder why there are some people who think it is ok, and *just part of the story* to continue mocking and bashing the pagan beliefs, but get their panties in a knot when the show even comes close to *attacking* their precious christianity. If I shouldn't be offended by the pagan aspect, then christians shouldn't be offended if they ever grow the nads to cover christianity.

[Deevil]

Actually, the anicent religions they have created false gods out of, are those religions that are not actively worshipped anymore... And I think it was somewhere in the first season that Daneil established they have taken the guise of the gods...

Actually, one of the better Gods that establish this was when they encountered Sokar.

Incidently, tell me where they have continued to mock the pagan belief system, because I have not seen that happen.

Helll, they have even gone so far as to MOCK the names of these gods and intentionally mispronounce them in doing so. These gods are STILL worshipped, in this country and worldwide.

{Mod Snip} They have not intentionally misprounced the names (Jack not withstanding), and interestingly enough - there is little knowledge with the ancient gods exactly how the names are pronounced and often spelt. There is no academic standard for this.

There is a difference between using the idea of ancient religions (which, let's face it, every Sci-Fi has done, not to meantion fantasy shows and everything. Ancient religions are fair game, and that is not something that is singular to Stargate), then using as a part of the overall arc an current active religion.

[SylvreWolfe]

YES, those gods and those religions are STILL worshipped and practiced today. {Mod Snip}
And you haven't seen how they mock the pagan religions. Oh, how about calling their gods false aliens who enslave and murder followers. Would you like a list?
Anubis
Apophis
Ra
Baal
Marduk *pronounced Marduke, not Marduck, like O'Neill pronounced it.

Why is it ok to mock these beliefs? {Mod Snip}

They have not established in any episode that they are not calling pagan gods false, they have not established that the aliens are pretending to be existing gods. And all it would take is just one single, simple line.

{Mod Snip}

P.S. NOT every scifi show has mocked the ancient gods and religions.

[Deevil]

SylvreWolfe - {Mod Snip}It wasn't an affornt.

Secondly, considering that those religions that they are using are not actively being practiced as they were in their intial inception (and that's what Stargate refers too), my statement is not incorrect. If you are so offended by what they are doing, why does it make it okay to do to every other active religion today? Because it isn't your religion?

Yes, Jack has a habit of pronouncing things wrong, I am damned sure you have too. But I am also sure you see it as something different and unoffensive because you yourself have done it. {Mod Snip}

I have in no way belittled your beliefs, I just happen to actively disagree with many of your assertions. That is not in anyway belittling your beliefs. They are very much different ideals.

{Mod Snip}

P.S. NOT every scifi show has mocked the ancient gods and religions.

Name one, maybe 2 that they haven't refered to the ancient gods in same way that is wrong.

And Daniel does state that the Goa'uld are impersonating the gods of Egypt. As I said, it is more clear with the episode of Sokar, but he still does say it.

[jenks]

I hope they write a storyline with Muhammed in it and see if SciFi has the balls to air it...

[All hail the USAF]

YES, those gods and those religions are STILL worshipped and practiced today. But thank you for mocking my beliefs.
And you haven't seen how they mock the pagan religions. Oh, how about calling their gods false aliens who enslave and murder followers. Would you like a list?
Anubis
Apophis
Ra
Baal
Marduk *pronounced Marduke, not Marduck, like O'Neill pronounced it.

Well Anubis and Apohpis were both Gods of the underworld and death so saying protraying them as Gods who torture and kill their followers at their wim isn't to far off...As for Ba'al (Which by the way you didn't seen to have a problemn with them mispronoucing, it's in fact Bail or Bah'al, if your going to be picking about pronunciation go all the way) numerous digs in the middle east have found alters to Baal with hundreds of child bones, in fact the worship of this particular God demanded human and child scarifice on an almost daily basis, so again, protraying him as a kill isn't far off either, same goes for Ra who had Hathor kill thousands of his own followers simply for making a joke on him, so much so that she could swim in their blood, Marduk (which by the way could be pronounced "Marduck" by some in Western Europe simply because of their accent not because of a disrespect for the cultue) I unfortunetly don't know enough about this God to have an opinion. However I think you are focasing on the wrong thing when getting upset of the mispronounciation, O'Neill does so because he is uneducated, or at least less so then the other members of the team (I.e. Daniel and Teal'c, who by the way pronounce them to your standards) and so now I pose this question...Have you never mispronounced a word?

[Deevil]

I agree with you All hail the USAF. You make some very good points.

Ancient Gods often asked for some sacrifice, were not patient with desenters and tended to be somewhat manevalent. It was not a stretch to make someone who takes their guise as a manifistation of evil. (notice I said "take their guise", not that they are a direct representation of said gods.)

Add to that, I do find it interesting we haven't seen many (or any of memory serves) 'living' gods of Anicent Egypt (Pharoahs) portrayed as evil...

[GreyFox]

imho religion= myth till i see something definate

[All hail the USAF]

I hope they write a storyline with Muhammed in it and see if SciFi has the balls to air it...

something tells me thatd be dangerous

[Betelgeuze]

I have not seen any stories based directly on Christianity or Islam. Season 9 seems to focus on religious fanaticism and exclusionism. It is of course difficult to portray these aspects of religion without having people associate these aspects with Christianity and Islam.

As mentioned before, conception without sexual intercourse, is not exclusive to Christianity. So this isn't a direct link with Christianity, altough most people will see it that way.

Also the Holy Grail has it's origins in Celtic mythology.

I do not think that TPTB will write stories based directly on Christianity or Islam, this would be bad for viewing rates. It is more likely that they will continue to use the negative aspects of religion, and that they will base stories on myths that can be seen as part of Christian mythology, as well as other mythologies.

[Pitry]

Mocking? In order to mock something, I think you need to have a bad intention towards it. Exploit would be a better word.

The premise of the movie and the show is that there are aliens who take the identity of gods in order to exploit the masses. Rather than seeing this as exploiting the religions the stories and gods are based upon, why not see this as a metaphor, set inside a world that doesn't require too much explanation and would appeal to people who do not necessarily come from a science fiction background? To borrow from several cliches, Stargate has never bashed a religion. It bashes what people do with the religion. Season 9 just takes that one - or several - clearer step forward.

As for mispronounciation, once we get a time machine (or, with lack of, Janus' Puddle Jumper) and can go back in time and see exactly how these names are pronounced, everyone's guess is acceptable. True, there are traditions that would claim something should be pronounced one way and not the other, but we never really know. And at any rate, Jack also mispronounces fictional words such as Goa'uld. Is this the sign of disrespect to the mythology of the show? Or a character trait? Or simply the actor's accent?