Is SG1 Committing Genocide? ('Arthur's Mantle' SPOILERS)

[Bragi]

No.

Because it's not really killing them.

It's like standing in the doorway and telling the person trying to get through to go home, shut up, nobody wants you anymore.

It'd be mean if they were benign... but they're not, they're kinda evil and all. So screw them.

[mahram]

yes the gould tried to destroy earth, but they didnt try to destroy the entire human species in the galaxy. Humans however wanted to exterminate all gould around the galaxy.

Taking out the Goa'uld was more self defense, considering that the Goa'uld were always attempting to erradicate Earth.

[mahram]

well she olma was in pain b/c she didnt have the power to rectify her mistakes. The only thing she could do was help others, but she was forced to watch the gould and anubis enslave and kill millions of humans. If you dont tell me thats a type of hell, then I dont know what is. To have the power to stop a monster, but to force to watch them commit crimes, thats hell.

The Ascendeds that Daniel joined, briefly, remain-with one or two minor exceptions like Orlin-on their own plane of existance. Once SG1 gets a chance to use the weapon the Ori will be kept on that same plane of existance.

The Ascended are not dead. They're not suffering. They choose to remain on that plane of existance, so it's quite clearly not like being dead. Using the weapon doesn't even come close to killing them. Nor does it even come close to causing them to live in a vegatative state, like you compared it to, in another post. Was Oma Desala in some kind of hell, or in pain, or feeling as if she was dead? Were all the Ascendeds who inhabited her 'diner'? No. In fact, the Ascendeds have themselves made a rule that they don't permit themselves to come onto our plane of existance. Are they then commiting mass suicide? No, again.

As for the Ascehen-SG1 did not wipe them out either. First, the Aschen was a collective of planets. The worst that would have happened is the Aschen dialed the black hole from one planet, and it was lost to the black hole. All their other planets would have been completely safe. So their society, their culture, and their people would not have been 'wiped out'. Not to mention-the Aschen were supposed to be so much more advanced than we are. We managed, with our comparatively less advanced tech to not get destroyed when we dialed into a black hole-I'd certainly expect the Aschen to be able to save themselves if we could.

[metroid]

mahram SERIOUSLY stop double posting, you can use the freaking edit button or simply answer two posts in 1 reply.

And your still just uttering pointless remarks that aren't even related to the topic.
Oma could have done anything about Anubis ANYTIME she wanted, Daniel was merely the breakthrough that caused her to fight Anubis.
Sure she wasn't happy what happened but it was her own fault and she fixed her mistake by not letting it continue.

[Deevil]

Umm, the Oma situation was akin to living with your mistake. That isn't anything more then a self-proclaimed hell, because she chose not to do anything about it. Then in Threads she chose to do something about it.

Also, you can look at what happened to Oma as a type of prison. She can look out, but she can't interact and fix the exact problem.

It all comes back to a prison, not to death.

[Deejay435]

well she olma was in pain b/c she didnt have the power to rectify her mistakes. The only thing she could do was help others, but she was forced to watch the gould and anubis enslave and kill millions of humans. If you dont tell me thats a type of hell, then I dont know what is. To have the power to stop a monster, but to force to watch them commit crimes, thats hell.

Oma was being punished by her own kind. It was made very clear that she couldn't rectify her mistake regarding Anubis as a punishment for breaking her society's rules. She chose to abide by that punishment, and 'walk the fine line'. Her choice.

But being Ascended, in and of itself, did not cause her pain. Her pain was a result of her own society's rules-which the majority of them follow, and for good reason. (See Daniel's discussion with Orlin in TFH.)

And the point you keep missing is that EXISITING ON THE ASCENDED plane is not painful, not dangerous, not harmful in any way, shape, or form. So forcing the Ori to exist only on the plane they chose to exisit on in the first place can in no way be compared to genocide.

[freyr's mother]

Daniel was quite clear that the device doesn't kill them, it just neutralizes them. It creates interferance on their wavelengths that prevents them from interacting with or affecting this plane of existence. They are still alive, just unable to exert influence or power in our reality. So there is no genocide, where they are trying to commit genocide is in Pegasus against the wraith.

I dont remember this ever being stated. I could be wrong. What ep was it in and can anyone provide a transcript for that ep?

[spg_1983]

I dont remember this ever being stated. I could be wrong. What ep was it in and can anyone provide a transcript for that ep?

I believe it was the begining of "Camelot" or perhaps later in the episode. Daniel did specifically say though that it does not kill them, only neutralize them.

[Jackie]

Spoiler:

Has SG-1 committed genocide when they sent Merlin's weapon to wipe out the Ori? Do all the Ori deserve to "die"? In essence SG-1 has neutralized, killed, wiped out--all the Ori because the Ori were trying to make us worship them. Instead of finding if there was an upper level of government that controlled the Ori, SG-1 sent a weapon to wipe them out. They are reportedly dead now. So, was it self defence or Genocide? Was there any proof that ALL the Ori were evil? Granted, Cooper presented us with a faceless enemy that really know nothing about. The enemy was flawed from the start. But did we have the right to KILL ALL the Ori?

Please feel free to debate this question but refrain from attacking one another verbally.

[Daniel Jackson]

We don't know the Ori are dead. (I haven't seen "Dominion.") Assuming they are, SG-1 did indeed commit genocide. However, it was commit genocide or let the Ori conquer the Milky Way by converting people to Origin and killing anyone who doesn't. I'd rather SG-1 commit genocide.

[Londo Molari]

I guess the mass killing of sentient life forms is indeed genocide.

If the Asurans are considered sentient life forms, then it was also genocide when they had their "surgical strike" in Atlantis.

But we have to consider that
- we're fighting a very alien and different form of life
- who have very serious/advanced resources to kill all human beings
- have shown their intention and willingness to kill all human beings

In such a case, I don't know... I guess its about survival... so maybe that makes it ok. Actually considering the fact that they are a SUPERIOR ASCENDED life form, maybe that takes away any and all guilt. It would be like a lion killing a human. The lion isn't responsible, its dumb

[Daniel Jackson]

This wouldn't be the first time SG-1 committed genocide. Remember when Carter, Jacob/Selmak, and Ba'al whiped out the Replicators?

[Ugly Pig]

Genocide? No. They only killed the bad ones; the ones that presented a serious threat. There are a whole big bunch of good guys from their kind that SG-1 did not and would not touch. They're called the Ancients.

And I think we all know that they only did it because they had to. It's an "us or them" situation, same as with the Replicators.

[Jackie]

This wouldn't be the first time SG-1 committed genocide. Remember when Carter, Jacob/Selmak, and Ba'al whiped out the Replicators?

Oh, I forgot about the replicators. That would be genicide to some because the life for was self aware. To others it would not because they were machines. I guess that goes to the cylon debaters.

So, IF they have committed genocide...how do you truely justify that. The Ori weren't out to kill ALL the humans. Just the NONBELIEVERS.

So, does the punishment fit the crime? The Ori were out to concur, yes and destroy all non believers and use the power of prayer to (Somehow) get stronger. But does that justify sending a weapon that would wipe out all of them?

I wished they had more time to develop the Ori. It would have been intresting to see if the Ori themselves had a 5th column.

[Daniel Jackson]

Genocide? No. They only killed the bad ones; the ones that presented a serious threat. There are a whole big bunch of good guys from their kind that SG-1 did not and would not touch. They're called the Ancients.

Genocide can also mean whiping out a civilization, so whiping out all Ori would be genocide.

Oh, I forgot about the replicators. That would be genicide to some because the life for was self aware. To others it would not because they were machines. I guess that goes to the cylon debaters.

If they have independent thought and are self aware, they're alive as far as I am concerned.

So, IF they have committed genocide...how do you truely justify that. The Ori weren't out to kill ALL the humans. Just the NONBELIEVERS.

Whiping out entire planets is unacceptable.

So, does the punishment fit the crime? The Ori were out to concur, yes and destroy all non believers and use the power of prayer to (Somehow) get stronger. But does that justify sending a weapon that would wipe out all of them?

Yes. Any Ori who do not support killing nonbelievers better get out of the galaxy while they can.