Is SG1 Committing Genocide? ('Arthur's Mantle' SPOILERS)

[Ancient 1]

Technically speaking, I don't think it's genocide if one kills all their enemies in an act of war that this same enemy started. However if some fled and then we systematically hunted them down for the sole pupose of destroying them, you might have a case. But hey, were not in Kansas anymore and the Geneva convention means nothing. Those limp biscuits at the UN are too feeble to enforce it anyway. In essence the US and stargate allied countries would be policing themselves...and we already know what they're gonna do.

[PG15]

But its still genocide. Like I said it would be like us killing all the muslims in the world for 911 or all the germans for world war II. Do we kill all the germans b/c of the nazis. Of course not. Or in rawanda where the entire tutsi/huta people went on genocide killing spree. Do we justify killing all the tutsi or all the huta. Its still morally wrong. it reminds me of the ds9 episode, where the federation gave a plague to the founders. They even thought it was genocide.

Those analogies doesn't hold since not all of the Germans wanted us all dead, and not all of the muslims wanted us dead, etc.

The Ori acts as a single, unrelenting entity that's gonna destroy us if we don't bow down.

So screw 'em, I say! If it's genocide, fine. They started it. Sometimes ethical problems really stand in the way of survival (but this only apply to very very VERY unique situations, like this one).

[Deevil]

Interesting question. But since the device doesn't kill them, only prevents them from functioning in this universe I have to say it isn't genocide. It's akin to imprisonment.

[JanusAncient]

Genocide, I don't think it is, but when dealing with the Ori collective, I should hope so, given the fact that they are ascended beings, and they have potentially forever to act, they just might find a way to counteract this technology, and return even worse than they are now. But, I also feel that the Ori believe it to be, an us or them situation as well, when it comes to the Ancients.

[mahram]

but how do you define killing. If I beat a man to the point where he has no brain functions, cant move, talk, notta, forever, but he can still breath. Is that killing a person. To an orii, restricting him in an upper dimension, unable to move to other dimensions, is basically killing an orii. Since we dont know at that level of evolution, what death is to them.

No, it's not genocide. We're not wiping out the Orii. We're denying their followers the ability to tap into the Orii powers. If they want to go on preaching Origin, they can do so without Orii powers. They won't be able to inflict plagues on other societies, etc and so forth.

As for whether the device's usage on the Orii is genocide... or putting them in hell...

... the alterans are, for the most part, not coming into our realm. They're happy as can be. Are they in hell too? I think not.

[mahram]

thats the problem we have ethics and laws. We dont know if all of the ori want us dead, it could be a majority of them do, but we are willing to wipe them out. Its not the first time sg1 has committed genocide, remember how they wiped out the ashen. And joe wanted todo an episode dealing with Sg1 in a war crimes tribunal dealing with wiping out of the ashen. Hopefully we will see it during season 10. We didnt know if all the ashen wanted us dead, but we wiped them all out. How about the replicators. Or how about the gould when sg1 had the gould killing plague. They would have used it, if it didnt kill all jaffa to. Genocide is genocide, regardless of reasons.

Speaking about the german analogy. We were willing to wipe out Japan with nuclear weopens if they didnt surrender. Remember the truman quote Truman promised a "rain of ruin" if Japan did not surrender immediately. When people are at war, henious crimes are committed.

Those analogies doesn't hold since not all of the Germans wanted us all dead, and not all of the muslims wanted us dead, etc.

The Ori acts as a single, unrelenting entity that's gonna destroy us if we don't bow down.

So screw 'em, I say! If it's genocide, fine. They started it. Sometimes ethical problems really stand in the way of survival (but this only apply to very very VERY unique situations, like this one).

[Deevil]

By definition, if someone is still breathing, and their heart is still beating they are still alive.

If the Ori are trapped in a higher dimension, they are imprisioned in that dimension but they are not dead. They cannot exit, but does that mean they cannot see? Hear and feel?? Nope, just means that they are trapped behind at least temporarily inpentarbale walls.

[PG15]

thats the problem we have ethics and laws. We dont know if all of the ori want us dead, it could be a majority of them do, but we are willing to wipe them out. Its not the first time sg1 has committed genocide, remember how they wiped out the ashen. And joe wanted todo an episode dealing with Sg1 in a war crimes tribunal dealing with wiping out of the ashen. Hopefully we will see it during season 10. We didnt know if all the ashen wanted us dead, but we wiped them all out. How about the replicators. Or how about the gould when sg1 had the gould killing plague. They would have used it, if it didnt kill all jaffa to. Genocide is genocide, regardless of reasons.

Speaking about the german analogy. We were willing to wipe out Japan with nuclear weopens if they didnt surrender. Remember the truman quote Truman promised a "rain of ruin" if Japan did not surrender immediately. When people are at war, henious crimes are committed.

I never said it was the right thing, but it is necessary. When you're on the edge of death, you throw away the ethics and rely on instincts. At least that's what I think.

[mahram]

we have two diffrent perspectives on death then. Some people think that if you are still breathing, but you are brain dead, you are dead. Thats the medical definition. But for others who follow a more religious belief, even if they are brain dead, but still breathing they are considered alive. I think the majority of people will consider my first definition as correct. If you restrict an orii to their one dimension, its like killing an orii, its like making an orii brain dead.

By definition, if someone is still breathing, and their heart is still beating they are still alive.

If the Ori are trapped in a higher dimension, they are imprisioned in that dimension but they are not dead. They cannot exit, but does that mean they cannot see? Hear and feel?? Nope, just means that they are trapped behind at least temporarily inpentarbale walls.

[Deevil]

No, it's not. Their brain still exists, it's still capable of thought and of feeling. It's just imprisoned.

To kill something, you have to do more then imprison them.

[spg_1983]

but how do you define killing. If I beat a man to the point where he has no brain functions, cant move, talk, notta, forever, but he can still breath. Is that killing a person. To an orii, restricting him in an upper dimension, unable to move to other dimensions, is basically killing an orii. Since we dont know at that level of evolution, what death is to them.

You are drawing false and biased comparisons. I true comparisons would be taking a criminal and placing them in jail. They can live, move around their cell, talk to other prisoners, but they can not exert power or influence outside their prison.

[Filetta]

The definition of genocide is Deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. So is sg1 committing genocide.

No they are no because the Ori are not going to die, they are simply not going to be able to interact in our universe. It will be just like they did to the bugs in Sight Unseen 6.13, they stopped them from interacting in our dimension.

As for the Achen, they were given the address of the blackhole but I am sure they would have told them what it was and explained they were trying to be cautious until everything was cleared up if the Ashen had not tried to wipe out everyone on Earth with that bioweapon.

[mahram]

Its necessary but its wrong. When you start throwing out ethics, what we have basically become are the worst monsters in history like the nazi's, khemer rouge,huta/tutsi's in rawanda, bosnia. In their perspectives they were backed into a wall. There only way to maintain their societies were to kill off an entire race. So is sg1 any better. Like I said its not the first time they had to kill off an entire race. Remember the ashen. Or the gould killing plague.

I never said it was the right thing, but it is necessary. When you're on the edge of death, you throw away the ethics and rely on instincts. At least that's what I think.

[Pharaoh Atem]

on 1 side i can see where might be true but we are only trying to defend our selves i mean you think daniel and vala knew what there were getting into by using the communcation device.

there made a snap descion and now we are paying for it.

thats one of the reasons why we should play around with tech that we don't understand at least try to learn about it more before using it.

[mahram]

But like I said we dont know what it is tobe an ascended being. Restricting them to one dimension, could be like killing them. Its something that they need to survive and its an integral part of them. It would be like somebody, choping off your head, but keeping your body alive.

For the episode it was intentionally given to them. I wish joe will finally make that episode. But I hope its not a flash back epsiode. B/c its a court episode.

No they are no because the Ori are not going to die, they are simply not going to be able to interact in our universe. It will be just like they did to the bugs in Sight Unseen 6.13, they stopped them from interacting in our dimension.

As for the Achen, they were given the address of the blackhole but I am sure they would have told them what it was and explained they were trying to be cautious until everything was cleared up if the Ashen had not tried to wipe out everyone on Earth with that bioweapon.