S10: Critique & Contemplation

[pittsburghgirl]

Hmm. I'll admit to some confusion on that part. Who was that in the picture? I couldn't see it clearly.

Spoiler:

I thought it was Lorne, hence her asking him about it, but whatever, I'll just drop the whole thing and go back from whence I came. As has been made abundantly clear I have no right to be posting about S10 topics anyway. *shrug*

As for the SCam thing, I'll plead ignorance again. Shipmum and a couple of others said the shipping was overbearing and I took them at their word.

who said?

[saberhagen83]

I seem to be the only person on the planet that didn't enjoy The Shroud.

Spoiler:

I found it very muddled and confusing, with an awful lot of information being thrown about. I did actually understand what was happening, but found it muddled. Perhaps it was the way the episode was paced?

Daniel, to me, was MS with some make-up on, playing MS...not DJ.

Jack was good, and actually had some decent scenes.

Vala was back to wearing her pigtails, but thankfully there was only one silly scene between her and Daniel.

My attention waned in the middle of watching this episode, so I may like it more once I've watched it again.

Well I liked the episode the first time I watched, but decided to watch it the next day again. This time I didn't enjoy it quite as much.

Spoiler:

You are right about MS with some make-up on him. I was really hoping that there was going to be some really great story about him as a prior and the team trying to restore him back to himself.

From what I read on spoilers, Jack was going to sacrifice everything to save Daniel. So again I was thinking Daniel would be evil or at least that his mind would be clouded and Jack would do everything to save him no matter what. I didn't see any sacrificing from Jack at all, and I was really let down by that. I think this was a missed opporunity for some great storytelling.

So after watching it twice I found it decent, not bad but not really good like the 2 previous eps. It was nice to see Jack back, and this time, for once, he actually felt more like the good old Jack we knew before.

[Jackie]

I'm wondering why they keep having to place Sam in a relationship. Martouf, crush/ship (who knows what it was) with O'Neill. Then their was the McKay banter. Then let's not forget good old Pete. Then Jack O'Neill--again. Then Cammie in ripple effect.

Why do they always have to have a lead male or femal charcter that is single and seems to gravitate around the set? Can't thier be a lead that has a stable home life?

SGA kirks Sheppard with anything that breathes and has breasts. Rodney is not shipped as much but boy--me, me, me...all about Rodney. Rodney is in love with Rodney!

Weir--has to have a distant thing for John Sheppard and get dumped by her hubby.

SG-1: Daniel's chick of the week, Jack's chick of the week. Tealc'c had the only stable home life--which was no love life.

I would love to see Sam get some backbone and just slap Jack and Cammie for stringing her along. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they tried to do an episode where they do a lesbian ship with Sam or Vala. Or Sam and Vala.

[JessM]

I was wondering some time back how scenes in S1 episodes would play out if they were set in S10. It caused me to write this silly little thing here:

http://jessm78.livejournal.com/15554.html#cutid1

I probably didn't get some things quite right but for some reason felt compelled to post this.

[Strix varia]

Hmm. I'll admit to some confusion on that part. Who was that in the picture? I couldn't see it clearly.

Spoiler:

I thought it was Lorne, hence her asking him about it, but whatever, I'll just drop the whole thing and go back from whence I came. As has been made abundantly clear I have no right to be posting about S10 topics anyway. *shrug*

As for the SCam thing, I'll plead ignorance again. Shipmum and a couple of others said the shipping was overbearing and I took them at their word.

Spoiler:

Sam had her arm around Lorne, with a wedding ring clearly visible on her hand. When she made the gesture asking if they were together, he said, "no, no, no...etc." and said the pic was taken before her divorce from McKay. I suppose somebody could argue that having her arm around Lorne indicated that she was having an affair with him while she was still married to McKay, but why then would he deny they were an item with a very clear, "no, no, no?"

As for SCam, there are people who will ship Sam with any male she smiles at. And Thor. And blue jello. But does that really make it a ship supported by canon? I have the greatest respect for shipmum, but I'd like to see her (or anyone) quote any dialogue (or action, for that matter) that supports canon ship (beyond friendship) between Sam and Cam... because I got nothin. Smiling at a coworker does not a sex affair make, to my mind at least. Obviously, YMMV. But see, I don't see Jack/Daniel ship as canon, either.

As has been made abundantly clear I have no right to be posting about S10 topics anyway.

How exactly did you come to that conclusion? Or is it impossible to disagree with you without making you feel like you are being attacked? For my part, I can assure you that was not my intention.

[Skydiver]

the only 'canon' ships that i see, and ship meaning 'more than friends' is

sam/pete
sam/jonas hanson
daniel/shau'ri (with hathor, shyla coming in under the carnal knowledge clause)
daniel/sarah
jack/sara (and laira with the CKC)
jack/kerry
teal'c/drey'auc
teal'c/ishta
teal'c/krista
teal'c/sho'nac

there have been other close friendships, but if ship = more than acquaintances, there's not all that many.

Sam and Jack is...well as much as folks can infer from 'fishing' and 'not exactly' there's nothing canon that explicitly states taht they're doing anything else. I do think that thier friendship is closer than sam/daniel or sam/teal'c, but canonly that's about all it is

[AGateFan]

the only 'canon' ships that i see, and ship meaning 'more than friends' is

sam/pete
sam/jonas hanson
daniel/shau'ri (with hathor, shyla coming in under the carnal knowledge clause)
daniel/sarah
jack/sara (and laira with the CKC)
jack/kerry
teal'c/drey'auc
teal'c/ishta
teal'c/krista
teal'c/sho'nac

there have been other close friendships, but if ship = more than acquaintances, there's not all that many.

Sam and Jack is...well as much as folks can infer from 'fishing' and 'not exactly' there's nothing canon that explicitly states taht they're doing anything else. I do think that thier friendship is closer than sam/daniel or sam/teal'c, but canonly that's about all it is

Daniel and the young destroyer of worlds.

[minigeek]

I agree. While there's fairly irrefutable canon evidence to support that Jack and Sam have romantic feelings for one another, there's no canon evidence as yet to support that they've actually done anything physical about it. One can read innuendo into virtually anything.

the only 'canon' ships that i see, and ship meaning 'more than friends' is

sam/pete
sam/jonas hanson
daniel/shau'ri (with hathor, shyla coming in under the carnal knowledge clause)
daniel/sarah
jack/sara (and laira with the CKC)
jack/kerry
teal'c/drey'auc
teal'c/ishta
teal'c/krista
teal'c/sho'nac

there have been other close friendships, but if ship = more than acquaintances, there's not all that many.

Sam and Jack is...well as much as folks can infer from 'fishing' and 'not exactly' there's nothing canon that explicitly states taht they're doing anything else. I do think that thier friendship is closer than sam/daniel or sam/teal'c, but canonly that's about all it is

[minigeek]

An interesting aside - gateworld's latest news piece about S4 of Atlantis includes a snippet from Mallozzi's blog, mentioning one of his scripts being nearly done but yet to be vetted by the network. He says: "I’m almost finished my rewrite of Reunion and am, admittedly, a little worried. While the script offers plenty of action, it is primarily a character-driven story. It’ll be interesting to see what kind of notes we receive from the network."

A telling comment, isn't it? A writer attempting to write a character driven story, worried that the network won't see enough action. The network, believing that "action" is the only thing people tune in for. And yet decades of storytelling in the science fiction genre would indicate that's a fallacy. The network was also the impetus behind more sex appeal and less clothing.

How unbelieveably frustrating must it be to consistently try and work around that, if one is also trying to tell a meaningful (human) story.

[jckfan55]

An interesting aside - gateworld's latest news piece about S4 of Atlantis includes a snippet from Mallozzi's blog, mentioning one of his scripts being nearly done but yet to be vetted by the network. He says: "I’m almost finished my rewrite of Reunion and am, admittedly, a little worried. While the script offers plenty of action, it is primarily a character-driven story. It’ll be interesting to see what kind of notes we receive from the network."

A telling comment, isn't it? A writer attempting to write a character driven story, worried that the network won't see enough action. The network, believing that "action" is the only thing people tune in for. And yet decades of storytelling in the science fiction genre would indicate that's a fallacy. The network was also the impetus behind more sex appeal and less clothing.

How unbelieveably frustrating must it be to consistently try and work around that, if one is also trying to tell a meaningful (human) story.

That is appalling. Stargate wouldn't have been the success it was if it had always been written (meddled with) the way it has been in the last couple of seasons. How often have we heard about character moments getting left on the cutting room floor. I wonder how much of that was the network meddlers?

[smurf]

I seem to be the only person on the planet that didn't enjoy The Shroud.

Spoiler:

I found it very muddled and confusing, with an awful lot of information being thrown about. I did actually understand what was happening, but found it muddled. Perhaps it was the way the episode was paced?

Daniel, to me, was MS with some make-up on, playing MS...not DJ.

Jack was good, and actually had some decent scenes.

Vala was back to wearing her pigtails, but thankfully there was only one silly scene between her and Daniel.

My attention waned in the middle of watching this episode, so I may like it more once I've watched it again.

It was a lot of talk and not much action.

Spoiler:

MS playing Daniel as MS was odd. I found in the scenes with Jack it just didn't work. It was like they were trying to out-Jack each other.

I missed the first ten minutes, does anyone know who directed this episode?
I thought there were some horrible shots in it, especially during some of the (many) briefing room scenes. I know it's boring shooting around the table but don't just stick the camera on a too high tripod.

I'm probably too far gone from Stargate now - first episode I've watched since 200 - I didn't feel anything towards the entire episode.

[Skydiver]

the emphasis on action - ie bombs, butts and bombs, is a good chunk of what ticked people off in s9 and 10

LITS was not what i'd call a total action show. there were two distinct storylines, but was was so enthralling was the interactions between the characters on those storylines. and the insights we got into the characters.

THen take an eps like... well lifeboat. If you're not a daniel or unas fan, there wasn't much there. Just like with grace. If you dont' like sam, tune in next week.

Many of the s9 and 10 eps have been focused on action and furthering the Bori plot. And the characters are just there, spouting lines and furthering said plot.

and the eps have been panned for being, by and large, dull.

Emphasize the action and your plot has to be frakking stellar (and don't count on the effects. they're bloody well expensive and dude, you can't do anyting we ain't seen before)

but emphasize how the plot affects teh characters adn it gets interesting.

Lately, there's been no emotional tie in with the characters, just this obsessive focus on what i find to be a crappy and lame plot and not even thinly disguised attempt at social commentary.

if i want social commentary crammed down my throat, i'll watch pbs. BUt if i want to see and live through the experiences and adventures of fictional characters, well i USED to be able to count on this show.

can't do that much anymore.

and if the network is really calling the shots, dude, why even bother? if they're too blind to see how their interferrance and 'guidance' has killed the show, to hades with them

[Jackie]

If the show isn't character driven then you have no show. People don't connect to big bombs, tight leather, bad jokes, and warp drive technobabble.

Perhaps, that is why MASH is still stellar after all these years in re-runs?

Anyways, I am begining to find my own lame stories more intresting than what the series has put out in the last two years.

I did start the first page of a fic that leaves off on season 8 and picks up with Farscape. I thought it would be more intresting if they actually did merge the shows. I'm using an AU--I only watched the first two years of farscape.

I have it so John Critchon's father, Jack Critchon comes to the SGC in hopes of finding out what happened to his son. Then Farscape team finds a mystery ring on an abandon planet. That's where I left off.

It's a scary thought that skiffy can tell stargate that you don't have enough action in a heavy action script. Or that you're too character driven. The shows used to be 50 minutes long when on showtime. Skiffy took over and dropped 10 min just to make more money selling add space.

The best thing that could happen to stargate would be to get out of thier skiffy contract and back on a real network.

[RealmOfX]

Actually the whole notes from the network stuff is just another copout.

Yes, the networks (especially when a funder) do have a deal of power but so do the producers. Outside influences are present in all ventures. It's HOW the producers/writers deal with them that is important.

If you're getting BS from the network about BB&B then get some stats to present to them how it statistically kills shows; get something, ANYTHING to logically counter their arguments. Or maybe do something like write some action with a great plot and great character moments, you know cover all the bases with some good writing!!!

How about less creativeness with the excuses and more creativeness with the show?? They used to be able to do it.

[Dream-a-Little]

An interesting aside - gateworld's latest news piece about S4 of Atlantis includes a snippet from Mallozzi's blog, mentioning one of his scripts being nearly done but yet to be vetted by the network. He says: [I]"I’m almost finished my rewrite of Reunion and am, admittedly, a little worried. While the script offers plenty of action, it is primarily a character-driven story. It’ll be interesting to see what kind of notes we receive from the network."

From Joe's January 24th Blog in answer to the question "How much interference does the creative process receive from outside influences?”

Answer: No t.v. show is produced in a creative vacuum. That said, certain shows are more heavily-influenced by outside forces than others. Stargate has been fortunate in that it had already proven itself when it made the move from Showtime. Robert have always been permitted to make their own creative decisions and since the show’s inception, the buck has ultimately stopped with them. With season four of Atlantis, the buck will now stop with Paul and I (so if you have any complaints, please direct all correspondence to Paul who sets aside two hours every day to personally read fan mail). That said, SciFi does pay for the product and, thus, does weigh in on everything from script and cut notes to big issue decisions such as casting. MGM, meanwhile, has been nothing but fully, one hundred percent supportive of both shows and their creative teams.

Hmmm, sounds like the buck stops with Joe if the audience response is favorable but if you don't like what you get he's covering himself with blame that evil interfering network...