S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Mandysg1]

It's horrible how TPTB are treating the Sam character.I never thought the Sam/Jack Ship made Sam look bad.I think having Sam be the screwup or having all the male guest stars falling for Sam has really hurt the character.When RDA and Michael Greenberg were in charge they knew how to write the Sam character and all the characters.If I knew RDA and Michael Greenberg were in charge of the Movies I would be really happy.

I'll keep my fingers crossed in hopes of that, but I ain't going to hold my breath

[JessM]

As for MS vs Daniel. I'll have to disagree with Skydiver because earlier Daniel is my favorite and not boring for me though I do like S7-8 for him too (just not as much). While I saw some MS in Season 7-8 Daniel, it wasn't until Season 9-10 that it became obvious and kind of annoying to me. Again disagreeing with Skydiver in that I don't really like the way Daniel behaves around Vala. I guess I don't really see this "loosening up". He just seems more annoyed to me than he used to be and while he's always been snarky, I think it becomes a different kind of snarky when around her (and I don't mean that in a good way). He seems more over the top and less like Daniel when he's around Vala (so I guess for me that means I think he acts less "normal"). I think it again depends on what interviews people read though as well as how they interpret them because beyond the clothes and the allergies (and occasionally the glasses), I never got the impression that MS didn't like Daniel. Perhaps got frustrated with some of Daniel's actions yes but I think that's true for all of the actors vs their characters. (And I actually agreed with him about the allergies and was glad that they got rid of them because it's one thing to have them present in the movie but it'd be annoying to see him sneezing all the time on the show.) The only thing I'd agree about though is that lately Daniel's been a bit too much "military guy". Obviously he'll know his way around guns and military procedures better now than in say S2 but sometimes I think that causes him to lose some of those specific Daniel qualities.

I agree with much of what you said (sorry, Sky! ). That's pretty much how I feel about Daniel too. Even though I liked S7-8 Daniel, the earlier Daniel is my favorite too. I didn't really find him boring but I guess part of the reason is because I did enjoy the movie Daniel and because I'm more the academic type (or was until very recently anyway) myself and found that I could identify with him a bit. The MS-in-Daniel became quite obvious to me as well in S9-10 and even though I still like Daniel, it's gotten a bit annoying to me too. I've said quite a few times here on this forum (not necessarily in this thread though) that I felt Vala brings out the worst in Daniel and he is less himself around her... at least the self that I've come to know and love him for (if that makes any sense - convoluted sentence there, lol). I did notice that his snark seemed quite OTT and maybe inappropriate when she was in his vicinity - definitely saw that in COT.

I'm not sure about him hating Daniel or anything like that. I know there were aspects of Daniel that he couldn't wait to change, like the clothes, the allergies, and definitely the hair (supposedly he'd wanted it short for quite some time and kept getting it cut shorter and shorter even during S2 until they let him go all out at the end in Out of Mind (and I know he was going to do Hamlet but I think that's just one reason)). As far as becoming more military, I guess he had to, but like you I don't see many of the specific Daniel qualities anymore. He just doesn't come off as very endearing to me personally anymore.

I dunno, I guess I just have some Daniel issues...

[Strix varia]

in one way, i like the more ballsy daniel. Mister 98 pound 'protect my poor lily white innocence' daniel was beyond boring. he annoyed me to no end

Not me; I liked Daniel this way. He was good looking, yet he wasn't your stereotypical white male hero. He had a different way of solving problems that didn't include shooting or blowing things up. I found this very appealing.

and it does make sense that, after so many years, daniel would grow a backbone and become a bit more self sufficient and forceful

Agreed.

so while i do like him being a bit more manly, i just wish he was becoming his own man, not desperately channeling any variety of 'WMAH' (white male action heros) in an effort to studly himself up. it doesn't make him look more hero-y. MS will never - to me - be one of those confident masculine men like Reynolds, or jack or Dixon. He's not the type. He's the 'nice guy' not the 'masculine alpha male'. And - again to me - every time a beta male tries to act like an alpha male, it's just kinda pathetic.

Did you mean to say Daniel in your sentence above, rather than MS? If so, disregard the following:

I think MS is every bit as studley and masculine as, say, Ben Browder or other WMAHs. I mean, weren't they concerned that the audience couldn't differentiate between MS and BB at the beginning of season 9? MS could easily play the leading action hero role, IMO.

Actually, I could see why MS might want Daniel to be more of an alpha male for exactly the reasons you have expressed. Being typed as a "nice guy" might not be what he wants for his future acting career. While I may think that's wrong for the character of Daniel, I could understand where MS might be coming from.

I just wish that, to get vala chilling him out, we also didn't have to be 'treated' to vala's silliness adn eye-rolling stupidity

Couldn't agree with you more on this point.

[Rogue]

It's horrible how TPTB are treating the Sam character.I never thought the Sam/Jack Ship made Sam look bad.I think having Sam be the screwup or having all the male guest stars falling for Sam has really hurt the character.When RDA and Michael Greenberg were in charge they knew how to write the Sam character and all the characters.If I knew RDA and Michael Greenberg were in charge of the Movies I would be really happy.

I read a RDA interview where RDA called Greenberg his ex-business partner. Does anyone else have anymore info or can confirm this?

[Crow T. Robot]

that's all women seem to be good for in coop's version of scifi

As much as I’d love to blame Coop for it, I really can’t.

Have you seen the state of female characters in Sci Fi as a genre? Not good. What I blame Coop for is going along with it. Sam was one of those characters that ignored the Sci Fi stereotypes.

The sad thing is have you just ever staked out a Sci Fi section of a book store on a rainy afternoon? Would you believe that the ratio men to women browsing and buying in that section is roughly 2 to 1 in favor of young women? And yet they write Sci Fi TV for men. Go figure.

And for introducing male characters in tight fitting leather that shows off all their assets...Why the heck not? Introduce enough male characters that way and maybe just maybe it will stick in someone’s thick skull exactly how stupid it is. If I was a guy, I’d think I’d be fairly insulted by the suggestion that “Dumb it down. Sex it up. And men will come” idea by TV makers in general.

The funny thing is reality has shown the VERY opposite over and over again. Sexing up a TV show doesn’t bring in the 18-25 crowd. JAG tried to do it and it didn’t work. However great acting and great writing does. “House” (Which by the way had absolutely NO promotion when it first started but built slowly with word of mouth) would be an excellent example.

[JessM]

Also have you notice that lately it always Sam thats the fall guy? To advance the plot they need a screwup, so they use Sam.

I definitely have. This may not be the same thing, but... (spoilers for COT and The Quest)

Spoiler:

When she and Vala were dealing with the crystals on the ship in COT, they had to have Vala be the one to come up with the solution. Sam says it won't work and might cause more trouble if she does it - but it works!

This one isn't as bad, but in The Quest when they were trying to get through that maze with the time distortion field, it was Vala who had to prompt Sam into trying to find a way ("could be right in front of us" or something like that).

[JessM]

It's horrible how TPTB are treating the Sam character.I never thought the Sam/Jack Ship made Sam look bad.I think having Sam be the screwup or having all the male guest stars falling for Sam has really hurt the character.When RDA and Michael Greenberg were in charge they knew how to write the Sam character and all the characters.If I knew RDA and Michael Greenberg were in charge of the Movies I would be really happy.

Like Mandy I'm not holding my breath, but I agree with you. I loved the Sam character in the early seasons (even if I wasn't a big fan of the S/J ship - please don't throw things at me!!!). I have seen that RCC can't write her well and I miss the days when RDA and Michael Greenberg were in charge (and definitely miss the days where we had Glassner and Wright).

[Skydiver]

As much as I’d love to blame Coop for it, I really can’t.

Have you seen the state of female characters in Sci Fi as a genre? Not good. What I blame Coop for is going along with it. Sam was one of those characters that ignored the Sci Fi stereotypes.

The sad thing is have you just ever staked out a Sci Fi section of a book store on a rainy afternoon? Would you believe that the ratio men to women browsing and buying in that section is roughly 2 to 1 in favor of young women? And yet they write Sci Fi TV for men. Go figure.

true. they keep trying to cater to the young adult male market...but really, who has more money?

how about just making stuff taht appeals to both genders instead of discriminating against one

The funny thing is reality has shown the VERY opposite over and over again. Sexing up a TV show doesn’t bring in the 18-25 crowd. JAG tried to do it and it didn’t work. However great acting and great writing does. “House” (Which by the way had absolutely NO promotion when it first started but built slowly with word of mouth) would be an excellent example.

that's because house has some great characters. and some fantastic stories. jag, in addition to sexing up the show, fell into template mode which is boring. cause there's not a template out there that we haven't seen a time or ten

[ses110]

No problem about not being a fan of the S/J Ship.I liked the Sam character whether their was Sam/Jack Ship or not.As a Man I'm tired of how many of these Shows are treating the Women characters.The Men characters are not much better.I'm tired of seeing the main characters pushed off on a new guest character every week.The guest characters also bring very little value except for falling for the main character.It's like it's the dating game.I always wanted the main character to get together as long as the chemistry was their.I always hated Kirking.

[Skydiver]

Like Mandy I'm not holding my breath, but I agree with you. I loved the Sam character in the early seasons (even if I wasn't a big fan of the S/J ship - please don't throw things at me!!!). I have seen that RCC can't write her well and I miss the days when RDA and Michael Greenberg were in charge (and definitely miss the days where we had Glassner and Wright).

that's because, in my opinion, they didn't get hung up writing a woman, they just wrote the character. rcc can't seem to get past the fact that she has boobies, and therefore must be inferior to the guys. and since she can't/won't fall into slapstick like vala is, what is there for them to do with her but use her to make the others look good

[ses110]

Great points Skydiver.RDA Greenberg Glassner and Wright repected the Actors and the characters.They did not treat the Sam character as an object and play thing for the guest character.IMO the worst was Grace Under Pressure with McKay dreaming about Sam.An episode like that should not happen.It's SG-1 not a late night Show on Cinemax.IMO TPTB should not be using these characters for their own kicks.

[Rogue]

I definitely have. This may not be the same thing, but... (spoilers for COT and The Quest)

Spoiler:

When she and Vala were dealing with the crystals on the ship in COT, they had to have Vala be the one to come up with the solution. Sam says it won't work and might cause more trouble if she does it - but it works!

This one isn't as bad, but in The Quest when they were trying to get through that maze with the time distortion field, it was Vala who had to prompt Sam into trying to find a way ("could be right in front of us" or something like that).

Also in the Insiders:

Spoiler:

In order to solve the storyline problem of how Baal gets the info, they have Sam download the info. Why not one of the men? I was really disappointed when I found out she actually gave Baal the info instead of downloading mis-information.

[pittsburghgirl]

JAG sexed up the show? gee my rose colored blinders must have been fogged up that day.

[Mandysg1]

JAG sexed up the show? gee my rose colored blinders must have been fogged up that day.

Oh you mean you don't remember the episode where they were in Miami (or somewhere in Fl.) and they had to go undercover so Mac had to wear a skimpy bikini,but of course the guys were fully covered up

[Skydiver]

Also in the Insiders:

Spoiler:

In order to solve the storyline problem of how Baal gets the info, they have Sam download the info. Why not one of the men? I was really disappointed when I found out she actually gave Baal the info instead of downloading mis-information.

shrug. I guess it was sam's 'place' as the female to be the victim.