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**ReganX** · 17 September 2006, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Aria Rayn

I'll second that. Even though Vala is irritating in her own special way, weighed with Mitchell, she's number one. She's only a mild annoyance some of the time. To me, Mitchell is an irritation 95% of the time.

I feel the same way (except Mitchell is an irritation 99.999999% of the time for me) - I'm not overly fond of Vala but I can put up with her and have hope for the character in Season Ten.

In Mitchell's case, I hate the character and I'm pretty certain that I'm going to hate hi as long as he's a part of the show. Even if they were to make changes in the final hour, it's too late for the character now, at least as far as I'm concerned.

**ReganX** · 18 September 2006, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Skydiver

what's so sad about Vaniel. Ok, so coop has a ship he adores. But none of the vala fans seem to realize that, by incessantly pairing daniel and vala up to the exclulsion of all others, coop is also tying vala's success to danielE.

Let's play pretend and say that there's a s11 and MS doesnt' sign. where does that leave vala? after all, if she's good for nothing more htan to be half of Vaniel and if the daniel half is gone, will she also face the 'we don't know what to do with your character' crud that AT faced this year? (and i think faces every day)

Vaniel doesn't HELP vala, it makes her weak.

if vala is totally dependant up on Daniel, hten vala is nothing more than a cliche like Shau'ri...a character that's easily tossed aside

Excellent point. While Vala has her own part in the plot with the Ori, in terms of inter-character relationships, she is more or less shackled to Daniel but, unlike Daniel, she has not had the benefit of nearly a decade to build bonds with the other characters or to build her own character. If Vala goes, Daniel has his long-term friendships with Sam and Teal'c to fall back on, his role as the cultural/linguistic expert of the team and the potential for interactions with short-term characters. Vala, in contrast, has very little.

If, hypothetically speaking, there is a last minute save for the series after Season Ten ends, but MS chooses not to take part, then the character is at a loose end, especially if the Ori storyline has been resolved. Story-wise, the writers can play with Vala as a former host or Vala's criminal past - and if they feel like repeating themselves, Vala as an alien adjusting to Earth - but in terms of bonds with other characters, she will be in a very weakened position. If Vala is more like half of Vaniel than a fifth of SG-1, then the character will have huge problems finding a niche for herself in the team without her other half.

The irony is that there would have been a lot of potential for a connection between Sam and Vala (not just the ex-host thing, they're both strong women with very different viewpoints) and between Vala and Teal'c (both aliens, Vala as a bit of a fish out of water at the SGC, as Teal'c was way back when, Teal'c helping her adjust, etc) but the opportunity was wasted and that coud end up hurting Vala's character in the long run.

MS is going to be missing a few episodes this season, right? I wonder what the writers have planned for Vala in his absence.

**Albion** · 18 September 2006, 12:58 AM

In Mitchell's case, I hate the character and I'm pretty certain that I'm going to hate hi as long as he's a part of the show. Even if they were to make changes in the final hour, it's too late for the character now, at least as far as I'm concerned.

I wouldn't say I hate the character, but definitely I pretty much agree with the rest of this. He irks me. I don't find his 'humour' amusing, his jokes fall flat on these ears and if I was still watching, I think I'd just be fast forwarding every moment he was in. Except that then I'd miss out most of the show and anything good that the rest of the cast came up with.

I have tried to like him in the S10 episodes I've seen. Well...one ep I've seen.

But I just can't. I was all set to go watch Morpheus right after F&B, because I did quite enjoy F&B, but all it took was the first few moments of Mitchell burbling away with his stupid one liners on the planet and I was hitting the off switch, quivering with irritation. And I haven't been back since, despite having eps up to 200 on my hd.

They screwed up with Mitchel massively for me in S9 and unfortunately that memory is so seared into my brain I doubt I'm going to turnaround now and start liking the guy. Maybe if they'd gotten to S13.... Maybe. Okay, probably not even then.

And I'm even less inclined to watch now that I've heard about that stupid alien dialogue in CoT. That just seals it for me. Every time I read about it, I just feel desperately saddened that a show that once prided itself on the details can sink to such awful levels as that. I don't know what offends me more. That it's such poorly written dialogue, something I'd expect to find in a comic. Or that it shows so strongly that the writers don't even care about getting it right any longer and obviously have such contempt for their viewers that they think they can palm off this crap on us and we either won't notice or won't care.

Albion

(off to have breakfast before she depresses herself more)

**JessM** · 18 September 2006, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by Sg Gato

[/SPOILERS]

I was thinking the same thing.

Spoiler:

**JessM** · 18 September 2006, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by Amanda Eros

I am surpised by one thing. They never used the "we can't send five people though the gate at one time" thing as an excuse to not have Jonas stay on.

Normally I'm all for having more women in the cast, but I would much rather have Jonas on the team than her. I would rather have Jonas on the team than Mitchell. I would just plain rather have Jonas there than both of them. Think of all the money they could have saved for crying out loud! Shame on them for crying about their budget when they make dumb choices like that.

I definitely would rather have Jonas there instead of Vala. I think he deserves to be on the team a lot more than she does.

Right, they only have themselves to blame for this mess.

**JessM** · 18 September 2006, 03:31 AM

Originally posted by smurf

I'm sure we'll still have the Vaniel show for the mini, I'm just wondering what will happen to poor Cam.
Jack pretty much wipes the floor with the character in comparison, and it's not as if Cam's particularly needed in the overall arc. He's kinda tagging along rather than leading.
Sam does tech.
Vala does Ori babies.
Danny boy is the other half of Vaniel.
Teal'c... well, I'm sure there'll be a torture scene to be filled.

That pretty much covers it I think. If it's the Vaniel show, count me out of watching.

**JessM** · 18 September 2006, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by ParadoxRealities

i did like sam in this ep though. not the way it was written or done, just the general set up. yeah, don't ask me what that means. she actually, gasp, got something emotional. now if only we could get that interpersonal factor down (no, i did not like the Vaniel greeting). in other news, i still have yet to determine why mitchell is on the team, Vala's irreverence is actually becoming MORE annoying--how the heck that happened i can't say--she needs a good chewing out, Hewo needs a good knocking out, and sam and teal'c need a good hug for putting up with the two (and for the whole torture thing).

i suppose i won't repeat the credit rage. <deletes>

Even though I had quite a few problems with this episode (most of which have been mentioned here), the part in bold was one of my biggest beefs. I honestly cannot believe that, Daniel being the kind, considerate person that he is, would not give a whit about Sam's welfare after what she'd been through. This only furthers my belief that Daniel has been replaced by a pod person.

Actually I don't think anyone seemed concerned about her at all. Makes me wonder what tptb think of her character.

And I couldn't agree more that Vala needs a good chewing out. I would SO love to see someone do that before the show ends -- but only if we don't get Daniel coming to her defense every time.

**Descent** · 18 September 2006, 04:14 AM

One thing I absolutely hated was the fact that Daniel just smiled and waved as that one Lucian Alliance guy was beamed out into space and killed. Since when does Daniel not care about human life or any form of life for that matter? Oh....

**Skydiver** · 18 September 2006, 04:19 AM

the aliens spouting earth slang was horrible. they did it with teal'c too. he said something in the beginning

Spoiler:

little bits like language and dictation are those little finishing touches that make a show believable. when they don't take care of it, things like this just jerk ya right out of the story and make you shake your head

**Skydiver** · 18 September 2006, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by Descent

One thing I absolutely hated was the fact that Daniel just smiled and waved as that one Lucian Alliance guy was beamed out into space and killed. Since when does Daniel not care about human life or any form of life for that matter? Oh....

probably since the actor and director have decided that Daniel needs to mimick the john crichton hero archetype as much as possible

**Skydiver** · 18 September 2006, 04:23 AM

waht i'm getting tired of are the cliched writing as it pertanis to the new characters

vala is always right...even when she's wrong, she's right. thus the rest of the team - or whomever is her straightman at the moment, will stand there 'but you can't do that/that won't work' and bang, yes, it does and the oh so adored vala is right yet again

vala not 'getting' earth slang. Yeah, just like teal'c, this schtick got old after the 2nd or 3rd time. it's ok every once in a while, but when the writers use it as a crutch for 'humor' and shove it into every episode, it just diminishes vala and turns her into a joke

vala started out as a cliche adn she gets to me even more so of one with every single episode. she's now, little more than half of vaniel and the 'always right in th end' rogue taht is annoying as crap, but i'm sure everyone adores adn loves because she's so much fun!!!

she just gets more and more mary sue with every episode

**JessM** · 18 September 2006, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by pittsburghgirl

yup-that is exactly how i have been seeing this season-sky has a new name Vaniel-and that is what it had been turning into. Vaniel and those other guys.

last night at least i had the feeling I was actually watching the show i had grown to love and enjoy-i am hoping this was not an accident and tht maybe after the break it will continue. of course you know what they say about holding your breath-you turn blue, pass out and start to breath again.

I really felt that the characters were connected to each other and that they cared. actually seeing Sam's reaction to what happened to Emerson was so genuine and it carried over to the scene where the crewmember asked what happened. that had not been there for sometime on this show and it was nice to see.

I don't know, I wasn't too thrilled about the interpersonal connections. No one seemed concerned about Sam at all, especially Daniel whom I'd expect it from since he was always the caring, compassionate guy. I mean isn't he supposed to be her friend? I guess being one half of Vaniel means you have to forgo caring about your friends on any level whatsoever.

....sorry I am so bitter...

**Rogue** · 18 September 2006, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by JessM

Even though I had quite a few problems with this episode (most of which have been mentioned here), the part in bold was one of my biggest beefs. I honestly cannot believe that, Daniel being the kind, considerate person that he is, would not give a whit about Sam's welfare after what she'd been through. This only furthers my belief that Daniel has been replaced by a pod person.

Actually I don't think anyone seemed concerned about her at all. Makes me wonder what tptb think of her character.

And I couldn't agree more that Vala needs a good chewing out. I would SO love to see someone do that before the show ends -- but only if we don't get Daniel coming to her defense every time.

I totally agree. Thats one of the reasons I stopped watching. I don't know who these people are anymore.

**Skydiver** · 18 September 2006, 04:39 AM

to repeat for those that don't/won't pay attention

THIS IS THE ANTI S10 THREAD, A PLACE FOR COMPLAINTS AND MISGIVINGS ABOUT THE SHOW

THIS IS NOT A PLACE TO ANTAGONIZE OR DISRESPECT THOSE THAT PLAY HERE.

There's 99.99999% of the rest of the forum for those that wish to debate. Leave this thread alone.

**JessM** · 18 September 2006, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by Seshat

The same thought occurred to me with all the D/V stuff being pushed on us.

Uck. Eww. And no fair all come to mind. (And I am not a shipper either.) But the rules really seem to fluctuate in the writers' room, don't they?

So true. *shakes head sadly*

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