Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[VSS]

Sorry, but what is EaTG?

Enemy at the Gate, the last episode of SGA.

[ZOMG!b_cs]

Enemy at the Gate, the last episode of SGA.

Thank you. I was confused because it sounded like something that had already happened.

[Caladria]

Quantum physics is a great excuse for everything!

Spoiler:

You could even say, "Honey, it's theoretically possible that the car dented all by itself."

Well, if you knew where it was there was no way you could know where it was going!

(Don't blame me, honey, blame Heisenberg!)

[Solo]

ROFL! (also, *headdesk*)

I think Sam perhaps harnesses that as a defense mechanism, rather than it being a genuine unconscious thing. Science alway seems to be her escape from messy, fraught emotions (e.g. 100 Days; and I don't think that it's particularly surprising that the one thing that Jacob Carter does know about his daughter in "Secrets" is her scientific ambition). It's just that, as she's got older, she's changed from hiding in science to using the scientific to push the emotional away until she has an appropriate time to deal with it rather than just not dealing with it at all (and... I don't actually have backup for that; it's just a feeling).

I think it's a mix of both, actually - her scientific exploits are, obviously, legion, and while Sam may take refuge in those from time to time, I think that Major Carter actively pushes them to the fore as a little bit of a badge of honour - not for praise or recognition so much as, "This is how I'm best able to contribute." And it's as much because of who Daddy is that I get that feeling - Sam isn't the type to be able to put up with people thinking she got a free ride or anything on her way through the ranks. So she would naturally turn to the thing she does better than just about anyone on earth as a default mechanism.

[Bucky]

Hey all,

Jumping backward a bit to a discussion on the confirmation in SG1-3.

I think when it comes (and it will), our confirmation will have been there throughout the whole film in subtle ways we won't notice until we go back and look again after the big surprise reveal!

Someone posted the other day (I'm sorry, I don't remember who) that a possible scenario would be Jack being on a mission/trip/ambassador-ish type thing and encounters trouble. Sam, in her new command (ie, RE: EatG - no spoilered as it was mentioned in Joe M's blog) will be/arrive/show up to save him.

I can see it as this: it's reported that Jack's been killed/injured/captured and when Sam and her crew/team/support arrives she simply forgets herself for one moment (probably with nobody around, perhaps in the cell/room/office she finds him in first before everyone else gets there) and simply, upon finding him whole and healthy, wraps herself around him...then they kiss.

I don't mean 'wraps herself around him' in that slightly apologetic/angsty way at the end of Heroes II, but in that 'oh my God, my love/lover/husband is alive!' way. Then...the BHK.

But...throughout the ep we (and we really hadn't noticed because they worked hard at hiding it) missed seeing Sam's wedding ring. But now, as she's holding him and they're kissing (and she's, of course, ruffling his hair) we get a great shot of her ring.

Okay...I've put way too much thought into this, eh? But I can so clearly see it!

Nods.

I haven't been able to get here in ages, and then this post greets me. Happy New Year, darlin'! And a little green stuff (which it was the spendable kind!).

Bucky

[VSS]

Hey all,

Jumping backward a bit to a discussion on the confirmation in SG1-3.

I think when it comes (and it will), our confirmation will have been there throughout the whole film in subtle ways we won't notice until we go back and look again after the big surprise reveal!

Someone posted the other day (I'm sorry, I don't remember who) that a possible scenario would be Jack being on a mission/trip/ambassador-ish type thing and encounters trouble. Sam, in her new command (ie, RE: EatG - no spoilered as it was mentioned in Joe M's blog) will be/arrive/show up to save him.

I can see it as this: it's reported that Jack's been killed/injured/captured and when Sam and her crew/team/support arrives she simply forgets herself for one moment (probably with nobody around, perhaps in the cell/room/office she finds him in first before everyone else gets there) and simply, upon finding him whole and healthy, wraps herself around him...then they kiss.

I don't mean 'wraps herself around him' in that slightly apologetic/angsty way at the end of Heroes II, but in that 'oh my God, my love/lover/husband is alive!' way. Then...the BHK.

But...throughout the ep we (and we really hadn't noticed because they worked hard at hiding it) missed seeing Sam's wedding ring. But now, as she's holding him and they're kissing (and she's, of course, ruffling his hair) we get a great shot of her ring.

Okay...I've put way too much thought into this, eh? But I can so clearly see it!

Absolutely! But WE wouldn't miss it- the general viewing audience might.
And then they'd have to go back over the last few years and find out what else they missed that we haven't...

I totally believe that's what's going to happen. TPTB have spent entirely too much time dropping clever little hints like strategically placed pictures, and passwords, and people selling motorcycles they don't even own...

[VSS]

Thank you. I was confused because it sounded like something that had already happened.

For some of us, it did.

Because, uh, I know how to time travel Yeah, that's how I know what happened.

[atlantis sg1]

First of all.. ((((((((EGLE))))))))!!!

secondly: good morn... I mean after noon.

For some of us, it did.

Because, uh, I know how to time travel Yeah, that's how I know what happened.

ROTFL... *Goes along with story*

[Solo]

OMG, Egle, that was you? I thought you were quoting someone, and I just couldn't quite figure out who Glad you're okay!!!

[starlover]

Thank you. I just modified one I'd heard before.

But I think O'Neill would appreciate a limerick, don't you?

Pol awesome post, that would be a good way for the confirmation in the movie as well



Erm yeah..not more to say...I just saw the Sanctuary season finale...still blown away by that..

[Pol]

Stopping by to drop of Chapter 12 of Across the Ionian Sea.

Almost there...

[Rachel500]

On Sam, Jack and the run up to Threads:

I think we also have to remember that not only was Sam seeing Pete and Jack having to deal with the reality that his inaction (however well intentioned towards her happiness) had resulted in her moving on with all that horrible truth making him grumpy and short, but that he himself had started up with Kerry post Citizen Joe and I think a large part of Jack 'keeping it professional'/being curt towards Sam in Reckoning and Threads is his own futile attempt to shift his internal loyalties from Sam, the woman he loved but thought he had lost to Kerry, the woman he was involved with.

On Sam and Pregnancy

I think the reasons for not writing it into the show were varied. On the 'reailty' front amongst them from what I have read, was that there was a high risk of miscarriage for AT at the time and therefore had it been written in and she had lost the baby...well, it doesn't bear thinking about.

On the 'story' front, I think it would have complicated the outcome of the Sam/Jack arc as the 'natural' father at the time would have been Pete. So very messy unless they came up with some alien intervention where Sam gets pregnant either immaculately or Jack's genetics at least being involved somehow...

So, yes; pleased all round that they didn't include it.

On Sam, Jack and A Matter of Time

Early Sam is just very oblivious at times to the human factor. She sees the possiblity of examining a black hole - Jack sees the reality of watching a team die. She sees the scientific value first and the human cost second. It's not that she's unfeeling or uncompassionate just unthinking in the moment.

I think Jack is terse with her because of his own guilt at the deaths of the team on the planet and frustration at his inability to save them. Then everything goes pearshaped at the SGC and he gets even more frustrated especially when Cromwell turns up and then his frustration reaches an all time high.

But when Sam returns with a solution at the end, he is supportive of her and does her plan without hesitation.

[JenniferJF]

He believes that he is going to have to work with her day after day after she's married to Pete. I think he's trying to put distance between them and keep it in the room all at the same time. It's sad because he is possibly pushing their friendship away as well, but he has to think of what is right for both of them, all three of them, even.

I don't think Jack's attitude towards Sam at the end of S8, at least the harshness, was at all deliberate. I think it was simply an outward reaction to his inward pain. Being around her, constantly reminded of what he wanted but couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't have was painful. And his abruptness was a reaction to that pain. Sort of like having an itch you can't scratch.

The irony is, one of the reasons they couldn't be together, why I'm sure Sam didn't confront him back in Grace, was because she was afraid of losing his friendship and hurting their professional relationship if she had and he'd not reciprocated. And, yet, by the end of S8, despite not having 'risked' anything, she was losing all that anyway. So, in effect, hallucination Jack was wrong when he said he'd always be there for her - she was losing Jack, and there were circumstances which would push him away.

Which is why, despite the huge risk she took confronting him in Threads, she was of course, also and at the same time, not really risking anything. She was already losing him, both as a friend and professionally as they no longer worked together in the same way, so she had also almost gotten to the point when she had nothing to lose, too.

And, as for Sam and science as defense mechanism, I agree it's a bit of a deliberate thing now. She is able to push aside her feelings and emotions - quite intentionally - until at a time and place when they can be safely dealt with. I actually think we see her doing that in Unending when Vala finds her sitting alone in the dark mess hall with her face (especially nose) red. We also saw her doing it in Paradise Lost and, really, AU Sam in PoV.

Which is, of course, why many of us are convinced she did the same in Continuum. It's just a terribly Sam thing to do. The difference between Sam now and Sam in the early years is, IMHO, that Sam now isn't ashamed at the feelings, as Sam seemed to be when she admitted to having them for and about Cassie in Singularity. Sam now, I believe, isn't afraid to confront and to feel them but maintains the ability to choose when and where to do so.

And, honestly, I think some of the looking at science first is just the natural curiousity of an intelligent mind. She wants to know all the facts and figures - they interest her - and I don't think that will change even with an emotionally balanced Sam I think Continuum shows that idea best:[spoiler]In the light of the great tragedy of Jack's death, she is at first competely unable to find that balance she needs, but does quicky regain it when Cam calls her back to the here and now, but you can see her depression and her control slipping from time to time especially through the Arctic sequences. And she is, once engaged, still being Sam interested in what has happened and the science of it.. Cause that's just who she is. But it's also clear, IMHO, that there's no longer the great joy simply in the science there once might have been,as we see in earlier episodes like Matter of Time when Jack has to remind her of the human element involved.

[JenniferJF]

[Early Sam is just very oblivious at times to the human factor. She sees the possiblity of examining a black hole - Jack sees the reality of watching a team die. She sees the scientific value first and the human cost second. It's not that she's unfeeling or uncompassionate just unthinking in the moment.

I think Jack is terse with her because of his own guilt at the deaths of the team on the planet and frustration at his inability to save them. Then everything goes pearshaped at the SGC and he gets even more frustrated especially when Cromwell turns up and then his frustration reaches an all time high.

I will add that I think one of the great reasons Sam needs Jack is because he tends to bring out the human being in her. He, effectively, teaches her to fish. I'm certain, for instance, that early season Sam would not have had those pictures in her office she did in Atlantis.... She didn't even admit to having a father in the Air Force. And I often think that scene in Matter of Time is an example of that - is refusing to let the person sink below the scientist. And yes, it's his 'job' as her mentor, but it is I think one of the reasons she falls in love with him - he does see her always as that complete person and never as a collection of separate roles.

[josiane]

Afternoon

WOW! BW is on the Joe Mallozzi blog thread!! Here's what he said about his q&a!

WTG Brad for coming on and doing that. Good to see so many of the family in there thanking him and being generally the nice, polite fans that we'd like to think is the norm

Well, yes. But I was making a gutter joke... Time's not funny , and if there is more 'ship' stuff for fluff or gutter in #3 than is absolutely essential for the plot it might in fact get cut from the TV release for both time and content. But they won't cut out pure 'confirmation' as that would be a big franchise moment they wouldnt' want the TV only audience to miss. It's generally only non-essential stuff that gets edited in that way. Though it is possible the Net Suits would feel romance to be non-essential. I don't know them well enough to say for sure.

I think that's a vital distinction - romance could get cut, but confirmation is highly unlikely to. It's the story, rather than the padding, if you see what I mean.

Absolutely! But WE wouldn't miss it- the general viewing audience might.
And then they'd have to go back over the last few years and find out what else they missed that we haven't...

I totally believe that's what's going to happen. TPTB have spent entirely too much time dropping clever little hints like strategically placed pictures, and passwords, and people selling motorcycles they don't even own...

*nods* Oh yes! Me too, and I can't wait

In all the excellent Sam character discussion I lost the last episode of the week vote... will be back in a bit when I've found it to add mine