Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[Rachel-Kree]

i'm reading the posts there and ... i didn't found anything about us YET ... only about those 'Anti' threads...

[trupi]

i'm reading the posts there and ... i didn't found anything about us YET ... only about those 'Anti' threads...

I got it from the mods themselves Plus you read 17 pages?

[Lady eliza]

Granted this is several hours late and you’ve already finished the conversation I’d imagine, but my internet died after reading APA’s post so and it’s just come back so I’m going to post what I was going to say at 2 o’clock anyway

Yeah, i do agree that Pete does spend a lot of his time being villainised, and as you say APA, had just shared quite a lot of personal stuff with Sam, when her response is "I'm not allowed". I too had never associated Pete with the label 'stalker' until reading this thread.
However, it does bug me that he does just get up and leave - almost as if he's in a strop. He's a cop and has probably heard the word 'classified' before. - Although I'm sure there was something non-classified that Sam could have told him that would have satisfied him that they were sharing.
He seemed to be making his point that he had some strong feelings for her and this wasn't a one night thing, and then what happens, the first thing she says - or doesn't say - that he doesn't agree with he gets up and leaves her. Although her probably doesn't see, we do see how hurt Sam is by this.
I don't think Sam set out to use Pete. Jack had made the decision to move on and she'd been left standing there. So she decided to move on as well, and find something she just couldn't have with Jack. If her heart was still with Jack that's not really her fault, so I guess maybe by the end they're both to blame for continuing with the relationship that they both knew *deep down* was flawed.

And that was probably completely obsolete, off to catch up and find out...

It wasn't. He was acting more like fifth when he stormed off, only as a grown up.

Happy Birhday, Terrah!!!

Same here.

Just going to jump straight into the Pete discussion...

B.O.F (Before Online Fandom), my view of Pete was that he was a sweet but deeply insecure guy with an abundance of natural curiosity, both of which combined to the point where he crossed a line he should not have done, by having investigated Sam and following her.

More than being a 'stalker' per se I believed Pete showed danger signs of being someone with control issues. He was clearly annoyed in the morning after that she couldn't talk about her job, felt that he had a right to know and was p*d off that he couldn't 'guilt' her into telling him. That was the behaviour right before he makes the call to his friend to investigate her. Then his friend tells him he needs to back off but he still follows her at this point because he's too curious/concerned/suspicious to let it go.

It annoys me every time at the end of Chimera that Pete effectively gets what he wants through his poor behaviour; information on Sam's life that should have remained secret. And at the time of it first showing I thought it didn't do Sam any favours as a character that she was prepared to put up with that behaviour as a woman (although in hindsight her flawed inability to handle her personal life does give her a more rounded character).

And my view of Pete really didn't change in his later appearances; a nice guy on the surface with some emotional insecurity that manifests in actions that try and control Sam in some way (proposing, house-buying). As a character, I think Pete certainly demonstrates potential of developing into a paranoid jealous other who emotionally abuses or physically abuses their partner in order to keep them tied to them in some way. But the fact that somewhere between Chimera and Affinity Pete evidently had apologised for his behaviour in Chimera to Sam, demonstrates that he had enough self-awareness that his behaviour was not appropriate.

On entering online fandom, I was also surprised by the depth of hatred that Pete apparently invokes. I didn't consider him a stalker and I still don't (even though in following her I acknowledge he did literally stalk her). Neither do I think stalkers are always truly evil villainous persons who know exactly what they are doing; most of the time they are mentally ill in some way.

For me Fifth is more of a stalker than Pete. Fifth's love for Sam is total and immediate; it's a childlike 'I want so I must have' mentality. He has bouts of temper tantrums when she won't play along (she can clearly see the difference between what she expects from Pete and Fifth in terms of anger). He's obsessive to the point where he recreates Sam so he can have her. For me Fifth is the classic obsessive fan, so in love with the objective of his fantasy that he would destroy the original and recreate her in order to achieve his fantasy.

So while I don't agree necessarily with the interpretation of Pete as evil stalker in fanfic, I don't agree that his behaviour was completely 'innocent'.

In terms of Sam's alleged crimes against Pete; I don't believe Sam up until Gemini consciously used Pete or believed that she didn't love him. I think Sam knew she didn't love him as much as Jack but I think she truly believed she loved him enough. I also believe that, in her belief that Jack no longer felt that way about her (that perhaps he valued her professionally, considered and loved her as friend but no more than that), she thought she was making a sincere attempt at moving on and forming a relationship with a sweet guy who evidently loved her and wanted to be with her.

I think its only after Gemini Sam begins to realise the depth of her self-deception; that she begins to question whether the love she has for Pete is enough; whether she has made a mistake. And I think it's only during the events of Threads that she fully and truly gets that her love for Pete is not enough, that she has made a mistake and that she needs to have an honest conversation with Jack.

And in part, Pete reveals in the break-up scene that he was a willing participant in Sam's 'crime'; he knew he truly didn't have her heart, that a marriage and future with him was not what she ultimately wanted. But he willingly signed up to it because he felt she was worth it. He demonstrates that his emotional insecurity extends to the point where he is incapable of understanding that he deserved better. He also in the break-up scene demonstrates that he isn't that kind of obsessive stalker personality - because ultimately he lets her go without too much of a fight.

Pete in my view is neither victim nor villain in the peice. He's just a sweet but emotionally insecure guy who makes some bad choices.

Yes, i partly agree with this.

Absolutely agree. But I think he does show warning signs that, unheeded, could indicate the potential for behaviour which could go even further than "totally inappropriate" and possibly even dangerous.

I think it's interesting to note that on the summary of the episode here on GW, Amanda's quoted as saying that Sam doesn't realise the extent to which Pete's been stalking her - she's aware, obviously, that he followed her, but she doesn't know about the rest; and then she's just so relieved that he's okay that she doesn't question it. I think if she knew, she'd have been mightily pissed off.



There's a big gap between Pete stalking her and his proposal, though - that isn't until season eight. He didn't propose in Chimera.

I do get why he did what he did - let's face it, we've all had crushes on people we consider "out of our league" - but I think it's absolutely unacceptable behaviour. Obviously it's not in the same league as Fifth for sheer and utter creepy-as-all-hell-ish-ness, but it's pretty icky behaviour for someone she considers a partner.

He's trying to shoehorn his ideal crush into his ideal living scenario without thinking about what she wants - or just trying to gloss over the fact he realises she doesn't want exactly the same things. I also hope that one of the reasons he isn't reacting angrily to her when she breaks up with him is because he's recognised this.

In contrast, Sam's actual ideal fella is all about making sure she lives the career life she wants without stepping on her toes in the process. And then in Threads, they find their middle ground. We hope. *Insert sunset and a pony for them to ride off on here*

Precisely!

[mad_gater]

I agree, he had an innocence about him. I guess what I mean is, for a person to be truly evil, they have to *know* they're evil and doing something very wrong, and then do it anyway. Fifth did evil, yes, but he didn't *know* he was doing evil. He was just striking out out of pain. He's more like a little boy angry over not getting what he wants and throwing a tantrum.

Pete, meanwhile, knew every second he was doing it that he was wrong to stalk Sam and *very* wrong to use government resources to try to get information he wasn't supposed to have. That, IMO, makes for true evil. To know you're doing wrong and why it's wrong, and yet do it anyway.

As for Pete being necessary to the progression of the ship, Sam could have come to the same revelation by dating a lot of guys - without the commitment or the sex.

indeed....

*brandishes potato masher*.....

Ot:

Spoiler:

Arggh! I hate uni stuff! It's so confusing i have to lodge a help form for my payments and crappy! why does it have to be some confusing i'm not even paying my fees! Gosh! i hate Uni already >_<

*cries*

((((((((jess))))))))

You've lost it. You have seriously lost it.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

indeed....

*tries to see if this war fits the criteria for the Catholic Church's teaching on just war....fails*...

nope....just not seein' it....

ROFL...Poor Seahen. (But great poem)

And I feel the war is starting again...no more peace...hippies...ya have to come to defend the peace!

and again OT :

Spoiler:

Got back from my Goa'uld doctor....and I got some antibiotics...I hope I feel now better soon

I hope you feel better as well...((((jann))))

[Pol]

Wow...we'd been enjoying a potato famine for a good long time and now....whoosh!

What sparked the roasted potato feast this time?

As an aside, you'll be glad to know:

Spoiler:

My "special" students (1 Jack and 3 Samantha's, 'special' only because of their names, lol) all passed my classes. <g!>

[jasminaGo]

You sure...I mean...I don't wanna lose my home on the internet...I would get lost...I would be a homeless girl on the web...I mean...we aren't causing any troubles right..so why get rid of the shipper threads? Makes no sense IMHO...

Yes I'm sure... I read all 17 pages of very long posts...and it was stated several times The fact is that there has been a lot of hostility on the forum... and a lot of nasty stuff are being said and done around. Although there has also been a lot of constructive criticism, some of it gets lost along the way, so it's all getting snipped. Darren is trying to make the place a bit more friendly, instead of people focusing on the bad, they'll be encouraged to find something positive and post about that. Although I'm not exactly happy with some of the suggestions, and I don't really see a way to see all of them be realized, it's an effort for the better, but I don't think the ship threads will be in any danger.

[L.A. Doyle]

You sure...I mean...I don't wanna lose my home on the internet...I would get lost...I would be a homeless girl on the web...I mean...we aren't causing any troubles right..so why get rid of the shipper threads? Makes no sense IMHO...

Well, it doesn't make any sense. If they want to get rid of the negativity on the forum, this is not the place to look to do it. *shrugs* Guess we'll see what happens.

[Rachel-Kree]

I got it from the mods themselves Plus you read 17 pages?

i said i was STILL reading... and i didn't found anything YET .... but now i'm scared about it... who knows... i'm on page 9 now...

[starlover]

I got it from the mods themselves

Hmm...Can I ask you then why they would consider the S/J thread as something offensive? I just read the post of darren and I understand his point of view...but I think that in this thread we post about S/J. We have great discussions going on, both on points of negative things that happened to S/J but also positive things. I also think that everyone in this thread, atleast that I know of, respects each other...and I made real friends in it...I wouldn't want to see it go away.

I think, IMHO, that this thread is something good for GW, and it gives us shippers refugee, where else can we talk and express without harm our opinion about Sam/Jack? There will always be people that don't like it. And I think some of us just don't want to talk with "anti-shippers" about S/J. It's good that a place like this exists...even though we all love and like S/J we still have very different opinions about many subjects in the relationship.

So back to the original question, why would the mods and Darren delete the thread? Perhaps it's my one sided part of the story and I look at it at the wrong way...but I don't see any trouble in keeping it.
Perhaps if they delete all other ship threads they should delete this one as well...but this is the same as talking about a Character. Some love her/him others don't.

EDIT: And sorry if the post doesn't make any sense at all...I tried...apparently failing.

[Solo]

Well, it doesn't make any sense. If they want to get rid of the negativity on the forum, this is not the place to look to do it. *shrugs* Guess we'll see what happens.

This. I'm not going to worry too much - this is one of the fluffiest threads I've ever found on any forum, ever. Okay, I was a regular TWOPper for a long while there, and have thick skin, but still.. PENGUINS! I rest my case, your honour.

[L.A. Doyle]

Hmm...Can I ask you then why they would consider the S/J thread as something offensive? I just read the post of darren and I understand his point of view...but I think that in this thread we post about S/J. We have great discussions going on, both on points of negative things that happened to S/J but also positive things. I also think that everyone in this thread, atleast that I know of, respects each other...and I made real friends in it...I wouldn't want to see it go away.

Well, I think if y'all can discuss Pete (being such a hot topic for shippers and all) and still stay as respectful as y'all have...what's going on here I think is what they want for the whole forum.

[Amalthea]

I think the new changes are more about reducing hostility than making the site completely neutral so I think they'll make the first changes to help with that. Speaking for myself, I rarely leave this thread anymore because threads that discuss more current things like Atlantis are populated by some really hostile and rude people. I think the goal of all this is to stop that lest they lose members- which they would have with me were I not part of this ship family! *hugs all*

I think it's part of a larger rude epidemic that is sweeping the world. People are rude everywhere it seems these days, but especially on the internet because of it's anonymity. I'm glad that they want to curb that, so I don't think us shippers will have to worry too much just yet.

[Aveo_amacus]

Guys from what I've read so far
they're NOT touching the Character and Relationship Folders - the thread is safe!
They're concerned mainly with the Show Folder and the more negative. In our thread we're enjoying something good of stargate, that's what the mods are trying to encourage, as long as we're not just sitting here and saying nasty things

[DutchIndeed]

I'm in the positivity club too.
I think, that by removing any ship thread would be cause for negativity around the forums.
We're all pretty mellow, if you compare with the ''open'' threads.
I'm glad they want to change the way things are done here. GW can be a scary place. Out there.

[silly sally]

Wow...we'd been enjoying a potato famine for a good long time and now....whoosh!

What sparked the roasted potato feast this time?

As an aside, you'll be glad to know:

Spoiler:

My "special" students (1 Jack and 3 Samantha's, 'special' only because of their names, lol) all passed my classes. <g!>

Are you sure you weren't biased?