Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[Mary-Jane]

OT Bones:

Spoiler:

S4 :eek; So unfair. And I have S1 on DVD but FCOL they haven't even brought out S2 on DVD here, which apparently is the only way I'll ever get to see it.

OT Bones:

Spoiler:

I thought they did play all of S2 over here. But kind of split it into 2 parts....

[mara-anni]

OT Bones:

Spoiler:

I thought they did play all of S2 over here. But kind of split it into 2 parts....

OT Bones

Spoiler:

Not where I am. They took it off half way through coz of some sporting event that went on forever, tennis maybe? When that was over they still didn't bother putting it back on for months. And then when it finally came back it had jumped straight to S3 I was bummed. But I'm even more irked that the S2 DVDs aren't out here, coz then I wouldn't care if I missed it on TV. You haven't found S2 by any chance have you?

[josiane]

Well said..you are right that it's good to see here that Sam also makes mistakes and isn't a superhero...that she sometimes can't deal with all aspects of who she is...This makes her even more believable IMHO.



You should be...I wish I could type these things even when I'm 100% awake!.

*thinks a lot because she forgot what she was saying...that is because her bro ate her last waffles...*

Oh yeah...I remember...I know I see Sam in S9 as happier more in balance...etc...but when I see jack in Avalon and in Origin...it almost looks like he is...sad...no jokes or whatever from him on those moments...then I wonder why he comes so sad for me over...is it because he is back in Colorado without Sam? Because he is now in DC and not a part of the SGC anymore...or something else? I just found it strange...that Jack, for me, came that...depressed over...even when he is flying in that aircraft with Mitchell...but perhaps it's just me!

I shouldn't be allowed to type these things at all

I know what you mean And I think it is because of the adjustment he's going through and all the changes in his life, which, aside from Sam, he must be thinking are not really all good ones. Someone (probably Jenn, as it's Threads ) posted before about how you can see the weight of the decision coming down on Jack's shoulders in Threads at the moment where Kerry walks out of his office after telling him he should do what he needs to do so he and Sam can be together. So, for Sam, he's basically made a huge sacrifice in his life - going to Washington to fly a desk and play politics, the one thing that Jack would hate to do above almost everything. Add to that the fact that even though this means he and Sam can be together, she's at Area 51 so they're not even together together a lot of the time, and I think I can understand that there's an underlying dissatisfaction. Not with Sam, but with the way his life is that means he can't be with Sam as much as he'd like. Because actually I really think that Jack would have tried what Kerry suggested, and tried to retire after Threads, but Hammond beat him to it and scuppered his plans. So instead of having the time he'd like to build his relationship with Sam, he's stuck doing a job he hates. The only bright spot is that at least it does allow them to be together, however long-distance. Sam, on the other hand, is doing a job she really enjoys, because she's getting uninterrupted time to play with her doohickeys, and then even when she comes back to the SGC it's to continue her SG1 job which she also loved. So there isn't the negative aspect to their situation for her so much. As to Jack in Continuum, well, I think that can be explained by the fact that he's got Sam back on Earth and is also about to retire, from what Sam said in the Trio deleted scene, so maybe finally he can see the happy together carefree future for him and Sam that he's been wanting to have for the past three years.

[Mary-Jane]

OT Bones

Spoiler:

Not where I am. They took it off half way through coz of some sporting event that went on forever, tennis maybe? When that was over they still didn't bother putting it back on for months. And then when it finally came back it had jumped straight to S3 I was bummed. But I'm even more irked that the S2 DVDs aren't out here, coz then I wouldn't care if I missed it on TV. You haven't found S2 by any chance have you?

Bones:

Spoiler:

I think I've only seen S1 dvd. That's so lame! Wow that's strange. Channel 7 played the remainder of season 2 then went straight onto season 3. I just looked at the episode recaps for season 2 and remember watching them all....hmmmm...how peculilar!!! That must be so confusing for you!!!

[babancat]

Ok Ship Family? *waves*

I have a question...

We've been contemplating turning points, like Sam's in Grace and then wondering what Jack's was... However, I have a bit of a ... I guess you could call it an issue...

We are relying on certain 'looks' that are not there, post-Entity for example, so would that then suggest
1. RDA had thought through the backstory and decided that he would play down the ship on his part...
2. That TPTB told him to do so...
3. Or that they were deliberately cutting them out in the editing room, as a nod to the antis, post what has been termed (in the book I'm reading at the mo, anyway) 'the shipper season'

You see I very much believe we get a lot of the ship from the fantastic on-screen chemistry that RDA and AT have. It would seem to me that there must have been a conscious effort for us not to get to see things we had grown accustomed to seeing (IYKWIM)...

Thoughts anyone?

[AstraPerAspera]

Ok Ship Family? *waves*

I have a question...

We've been contemplating turning points, like Sam's in Grace and then wondering what Jack's was... However, I have a bit of a ... I guess you could call it an issue...

We are relying on certain 'looks' that are not there, post-Entity for example, so would that then suggest
1. RDA had thought through the backstory and decided that he would play down the ship on his part...
2. That TPTB told him to do so...
3. Or that they were deliberately cutting them out in the editing room, as a nod to the antis, post what has been termed (in the book I'm reading at the mo, anyway) 'the shipper season'

You see I very much believe we get a lot of the ship from the fantastic on-screen chemistry that RDA and AT have. It would seem to me that there must have been a conscious effort for us not to get to see things we had grown accustomed to seeing (IYKWIM)...

Thoughts anyone?

I think I'm going to go with Number 1 with a touch of Number 2 thrown in. I think RDA has always had a very good grip of Jack's character and what makes him tick...if not consciously than intuitively. And as much as all those moments were deliberately played up in S1-4, I think they were deliberately played down in S5. And I also think there was an element of it being written that way too (Number 2). The latter was both a response to some pressure that they'd gone "too shippy" in S4, but I think it was also a deliberate part of the story telling. I'd point out The Light as evidence for this. The scene of Sam and Jack walking on the beach having that argument about what she's going to call Jack and ending up with them gripping each others vests was so *not* about what she's going to call Jack. It was another alien-device way for them to express what by then had to have started to become a most uncomfortable situation for them...their need for one another that they couldn't express...except that they just had in BTS...and which they now had to repress all over again. And it's this...tension that, to me anyway, suggests that TPTB were already beginning to write the withdrawal from each other that *had* to happen...with Entity of course being the turning point.

So I think TPTB laid out the course...and RDA, understanding Jack and what Jack would have to do...need to do...to distance himself from Sam...executed it perfectly.

[JenniferJF]

A little SG silliness...

On JM's blog there's some sort of feature that automatically generates links to potentially related topics. This was what tonight's "related link" was:

Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)

Nature.com Climate Feedback: Polar bears disappear

Hehehe.

Had to smile.

That's hysterical. One wonders how that was related....

the bolded sentence is the one that bothers me the most, because to see this woman who's stood up against goaulds and killers and even monsters, but is literally leveled by her own VERY human emotions... it's quite a moment to me. it made her very real and normal, and equally endearing and humble.

I agree completely. However, having seen the edited version for a long time before the unedited version, I think that concept still comes across loud and clear - just not with quite the poignancy of actually seeing it there in Threads.

Because that moment when Sam is standing in front of Jack looking terrified, and she admits she's been trying to 'work up the nerve' to tell him something for some time, we the audience can remember scenes like the last scene in Reckoning or towards the beginning of Threads and understand why Sam seemed so nervous around Jack recently and why she kept seeming about to say something she never did.. So we'd seen the sort of internal debate we'd see in the car in the extended version already, we just hadn't known at the time just what we were seeing (foreshadowing). And of course, she hadn't reached the point of desperation when she was able to finally overcome her fear.

Additionally, and IMHO more importantly, we see Jack's amazed reaction to Sam's 'confession' of having to work up the nerve to talk to him. He can't believe it. Because this is SAM - whose faced down Goaul'd. Who can't be afraid of HIM. See, I don't think he ever considered the idea that Sam might be absolutely miserable yet afraid to confront him with her feelings. I think Jack knew she still loved him, but felt she'd given up on having a relationship with him, and was reasonably happy with the life she could have with Pete. He'd assumed, I think, that if she really wanted him, she'd ask... I don't think he could conceive of Sam being afraid of him. But, of course, at the end of the day, behind the P90 and inside the uniform, she's just a woman - or a person - like any other who desperately wants her love returned and and is terrified of having that love rejected. And I think it's not until then that he finally gets that.

And I think, once this truly sinks in and he has the time to consider all that Sam said and was trying to say, he realizes what he's got to do. For Sam. Which is pretty much why he's done most of what he's done for the last few years anyway.

Or as Mara so beautifull said:

This moment is when Jack finally realises that depspite the fact that he feels she'd be better off without him and that he's not good enough, she can't and won't be happy without him. And seeing as her happiness has always been what's paramount to him. He can finally set aside his lack of self worth and be there for her in the way he always wanted to - personally, emotionally. He can reveal his feelings for her in return coz in the end if this is what makes her happy then he'll do it. Just as he was willing to suffer the torment of seeing her with another if he thought she would be truly happy that way.

I think another 'epiphany' moment for Jack is when Sam finally thanks him for simply being there for her.

Cause again, he seems a bit suprised by this response. I can almost imagine him thinking, "That's ALL?" Because I think all along he'd been trying to figure out what she saw in him, what made her choose him, when he found himself so completely unworthy of her. And so I really do think he has a sort of epiphany there as well, realizing all this time all she's wanted from him is what he's always given her.. himself. And all he needs to do in the future is just be there for her, still. And I suspect it's that surge of self-worth - a moment when he feels like he can suddenly do ANYTHING - that gives him the courage to promise 'always' knowing full well all that will entail. That's when I think Jack's world really shifts, and he starts to see himself by whole new definitions - Sams.

Which brings us to Jann's question about the results of all this:

Oh yeah...I remember...I know I see Sam in S9 as happier more in balance...etc...but when I see jack in Avalon and in Origin...it almost looks like he is...sad...no jokes or whatever from him on those moments...then I wonder why he comes so sad for me over...is it because he is back in Colorado without Sam? Because he is now in DC and not a part of the SGC anymore...or something else? I just found it strange...that Jack, for me, came that...depressed over...even when he is flying in that aircraft with Mitchell...but perhaps it's just me!

See, I've never seen depressed.

I think Jack is more serious than we've ever seen him, which would make sense considering the weight of the responsibility he's taken on, both professionally and personally. However, we've seen him 'responsible' before without being serious. I think it's more that Jack now takes himself seriously. Again, because he now has a sense of personal worth he hadn't had before. There's no more need of hiding his lack of self-worth behind sarcasm and self-deprecating humor. So he doesn't.

And I'd say his whole attitude, rather than 'sad,' always strikes me more as 'bemused.' Which is to say, on the surface, he should be miserable - he's lost nearly everything: his home, his job, his friends. Everything that was comfortable and familiar. And, I believe, he's traded it all for ONE thing: a personal relationship with Sam. Yet I really don't see sadness. I see puzzlement - cause I think he's happy. And is shocked every morning he wakes up and finds he is. There's almost a sense of wonder about him... Like "pinch me, I'm dreaming.." But definitely not sad. Because I see moments like this:


and the comment that goes with it: "When you're a general, you get to pretty much do anything you want" (to parapharase) which seem to show me a man very much satisfied with where he's at in life.

Plus from Continuum there's this:

Spoiler:

Which I think is one of the most natural, relaxed, and simply happy smiles I can recall seeing on Jack's face EVER. Again, indicative of a man who, despite everything, really is "doing well."

We are relying on certain 'looks' that are not there, post-Entity for example, so would that then suggest
1. RDA had thought through the backstory and decided that he would play down the ship on his part...
2. That TPTB told him to do so...
3. Or that they were deliberately cutting them out in the editing room, as a nod to the antis, post what has been termed (in the book I'm reading at the mo, anyway) 'the shipper season'

You see I very much believe we get a lot of the ship from the fantastic on-screen chemistry that RDA and AT have. It would seem to me that there must have been a conscious effort for us not to get to see things we had grown accustomed to seeing (IYKWIM)...

Thoughts anyone?

I think, as with all TV ships, there has to be 'reasons' for cooling off the relationship. Otherwise, you get resolution way before the show is over and in TV Land that's generally considered a VERY BAD idea. One of the brilliant things, IMHO, about S/J and Stargate is that it's always been done wonderfully naturally - flowing organically, as it were, out of the characters and the situations without all the insanely obvious excuses found in most TV ships (thought, it's against the rules of TPTB' on Charmed is my personal all time favorite.. never thought anyone would give the REAL reason... )

But I digress.

My point is, I think it was intentional. I'm not sure who was steering, but I'm fairly sure someone was. And had been. And still is. And I think, thank goodness, 'they' - all of 'them' - have generally taken the long-view on Sam and Jack and their character and relationship growth, and have never really rushed it, or taken strange unforeseen and bizarre left turns with virtually no explanation, or used sudden random shootings/inheritances/clone eating frogs/secret spouses...

Um.

I could go on. But you get the idea. (cynical much? you ask)

All TV shows do it. I just think Stargate has generally done it BETTER. Which is why, of course, I'm here.

Does this make sense? Cause I've been up a long time, and I'm not sure it answer's the question. At all.

[Devilish Me]

Ok Ship Family? *waves*

I have a question...

We've been contemplating turning points, like Sam's in Grace and then wondering what Jack's was... However, I have a bit of a ... I guess you could call it an issue...

We are relying on certain 'looks' that are not there, post-Entity for example, so would that then suggest
1. RDA had thought through the backstory and decided that he would play down the ship on his part...
2. That TPTB told him to do so...
3. Or that they were deliberately cutting them out in the editing room, as a nod to the antis, post what has been termed (in the book I'm reading at the mo, anyway) 'the shipper season'

You see I very much believe we get a lot of the ship from the fantastic on-screen chemistry that RDA and AT have. It would seem to me that there must have been a conscious effort for us not to get to see things we had grown accustomed to seeing (IYKWIM)...

Thoughts anyone?

Me too! I don't think it could be played out if there wasn't anything between those two.

I think it was the way the script was written. So that would be TPTB. But it felt natural that they'd drift apart. At least that Jack would. And RDA had to play it so that it would look that way. I guess it's a combination of TPTB, and RDA.
I kinda always see him as the guy who guards himself very much (not physically, but emotionally). And his walls climbed up imo after Enemies...

I don't think that TPTB would've done anything out of need to satisfy anty-shippers, or shippers. I mean, how long has the ship lasted? And we still don't get confirmation. But we do get small bits and peaces. So that would mean they're on our side, right? The main story is never focused mainly on attraction between Sam and Jack.
Seriously, I really don't think they're influenced by shippers or anty-shippers when writing Sam or Jack, they just do what comes naturally for the characters. And it can be an army of antis out there, that still won't stop BW from writing that romantic scene.

I'm ranting, aren't I?

[Alan]

Me too! I don't think it could be played out if there wasn't anything between those two.

I think it was the way the script was written. So that would be TPTB. But it felt natural that they'd drift apart. At least that Jack would. And RDA had to play it so that it would look that way. I guess it's a combination of TPTB, and RDA.
I kinda always see him as the guy who guards himself very much (not physically, but emotionally). And his walls climbed up imo after Enemies...

I don't think that TPTB would've done anything out of need to satisfy anty-shippers, or shippers. I mean, how long has the ship lasted? And we still don't get confirmation. But we do get small bits and peaces. So that would mean they're on our side, right? The main story is never focused mainly on attraction between Sam and Jack.
Seriously, I really don't think they're influenced by shippers or anty-shippers when writing Sam or Jack, they just do what comes naturally for the characters. And it can be an army of antis out there, that still won't stop BW from writing that romantic scene.

I'm ranting, aren't I?

I agree with everything there. My thoughts entirely.

As for ranting...thank you. I like it when you rant. Please continue...it just saves me from doing it.

[mara-anni]

Ok Ship Family? *waves*

I have a question...

We've been contemplating turning points, like Sam's in Grace and then wondering what Jack's was... However, I have a bit of a ... I guess you could call it an issue...

We are relying on certain 'looks' that are not there, post-Entity for example, so would that then suggest
1. RDA had thought through the backstory and decided that he would play down the ship on his part...
2. That TPTB told him to do so...
3. Or that they were deliberately cutting them out in the editing room, as a nod to the antis, post what has been termed (in the book I'm reading at the mo, anyway) 'the shipper season'

You see I very much believe we get a lot of the ship from the fantastic on-screen chemistry that RDA and AT have. It would seem to me that there must have been a conscious effort for us not to get to see things we had grown accustomed to seeing (IYKWIM)...

Thoughts anyone?

Well I was gonna try and answer that, but then I think I'll just refer to APA and Jenn

That's hysterical. One wonders how that was related....

Spoiler:

I agree completely. However, having seen the edited version for a long time before the unedited version, I think that concept still comes across loud and clear - just not with quite the poignancy of actually seeing it there in Threads.

Because that moment when Sam is standing in front of Jack looking terrified, and she admits she's been trying to 'work up the nerve' to tell him something for some time, we the audience can remember scenes like the last scene in Reckoning or towards the beginning of Threads and understand why Sam seemed so nervous around Jack recently and why she kept seeming about to say something she never did.. So we'd seen the sort of internal debate we'd see in the car in the extended version already, we just hadn't known at the time just what we were seeing (foreshadowing). And of course, she hadn't reached the point of desperation when she was able to finally overcome her fear.

Additionally, and IMHO more importantly, we see Jack's amazed reaction to Sam's 'confession' of having to work up the nerve to talk to him. He can't believe it. Because this is SAM - whose faced down Goaul'd. Who can't be afraid of HIM. See, I don't think he ever considered the idea that Sam might be absolutely miserable yet afraid to confront him with her feelings. I think Jack knew she still loved him, but felt she'd given up on having a relationship with him, and was reasonably happy with the life she could have with Pete. He'd assumed, I think, that if she really wanted him, she'd ask... I don't think he could conceive of Sam being afraid of him. But, of course, at the end of the day, behind the P90 and inside the uniform, she's just a woman - or a person - like any other who desperately wants her love returned and and is terrified of having that love rejected. And I think it's not until then that he finally gets that.

And I think, once this truly sinks in and he has the time to consider all that Sam said and was trying to say, he realizes what he's got to do. For Sam. Which is pretty much why he's done most of what he's done for the last few years anyway.

Or as Mara so beautifull said:I think another 'epiphany' moment for Jack is when Sam finally thanks him for simply being there for her.

Cause again, he seems a bit suprised by this response. I can almost imagine him thinking, "That's ALL?" Because I think all along he'd been trying to figure out what she saw in him, what made her choose him, when he found himself so completely unworthy of her. And so I really do think he has a sort of epiphany there as well, realizing all this time all she's wanted from him is what he's always given her.. himself. And all he needs to do in the future is just be there for her, still. And I suspect it's that surge of self-worth - a moment when he feels like he can suddenly do ANYTHING - that gives him the courage to promise 'always' knowing full well all that will entail. That's when I think Jack's world really shifts, and he starts to see himself by whole new definitions - Sams.

Wow Jenn. This was an uh huh moment for me. I was sure that once he'd finally understood Sam's need for him and they got together that his own self worth would have risen I think. But I could never quite pin piont the actual turning point. The moment where he starts to see himself through Sam's eyes. Or at the least accepts that she see him as worthy. I thought it was maybe coz we never really got to 'see' them together properly. But now that you've said this, I see you're absolutely right. I've always agreed that he does seem surprised when she thanks him for being there, he's quite taken aback, but I never realised why until this moment. Fantastic and beautifully said!

Which brings us to Jann's question about the results of all this:
See, I've never seen depressed.

I think Jack is more serious than we've ever seen him, which would make sense considering the weight of the responsibility he's taken on, both professionally and personally. However, we've seen him 'responsible' before without being serious. I think it's more that Jack now takes himself seriously. Again, because he now has a sense of personal worth he hadn't had before. There's no more need of hiding his lack of self-worth behind sarcasm and self-deprecating humor. So he doesn't.

And I'd say his whole attitude, rather than 'sad,' always strikes me more as 'bemused.' Which is to say, on the surface, he should be miserable - he's lost nearly everything: his home, his job, his friends. Everything that was comfortable and familiar. And, I believe, he's traded it all for ONE thing: a personal relationship with Sam. Yet I really don't see sadness. I see puzzlement - cause I think he's happy. And is shocked every morning he wakes up and finds he is. There's almost a sense of wonder about him... Like "pinch me, I'm dreaming.." But definitely not sad. Because I see moments like this:


and the comment that goes with it: "When you're a general, you get to pretty much do anything you want" (to parapharase) which seem to show me a man very much satisfied with where he's at in life.

Plus from Continuum there's this:

Spoiler:

Which I think is one of the most natural, relaxed, and simply happy smiles I can recall seeing on Jack's face EVER. Again, indicative of a man who, despite everything, really is "doing well."

And I find myself thanking you again Jenn. I feel much better. Great way of looking at it and I think you're right.

I think, as with all TV ships, there has to be 'reasons' for cooling off the relationship. Otherwise, you get resolution way before the show is over and in TV Land that's generally considered a VERY BAD idea. One of the brilliant things, IMHO, about S/J and Stargate is that it's always been done wonderfully naturally - flowing organically, as it were, out of the characters and the situations without all the insanely obvious excuses found in most TV ships (thought, it's against the rules of TPTB' on Charmed is my personal all time favorite.. never thought anyone would give the REAL reason... )

But I digress.

My point is, I think it was intentional. I'm not sure who was steering, but I'm fairly sure someone was. And had been. And still is. And I think, thank goodness, 'they' - all of 'them' - have generally taken the long-view on Sam and Jack and their character and relationship growth, and have never really rushed it, or taken strange unforeseen and bizarre left turns with virtually no explanation, or used sudden random shootings/inheritances/clone eating frogs/secret spouses...

Um.

I could go on. But you get the idea. (cynical much? you ask)

All TV shows do it. I just think Stargate has generally done it BETTER. Which is why, of course, I'm here.

Does this make sense? Cause I've been up a long time, and I'm not sure it answer's the question. At all.[/SPOILERS]

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Spoiler:

Me too! I don't think it could be played out if there wasn't anything between those two.

I think it was the way the script was written. So that would be TPTB. But it felt natural that they'd drift apart. At least that Jack would. And RDA had to play it so that it would look that way. I guess it's a combination of TPTB, and RDA.
I kinda always see him as the guy who guards himself very much (not physically, but emotionally). And his walls climbed up imo after Enemies...

I don't think that TPTB would've done anything out of need to satisfy anty-shippers, or shippers. I mean, how long has the ship lasted? And we still don't get confirmation. But we do get small bits and peaces. So that would mean they're on our side, right? The main story is never focused mainly on attraction between Sam and Jack.

Seriously, I really don't think they're influenced by shippers or anty-shippers when writing Sam or Jack, they just do what comes naturally for the characters. And it can be an army of antis out there, that still won't stop BW from writing that romantic scene.

I'm ranting, aren't I?

Rant away

[mara-anni]

I know what you mean And I think it is because of the adjustment he's going through and all the changes in his life, which, aside from Sam, he must be thinking are not really all good ones. Someone (probably Jenn, as it's Threads ) posted before about how you can see the weight of the decision coming down on Jack's shoulders in Threads at the moment where Kerry walks out of his office after telling him he should do what he needs to do so he and Sam can be together. So, for Sam, he's basically made a huge sacrifice in his life - going to Washington to fly a desk and play politics, the one thing that Jack would hate to do above almost everything. Add to that the fact that even though this means he and Sam can be together, she's at Area 51 so they're not even together together a lot of the time, and I think I can understand that there's an underlying dissatisfaction. Not with Sam, but with the way his life is that means he can't be with Sam as much as he'd like. Because actually I really think that Jack would have tried what Kerry suggested, and tried to retire after Threads, but Hammond beat him to it and scuppered his plans. So instead of having the time he'd like to build his relationship with Sam, he's stuck doing a job he hates. The only bright spot is that at least it does allow them to be together, however long-distance. Sam, on the other hand, is doing a job she really enjoys, because she's getting uninterrupted time to play with her doohickeys, and then even when she comes back to the SGC it's to continue her SG1 job which she also loved. So there isn't the negative aspect to their situation for her so much. As to Jack in Continuum, well, I think that can be explained by the fact that he's got Sam back on Earth and is also about to retire, from what Sam said in the Trio deleted scene, so maybe finally he can see the happy together carefree future for him and Sam that he's been wanting to have for the past three years.

Oh nicely said!! How did I miss this one? I tend to agree with you here too Josiane.

I can definately see what Jenn is saying and am happy with that idea. But I also agree with Josiane here.

Lets face it, being stuck in Washington, wearing his service dress (I remembered Claudia ), and going to meeting after meeting with the big wig polical types would NOT be Jack's idea of a good time. So I can see that aspect of his life being rather dissatisfying.

I do think he's happy. Very happy and as Jenn suggested, probably a bit surprised by that, esp given the fact he's stuck in Washington. But I also think that there would be that small part that was dissatisfied with the situation - namely that he doesn't really like his job so much and that he hates the enforced seperation from Sam. Just as I think Sam felt like this in S4 of Atlantis.

I also think that Jack would have resigned, and taken command of the SGC as a civillian as Kerry suggested. By the S8 finale (which was supposed to be the series finale) I really did feel that that was the decision that had been made as Sam and Jack sat on the dock by his pond. And this is exactly what happened in my world

And I agree that that cut scene in Trio kinda speaks to the fact that as much as they're both happy, they'll be much happier once they can live close to one another.

So this was a very long winded way, that makes not sense of saying that I think Jack would be feeling a combination of what Josiane said above and what Jenn said

[JenniferJF]

I'd meant to reply to this, too, then got distracted. Not to the bits about Jack, cause I don't think we see enough of him really, to know for sure. Only I don't see sad at all with him, so can't really speak to that. But Josi also said:

Sam, on the other hand, is doing a job she really enjoys, because she's getting uninterrupted time to play with her doohickeys, and then even when she comes back to the SGC it's to continue her SG1 job which she also loved. So there isn't the negative aspect to their situation for her so much

I actually see a bit more dissatisfaction with Sam than I do with Jack. (though, as I said, we don't see much of him so it's hard to say for sure.) I see this for example in her reaction to Cam's thumping the SG-1 badge back on her shoulder (in EDM), in which she doesn't seem at all truly happy, but rather resigned. And her attitude in her lab (4 Horseman and Arthur's Mantle spring to mind) - and in the field (OtG for example) - seems more resigned and professional than it had before. She seems, iow, much less excited to be there doing the job than she was before. I mean, she doesn't even sleep in the lab anymore, even with cool Ancient doohickey's to play with...

Which isn't to say, overall, she doesn't still 'love her job.' Only, as I think she's learned, and her needing to learn it is the reason for Jacob's fairly sad response to her saying it in Threads, you don't, really, LOVE a job. You may do a job well, you may enjoy it at times and get satisfaction from it, but it shouldn't be your life. I get the sense this is true for Sam in S9...

EDIT: Because I'm obviously more tired than I realized, I forgot to go back to your original point. I think the stress of their situation does, in fact, effect Sam, and we see that in her reactions to being back at the SGC. I think what that proves, really, is that the overall happiness of her attitude in general, her confidence et al, must not come from her job, but from something outside it

Though I tend to think the hardest thing about their current situation, which we don't really get to see, is the fact that Sam's walking through that gate, or in Pegasus, and Jack knows perfectly well he could find a 'telegram' waiting for him at any time... That probably eclipses personal job inconveniences on his worry list *hugs Jack* But that's a worry he'd probably never show, anyway.

[mara-anni]

I'd meant to reply to this, too, then got distracted. Not to the bits about Jack, cause I don't think we see enough of him really, to know for sure. Only I don't see sad at all with him, so can't really speak to that. But Josi also said:I actually see a bit more dissatisfaction with Sam than I do with Jack. (though, as I said, we don't see much of him so it's hard to say for sure.) I see this for example in her reaction to Cam's thumping the SG-1 badge back on her shoulder (in EDM), in which she doesn't seem at all truly happy, but rather resigned. And her attitude in her lab (4 Horseman and Arthur's Mantle spring to mind) - and in the field (OtG for example) - seems more resigned and professional than it had before. She seems, iow, much less excited to be there doing the job than she was before. I mean, she doesn't even sleep in the lab anymore, even with cool Ancient doohickey's to play with...

Which isn't to say, overall, she doesn't still 'love her job.' Only, as I think she's learned, and her needing to learn it is the reason for Jacob's fairly sad response to her saying it in Threads, you don't, really, LOVE a job. You may do a job well, you may enjoy it at times and get satisfaction from it, but it shouldn't be your life. I get the sense this is true for Sam in S9...

I get that sense too. OUCH!! Err...at least I would if there was a S9

And I get the same sense from her in SGA S4. She's happy, and she likes her job, command of Atlantis is a great opportunity and challenge and it means a lot to her, but there really is someplace else she'd rather be

And who could blame her?

*glares at PB for not working and letting me post a particulary thunkaliscious pic of Jack*

EDIT: Well I'm off to bed shippers. Thanks for the great discussions, it was fun. See you on the morrow

[suse]

A little SG silliness...

On JM's blog there's some sort of feature that automatically generates links to potentially related topics. This was what tonight's "related link" was:

Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)

Nature.com Climate Feedback: Polar bears disappear

Hehehe.

Had to smile.

I can see why it made you smile a bit.

But the penguin habitat is disappearing almost as fast.

suse

[starlover]

*grumbles first*

Oye... my MQ wasn't working...so I'm trying to say this outta my head...

Mara no school on sunday eh And can't do computering while I'm on work...no fair!

On the Jack thing. I think you are right, it wasn't really Jack-like ho he behaved in S9 ...it was...different...but perhaps he had already slowly grown towards that in S8...being in command...all the paperwork. He wasn't doing anymore what he loved to do, going offworld.
I have to agree with you that it's in Continuum better...also in S10 IMHO...

Jenn depressed perhaps wasn't the right word...but I really found it sad. I can agree with you that it perhaps is because he had to leave everyone behind for going to DC...and if we think right... that he was getting Sam...and pursueing a relationship with her! he is happy on one hand but sad on the other hand...(if you can call it sad/depressed...)

That's it for now...can't remember more..plus dinner is ready...and gotta go to work!