Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Akamaimom]

And yet more proof of the love of Sam and Jack:

I'm continuing my watch through. I'm watching Death Knell now and I'm right at the end, after Jack saves Sam. And then snuggles her. Right there. On the battlefield.

He knows she's dating a professional stalker. He doesn't care. She needs him and he loves her and that's all that matters to him.

Ok and now I'm all teary because Jacob just told Sam he can't come back for awhile. Sheesh. This show.

AAAAaaaand that's why we love it!

[mamageek]

AAAAaaaand that's why we love it!

Exactly.

[Kunoichi]

That's what JM once said in an interview. Carter had a man who wasn't going to die; they just couldn't be together romantically while serving in the AF together.

And I think AT's idea was more of a one off. She dates a guy, he doesn't die; she moves on (back to Jack). Giving her a jerk of a boyfriend like and have Carter actually agree to marry him was just really bad writing and hurt her character. But for me it also demonstrates how little the PTB cared for Sam's character in later years. She was seriously tossed overboard toward the end of the series.

The Sam and Pete thing doesn’t bother me as much as other issues with the treatment of Sam in the later seasons. The way I look on the S&P relationship is that after Grace, she was trying to move on from Jack, so IMHO she went for a man who was the polar opposite of the type she normally goes for (she could just have easily gone for a Jack clone). Her normal type seems to be the Jack type, a strong commanding alpa male. In Pete she has someone she sees as sweet and caring, but he really doesn’t come across as the alpha male, even his sense of humour is different from Jack. Jack’s is sarcastic, witty, observational humour, Pete is more ‘jokey’ in his. In trying to move on she is willing to overlook some of the stuff Pete does (the background check, the stalking etc), she manages, for a short time, to build up Pete into the ‘perfect’ boyfriend by wearing rose tinted glasses to enhance his good points (he’s sweet, attentive and caring) and ignoring his bad points (manipulative and untrusting). I don’t think this weakens her as a character, it presents her as a flawed human being, rather than the perfect Sam she gets criticised for. She isn’t the first person to make mistakes in a relationship, she certainly isn't the first person who glosses over a partner’s failings in an effort to obtain a normal, socially acceptable relationship. To a certain extent I find it realistic for the character - she's not a social butterfly, she doesn't date a huge amount, she probably hasn't had a good female role model in her life since her mother died, so she isn't an expert on men in the romantic, dating sense. As a geeky scientist myself I know people like Sam and recognise some of her 'issues' because, although they could be considered stereotypical, stereotypes are usually based on reality to a certain extent!

I have far more problems with some of the writing of her work personality (giving codes to Ba’al etc), because she had always been portrayed as an uber-competent professional who was an expert in her field and very good at her job, whereas she was shown from the early episodes to have a less than perfect record in relationships – Jonas Hanson. So even though the Pete character was badly written I can (in my mind) argue that there are reasons for the way Sam put up with him in an effort to get something of a normal life, be happy and move on from Jack (even though we all know that her and Jack were destined to be together )

[mamageek]

Kunoichi while I totally get what you're saying (and even agree with it! When put that way it does absolutely make sense)....I still don't like it.

As I commented to a friend of mine just after watching Chimera the other day...

"Sorry, Pete. Nobody gets in the way of my OTPs and escapes my wrath."

[hedwig]

Actually, I've heard Amanda went to the writers and said she wanted a boyfriend that didn't die on her. This is an instance where "Be careful what you wish for" applies

That too. Yes. I heard the same thing. However, I still blame the writers for giving her what we got in "Chimera". They could still have done "Chimera", but had Sam dump Pete at the end of the episode for his poor behavior. I would have much preferred to see some fall-out from Pete's "stalking" and background check than having it just be ignored.

[hlndncr]

Kunoichi I totally agree with you about the terrible writing of Sam in later years. She was either made to look incompetent or completely sidelined.

[siles]

That too. Yes. I heard the same thing. However, I still blame the writers for giving her what we got in "Chimera". They could still have done "Chimera", but had Sam dump Pete at the end of the episode for his poor behavior. I would have much preferred to see some fall-out from Pete's "stalking" and background check than having it just be ignored.

I think Pete was intended to be a one off, but then TPTB were surprised with the renewal for S8 and he got a mention on "Resurrection" one of the last episodes to be filmed in season 7. Amanda was not surprised that Sam accepted Pete's proposal, but she was surprised that Sam accepted it during a mission and Pete patted her behind

[XFchemist]

wowww you're chatty!
too bad I can't check GW anymore at work! not even during my lunch break! jackass boss blocked almost every funny site (FB, twitter, YT, forums...)!

I need my S/J dose!!!!!!!!

[Kunoichi]

Kunoichi while I totally get what you're saying (and even agree with it! When put that way it does absolutely make sense)....I still don't like it.

As I commented to a friend of mine just after watching Chimera the other day...

"Sorry, Pete. Nobody gets in the way of my OTPs and escapes my wrath."

I can understand that view to a certain extent! I suppose my justification of S&P was that it allowed Sam to get the whole 'perfect boyfriend/normal lifestyle' issues out of her system and made her realise that she didn't need to go looking elsewhere for love - she had more than a lot of people could ever hope for with Jack!

That too. Yes. I heard the same thing. However, I still blame the writers for giving her what we got in "Chimera". They could still have done "Chimera", but had Sam dump Pete at the end of the episode for his poor behavior. I would have much preferred to see some fall-out from Pete's "stalking" and background check than having it just be ignored.

It would have been good to see some fallout from the whole Pete incident, rather than the crappy 'oh well, we'll just give him clearance then' rubbish the writers gave us instead. Mind you, my view of the majority of the writing in the last couple of seasons is not something that should be repeated in decent company!

Kunoichi I totally agree with you about the terrible writing of Sam in later years. She was either made to look incompetent or completely sidelined.

I hated the way they split the 'Sam stuff' between the other characters (Cam in command and Vala doing all the ex-host things etc) and by doing so (IMHO) they weakened not only Sam but new characters as well. They did have a horrible habit of sacrificing character integrity for cheap plot devices or 'comedy' moments (I use the term 'comedy' here very, very loosely!) because they had run out of the sort of clever ideas and witty dialogue that made the earlier seasons so enjoyable to me.

[hedwig]

I think Pete was intended to be a one off, but then TPTB were surprised with the renewal for S8 and he got a mention on "Resurrection" one of the last episodes to be filmed in season 7. Amanda was not surprised that Sam accepted Pete's proposal, but she was surprised that Sam accepted it during a mission and Pete patted her behind

Apparently, Peter DeLuise (David's brother) was surprised that his brother patted AT/Sam's behind as well, since it wasn't scripted. And while I don't remember for sure, I think he was rather irritated at David for having done so.

They did have a horrible habit of sacrificing character integrity for cheap plot devices or 'comedy' moments (I use the term 'comedy' here very, very loosely!) because they had run out of the sort of clever ideas and witty dialogue that made the earlier seasons so enjoyable to me.

I'm pretty sure that sacrificing character integrity can be blamed on shifting show runners, since I very much doubt that Brad Wright would have done that sort of thing had he still been in charge of SG1 (he'd moved over to SGA by that time). (*ooops! did I say that?*)

[fems]

Oh thank god I missed the pat on her six. Ive only seen the whole episode once and when I do need to check things I skip those Sam/Pete moments (or check the transcript if I need to know what was said between them).

[dipsofjazz]

Apparently, Peter DeLuise (David's brother) was surprised that his brother patted AT/Sam's behind as well, since it wasn't scripted. And while I don't remember for sure, I think he was rather irritated at David for having done so.

I'm pretty sure that sacrificing character integrity can be blamed on shifting show runners, since I very much doubt that Brad Wright would have done that sort of thing had he still been in charge of SG1 (he'd moved over to SGA by that time). (*ooops! did I say that?*)

When the episode originally aired, remember all the threads about how awful Pete was as a character. There was an uproar, and not just from shippers. Many non-shippers and anti-shippers hated the character too.
Also remember that Robert Cooper then had a childish tantrum and told us we all had 'issues'. This is why, what would have been a one-episode character, was brought back for more.

As for 2010, one has to remember when the episode was filmed, and the general fashions of the time. I like the outfit Sam wears at Jack's cabin. (although I don't really think much of the date dress in Chimera).

[Kunoichi]

I'm pretty sure that sacrificing character integrity can be blamed on shifting show runners, since I very much doubt that Brad Wright would have done that sort of thing had he still been in charge of SG1 (he'd moved over to SGA by that time). (*ooops! did I say that?*)

When the episode originally aired, remember all the threads about how awful Pete was as a character. There was an uproar, and not just from shippers. Many non-shippers and anti-shippers hated the character too.
Also remember that Robert Cooper then had a childish tantrum and told us we all had 'issues'. This is why, what would have been a one-episode character, was brought back for more.

I'm so very, very glad I was taking a break from fandom during this stuff and so didn't know about the behaviour of the show runners until fairly recently! It possibly would have stopped me watching the last 2 seasons altogether (although part of me wonders if that would have been such a bad thing)!

As for 2010, one has to remember when the episode was filmed, and the general fashions of the time. I like the outfit Sam wears at Jack's cabin. (although I don't really think much of the date dress in Chimera).

Yay, someone else who likes Sam's 2010 cabin outfit! I didn't really like the date dress either - but then I'm not really a dress person at the best of times!

[hlndncr]

I just want to say how much I love the Advent art. I was just looking at it again because it makes me smile when I need a pick me up.

Can't wait to share the rest of it with everyone!

[mamageek]

So after watching Death Knell and thinking about Grace today, I made something.
I'm new at photoshop, so it's not really all that great, but I'm fairly happy with how it came out so I thought I'd share