Why are the writers so afraid of romantic relationships between the characters?

[Cautious Explorer]

I would say that a big part of why they don't commit to a relationship between any of the main characters is that they are afraid of upsetting other viewers.

If, for example, they commit to a Sam/Jack ship, show their wedding, them living happily together, etc, the while they may please Sam/Jack shippers, they're going to upset fans who pair one or both characters with another character because this will essentially mean that their favoured pairing isn't ever going to happen and fans who are opposed to Sam/Jack ship for other reasons.

At this point, I think that the Sam/Jack ship has come so far that it needs to be resolved but I think that if it is resolved, it will be in the movies or on Atlantis. Ironically, it probably has a better chance now that SG-1 is all but over.

You do have a point. But I don't think those that ship other relationships would have such a problem if the writers hadn't slipped in a hint now and then that they can run with. That's the big question for me. Why create these little hints if it's not a direction the writers want or intend to take? That's when it goes into the realm of soap opera for me.

In Firefly, Zoe and Wash were a couple. The writers intended this. They didn't have Zoe making eyes at Mal or Wash sharing a special moment with River just to keep the viewers guessing.

When the writers purposely set up a relationship and carry it through, it can work. It's all the hints at other possibilities or endless maybe they will/maybe the won't that wears me down.

I don't think they're afraid to write relationships, but SGA/SG1 is not a soap opera and to be perfectly honest seeing people continuously sucking each others faces off, doesn't appeal to me, and i'm both a shipper and non shipper respectively I like that people can see what they want to see without it being to overt, I like the UST, it makes things interesting, litlle looks, certain glances, words here and there. But overt? Not for me, and I don't think it would fit in with the whole atmosphere to be honest.

However, I would like to see resolutions to certain things, if it's been clear from the onset, but not until the very end.

You're right that UST can be interesting, but only for a limited period of time. It has to end at some point or nobody's going to care anymore.

I've seen relationships on TV that don't involve the couple groping at each other ever minute, especially when they're at work. Of course, my mind has gone blank, so I can't give a good example, but it has been done. And a couple in a committed relationship can share a glance or word here and there just as well as those in a budding relationship IMO.

[Linda06]

We're clearly not on the same page (but that's cool too). Also, can you recount any mission that would have been put it into jeapordy if Sheppard & Teyla were involved?

So SpyDude,your a JT shipper huh....You should pop on over to the JT thread,you'll have a blast!

Killdeer,Camy,you guys are a riot I'm mean that in a good way of course!

I don't think it would jeapordise an missions if John and Teyla got together,i think there's is a completely different scenario to Jack and Sam's.....Um did that make sense....That's just my humble opinion of course

[SpyDude]

Hmmm...Kill that is interesting. I have missed so many episodes and seasons that I can't really formulate an argument on this one whether to agree or disagree, but I've never thought of actually looking at it from this point of view..can you give an example of where you think that things were affected or could have run differently if there wasn't an attraction? I"m not trying to put you on the spot, I"m trying to visualize this....*wink*

Now, don't go there Kill...John and Teyla are perfecto! Nothing would disturb that relationship. It will be interesting how their friendship is going to be affected by this new changes in Season 4. I think this will definetly give us an idea of where this duo is going.

For example, in Irresponsible, you saw how Teyla just stood her ground in front of Sheppard and I strongly believe that even if they were sharing a bed that wouldn't have changed besides the fact that maybe that night things might have gotten a bit of ......

Moving on...

Another perfect example is in TLG...when Teyla had to choose whether to shoot John or not while possessed by Thalen...I think examples like this only strengthen their relationship because I think that because they have built this bond now, it won't affect them in the end if they ever move on to the next level.

But that is just my opinion! *wink*

Spydude...you should come to the JT discussion thread! Those girls in there will love you and I promise, you don't have to take your shirt off.

Lol, I never had a problem with men taking their shirts off, I had a problem with women NOT taking their tops off Also, in some way, this topic has kinda turned into another Teyla/Sheppard Shippers thread. I certainyl take some of the blame for that. But I also love Sam/Jack & Daniel/Vala (I was almost crying when their memories were wiped for lack of a better word, in 'Unending'). A big dissapointment.

I guess I'll come check out the Teyla/Sheppard thread, but not today. Sometime tommorrow.

[Jeyla4ever]

Name one, any one. As team leader, Sheppard has to be impartial to his team. That's why regs forbid a military commander to be involved with someone under his command. Even if there is no actual discrimination involved, the leader opens himself up to the appearance of discrimination, and accusations of favoritism. It's not a good idea.

Let me be clear here. I have huge HUGE issues with superior/subordinate relationships, even out of the military. I hated House/Cameron on House, I hated Jack/Sam on Without A Trace. I think they're extremely unprofessional in every situation. You might say it's a hotbutton issue for me. I don't have any less of a problem with Shep & Teyla than I did with Jack & Sam just because Teyla is not military. To me, it's still the same thing. She's still under Shep's command.

Well, she chooses to be in John's team. But remember when she got shot down by Ellia in Instinct...when John told Ronon to stay with her and Teyla woke up, and Ronon told her that Sheppard order him to..she said to him..there are exceptions, and when Ronon asked who decides or makes those exceptions, she clearly said, we do! meaning, she chooses to follow John but she's clearly not under his command and the military can't order her or Ronon to do so. So the way I see her position in his team is like a husband and wife working in the same company or in the same work place.

I do agree that there are instances where it clearly doesn't work...but take for example The West Wing...Donna and Josh worked very well together and they complimented each other beautifully working side by side and their attraction occurred after they made that relationship in the work place that built upon their feelings towards one another.

I think John and Teyla would continue to work well together because they both have one purpose in mind, to defeat the Wraith, to protect Atlantis and the Pegasus Galaxy from impending doom.

What's the worst case scenario, that either one risk their lives to save another? they've already done that...John has saved her and the others many times and that isn't going to stop after he forms a relationship..and so has Teyla. And they both understand their sacrifice, and yet, both are willing to have relationships. John wants to have a family and even moreso, he sees the Pegasus Galaxy as his home now. And Teyla wants a relationship as well as shown in Sunday and even as far back in Sanctuary when she questioned John about having feelings for others.

So, it's not like either one of them is opposed to the idea of a serious relationship while still working it's simply whether they want to be with each other or not.

Uh, I think I"m rambling!

[Frostfox]

No it compromised the characters, in part IMO because it destroyed the mentor/student aspect of their relationship. It made both characters look unprofessional at times, and it negated Jack's authority as a leader. Jack was a stronger leader in the years before his attraction to Sam was a "thing". All this is my opinion of course.

The thing I loved about the early Sam and Jack interaction was how special it was; do you know how unusual it is to get a leading man/leading woman with a mature, complicated relationship which isn't sexual?
I loved the first season episode 'Solitudes' when Sam was willing to pretend to be Jack's estranged wife when she thinks he's dying and calls for "Sara". It was so, mature, so wonderfully in the team spirit of SG1 for her to want to be there for him in that way, why sully it by making it because she was in love with him? Why taint that selflessness with such juvenile self centeredness?

It was wonderful to see the older officer naturing and training the younger officer. Across the world, millions of women and men work together without it becoming sexual, we have work colleagues all the time who we can care for without having fall in love with them.

FF

[Linda06]

Um,i don't wanna sound dumb or anything but what does UST mean? (dummy here)

Yes Cautious explorer,the will they/won't they thing get's very tiresome eventually...I've watched countless shows with the will they/won't they scenario in it and it goes on that long that in the end if and when they do get together it came to the point i coudn't have cared less because of the length of time it took!

[Killdeer]

Hmmm...Kill that is interesting. I have missed so many episodes and seasons that I can't really formulate an argument on this one whether to agree or disagree, but I've never thought of actually looking at it from this point of view..can you give an example of where you think that things were affected or could have run differently if there wasn't an attraction? I"m not trying to put you on the spot, I"m trying to visualize this....*wink*

No, that's ok. Actually I have the perfect example because it came up earlier today in the Carter PRO and CON thread. When Sam abandoned her post in Heroes to run to Jack, and then go back with him through the gate, it caused a lot of controversy in fandom, because the appearance was that she did so because of her unprofessional feelings for Jack. If there were no feelings between them, or if she'd done so for Daniel or Teal'c, it's likely her actions would not have been questioned. Skipping over to S8 and Gemini - would it have been as easy for Sam to talk Jack into letting her work with the Replicarter, and would Jack have been so quick to reassure her when it all went bad if he had not had feelings for her? We'll never know. But because he did, and we know it, there's the appearance of favoritism, of special treatment.

The issue here I think is not so much whether it would change the characters' actions, but whether it changes the audience's perception of those actions. Once an attraction has been acknowledged between Shep & Teyla, then their interactions are tainted. Maybe for the better if you're a shipper, but not so much if you're not.

[Jeyla4ever]

Lol, I never had a problem with men taking their shirts off, I had a problem with women NOT taking their tops off Also, in some way, this topic has kinda turned into another Teyla/Sheppard Shippers thread. I certainyl take some of the blame for that. But I also love Sam/Jack & Daniel/Vala (I was almost crying when their memories were wiped for lack of a better word, in 'Unending'). A big dissapointment.

I guess I'll come check out the Teyla/Sheppard thread, but not today. Sometime tommorrow.

Sorry, I don't want to turn it into one either....Now this Vala and Daniel..I never liked Vala....and Daniel has changed a lot since the Daniel that first came to SG-1.

But just when I was able to sit and watch Vala and then not close my eyes while Vala and Daniel were together, Unending aired and I almost puked at the sight.

That scene where Daniel and Vala argue and then make up...DANGIT, I really hated Daniel in that piece and I've never hated Daniel before...I was actually glad when I saw Vala leave with a huge grin on her face as she passed by Mitchell. That just really ruined that ship for me if I was ever to go in that direction.

Again, it's like they have no clue how to do it right, meaning the writers...one minute it's great, the next you are disgusted..meaning me, of course.

Donna, Kill and I go way back! She's my anti-shipper friend! LOL

[SpyDude]

The thing I loved about the early Sam and Jack interaction was how special it was; do you know how unusual it is to get a leading man/leading woman with a mature, complicated relationship which isn't sexual?
I loved the first season episode 'Solitudes' when Sam was willing to pretend to be Jack's estranged wife when she thinks he's dying and calls for "Sara". It was so, mature, so wonderfully in the team spirit of SG1 for her to want to be there for him in that way, why sully it by making it because she was in love with him? Why taint that selflessness with such juvenile self centeredness?

It was wonderful to see the older officer naturing and training the younger officer. Across the world, millions of women and men work together without it becoming sexual, we have work colleagues all the time who we can care for without having fall in love with them.

FF

The thing is, the writers started to insinuate a Sam/Jack sexual relationship, but never went anywhere with it. As I said before, develope it, or leave it altogether.

[MrsB108]

Hey all. Just wanna add my two cents.

In real life since you can't help who you feel for, I don't think it would be far fetched for a subordinate and superior to fall for each other. Doesn't mean they'll get together or even talk about it, and yes it would definitely effect the team dynamic and perhaps not in a positive way, but it still doesn't mean the feelings arent there or its any less true.

I was/am a Buffy/Angel fan and Firefly as well. Joss Whedon wrote lots of ships that were and yet still weren't. Mal & Inara, Buffy and Angel, Buffy and Spike. You can keep the group dynamic and add a bit of ship but it only lasts so long before you have to insert an obstacle, something to make it real and keep it exciting.

I guess I like the angst part of the relationship the best anyways, the two people being in love but not being able to be together scenario. I'm probably alone in this situation, but I guess my point is I think ship can be done and I hope this season its done, and done right.

[Jeyla4ever]

No, that's ok. Actually I have the perfect example because it came up earlier today in the Carter PRO and CON thread. When Sam abandoned her post in Heroes to run to Jack, and then go back with him through the gate, it caused a lot of controversy in fandom, because the appearance was that she did so because of her unprofessional feelings for Jack. If there were no feelings between them, or if she'd done so for Daniel or Teal'c, it's likely her actions would not have been questioned. Skipping over to S8 and Gemini - would it have been as easy for Sam to talk Jack into letting her work with the Replicarter, and would Jack have been so quick to reassure her when it all went bad if he had not had feelings for her? We'll never know. But because he did, and we know it, there's the appearance of favoritism, of special treatment.

The issue here I think is not so much whether it would change the characters' actions, but whether it changes the audience's perception of those actions. Once an attraction has been acknowledged between Shep & Teyla, then their interactions are tainted. Maybe for the better if you're a shipper, but not so much if you're not.

Well, that's an argument that can really be argumentative in the way you perceive things...isn't it the same between parents who favored a child?

You think that because you let this one do this as opposed to the other one, that it's simply because you favored one better than the other...but the question is like you wrote, who will see it this way, the one that wasn't favored in his/her eyes.

I guess this point can be somewhat cleared for me because like I wrote earlier, John has already risked his life for all of his team mates at one point or another and he's done it for perfect strangers too. John is one effective leader because he's simple and very plain to read. He seems like he's closed off but he's not. He's really black and white.

Sam/Jack, yeah, that was a bit different in my opinion...he did favor Sam and yet I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that he always saw her as someone not just smart but wise and impartial as well.

Sam showed that she cares for all her team mates and no one should have questioned her loyalty to the team even if she was in a relationship with Jack.

[Killdeer]

The thing I loved about the early Sam and Jack interaction was how special it was; do you know how unusual it is to get a leading man/leading woman with a mature, complicated relationship which isn't sexual? I loved the first season episode 'Solitudes' when Sam was willing to pretend to be Jack's estranged wife when she thinks he's dying and calls for "Sara". It was so, mature, so wonderfully in the team spirit of SG1 for her to want to be there for him in that way, why sully it by making it because she was in love with him? Why taint that selflessness with such juvenile self centeredness?

It was wonderful to see the older officer naturing and training the younger officer. Across the world, millions of women and men work together without it becoming sexual, we have work colleagues all the time who we can care for without having fall in love with them.

FF

Exactly!! You put it much better than I could. For some of us, a strong platonic relationship between a man and a woman is a much more powerful thing than a romantic/sexual relationship, partially because of its rarity. That's how it is with John and Teyla for me. Honestly, it's not just the commander issue, although that is a BIG one. But it's just that I love their friendship right now, how it is. And tainting that with romance would spoil it for me.

I think of John and Teyla like Mal and Zoe on Firefly. Zoe was his right hand man, and had been to hell and back with him. But it didn't take anything away from it that she fell in love with and married another man. In fact, to me it made their relationship stronger.

[SpyDude]

Hey all. Just wanna add my two cents.

In real life since you can't help who you feel for, I don't think it would be far fetched for a subordinate and superior to fall for each other. Doesn't mean they'll get together or even talk about it, and yes it would definitely effect the team dynamic and perhaps not in a positive way, but it still doesn't mean the feelings arent there or its any less true.

I was/am a Buffy/Angel fan and Firefly as well. Joss Whedon wrote lots of ships that were and yet still weren't. Mal & Inara, Buffy and Angel, Buffy and Spike. You can keep the group dynamic and add a bit of ship but it only lasts so long before you have to insert an obstacle, something to make it real and keep it exciting.

I guess I like the angst part of the relationship the best anyways, the two people being in love but not being able to be together scenario. I'm probably alone in this situation, but I guess my point is I think ship can be done and I hope this season its done, and done right.

As a devoted Buffy/Angel/Firefly fan, I get where you're coming from, but sometimes it got so tireing. Basically every relationship got demolished in some overdramatic way. I definately wouldn't want any angst between Teyla & Sheppard or sth like that.

[SpyDude]

Exactly!! You put it much better than I could. For some of us, the platonic friendship/comradery is a much more powerful thing than a romantic/sexual relationship. That's how it is with John and Teyla for me. Honestly, it's not just the commander issue, although that is a BIG one. But it's just that I love their friendship right now, how it is. And I guess making it romantic would spoil it.

I think of John and Teyla like Mal and Zoe on Firefly. Zoe was his right hand man, and had been to hell and back with him. But it didn't take anything away from it that she fell in love with and married another man. In fact, to me it made their relationship stronger.

I have never shipped Mal & Zoe, they were great as just co-workers and friends. Why the hell did they have to kill Wash? Whedon sure knows how to slap a fan in the face.

Edit: woot, I have the status of Jaffa Fodder now.

[Jeyla4ever]

Exactly!! You put it much better than I could. For some of us, the platonic friendship/comradery is a much more powerful thing than a romantic/sexual relationship. That's how it is with John and Teyla for me. Honestly, it's not just the commander issue, although that is a BIG one. But it's just that I love their friendship right now, how it is. And I guess making it romantic would spoil it.

I think of John and Teyla like Mal and Zoe on Firefly. Zoe was his right hand man, and had been to hell and back with him. But it didn't take anything away from it that she fell in love with and married another man. In fact, to me it made their relationship stronger.

Frost...I actually think this is what has attracted me to Shep/Teyla more so than any other ship in my entire life where I"ve even started writing because of it...Their connection and bond was not simply physical, it was emotional. They trusted each other unconditionally from day one and it had nothing to do with it being a sexual thing. Clearly, John ruled that aside the minute he chosed her as part of his team. I think more than anything John realized that for him it would be best to develop something stronger and lifelong than make it a one night fling and never see her again. He saw in her something much more and if they ever do become more than friends, this friendship that they've formed is more special and will last longer.

See, Jack didn't choose Sam. He actually didn't want her. John had a choice. He could have developed something more with Teyla and he could have easily swayed her, whether she'd accepted or not is a different story, but the point is that John saw more in Teyla than a sexual attraction and she in him as well.

And that's what I love about the possibility of these two, they began with more than simply an attraction, and yet you know that it is there as well.