Why are the writers so afraid of romantic relationships between the characters?

[bluealien]

There's subtle and then there's utter confusion. Why put "shippy" moments that are open to interpretation between various pairings when the writers have no intention of going there -- when the whole purpose is to play games with the viewers? To me that's a signal that the writers are flailing around without a clue. Sort of like a politician waiting to see the polls before he decides where he stands on an issue -- the polls are going to change every week and so will his position.

If they're afraid of alienating certain fans, then why set up expectations to begin with? Give everyone a little taste of what you think they want and deliver the goods to no one. That's a recipe for alienating almost everyone. Eventually, most people realize they're being played with, tire of it, and move on.

I have to laugh at all the people screaming about romantic relationships turning Stargate into a soap opera. A single, subtle, well-written romantic relationship is not what makes a soap opera. All the guessing and hinting and never getting together or staying together is exactly what does make a soap opera IMO. That's what I don't want to see in Stargate.

A good writer should have a plan and know how the characters are going to grow and change. Waiting to see how the wind blows and taking the characters nowhere because it might upset one group or another is not good writing. Look at the classic movies, they weren't written with the idea that all character relationships should be ambiguous so no one leaves the theater disappointed.

Very well said...

[Linda06]

For Atlantis, John and Teyla, I am totally against the relationship driving the story. I want it in the background as it is now...but with the progression of the relationship playing out subtly...

Didn't they have two main characters in a relationship in Babylong 5?

Yes,Sneridan and Delenn if i rememer correctly got Married i think!

Anyone? Anyone?

I'd answer, but, you know I don't want to look braggy or anything.


EDIT: Could it mean unrequited or unresolved sexual tension? (That's all I could come up with.)

Ohhh,so that 's what it means,i always wondered..Thanks...Now what on Earth does OC mean? I feel like a right numpty!

There's subtle and then there's utter confusion. Why put "shippy" moments that are open to interpretation between various pairings when the writers have no intention of going there -- when the whole purpose is to play games with the viewers? To me that's a signal that the writers are flailing around without a clue. Sort of like a politician waiting to see the polls before he decides where he stands on an issue -- the polls are going to change every week and so will his position.

If they're afraid of alienating certain fans, then why set up expectations to begin with? Give everyone a little taste of what you think they want and deliver the goods to no one. That's a recipe for alienating almost everyone. Eventually, most people realize they're being played with, tire of it, and move on.

I have to laugh at all the people screaming about romantic relationships turning Stargate into a soap opera. A single, subtle, well-written romantic relationship is not what makes a soap opera. All the guessing and hinting and never getting together or staying together is exactly what does make a soap opera IMO. That's what I don't want to see in Stargate.

A good writer should have a plan and know how the characters are going to grow and change. Waiting to see how the wind blows and taking the characters nowhere because it might upset one group or another is not good writing. Look at the classic movies, they weren't written with the idea that all character relationships should be ambiguous so no one leaves the theater disappointed.

That is very well said,why give us shippy moments and then do nothing,does seem like it's more soap opery doing that than developing a relationship slowly!



As for the McKay/Katie relationship,it does absolutely nothing for me,i find her completely boring...If they were gonna give McKay a romance i think a better choice would have been Cadman,that would have been more fun.
She spunky and witty and can get under his skin (LITERALLY) hehe...Now that i could get used to!

[Red-Headed Earthling]

...I mean how could she keep that secret for the past 3 years,we've discussed this at great length at the JT thread and they've come to the same conclussion!

It doesn't have to hav elasted three years! It could have been just a few weeks, or just a few months. And there's no way everything can be shown on screen- there would be no surprises! Nothing interesting! No twists! Just a lot of blah blah blah exposition engst emo talk talk boorrrring. I think the "what if" is way more fun! Just pairing everyone up is too easy, and not very realistic. (I know, I know, I'm talking about realism in relation to a show about space aliens.... But I've had many, many jobs, and romantic relationships amongst my various coworkers have been few and far between, no matter what you see on t.v. sitcoms!)

[Linda06]

It doesn't have to hav elasted three years! It could have been just a few weeks, or just a few months. And there's no way everything can be shown on screen- there would be no surprises! Nothing interesting! No twists! Just a lot of blah blah blah exposition engst emo talk talk boorrrring. I think the "what if" is way more fun! Just pairing everyone up is too easy, and not very realistic. (I know, I know, I'm talking about realism in relation to a show about space aliens.... But I've had many, many jobs, and romantic relationships amongst my various coworkers have been few and far between, no matter what you see on t.v. sitcoms!)

Yeah,maybe i was over exaggerating a little bit...I tend to do that sometimes but how can she have absolutely no romantic interaction with anyone then all of a sudden someone just springs out of the woodwork from nowhere,i think that's even more unrealistic!

[MIZA]

yeah what about Rodney and Ronon , oh come on you know there is somthing going on just look at TAO OF RODNEY total mo' momnet

[Willow'sCat]

yeah what about Rodney and Ronon , oh come on you know there is somthing going on just look at TAO OF RODNEY total mo' momnet

Not to mention Sunday! But that is the thing; if you like a pairing you will see it, if you don't you will be asking WFT was that about...

Spoiler:

I never even knew Ronon and McKay were that tight... it seemed totally 'off' to me (not off bad, just weird or unusual for those moments to happen between them) on both occasions. The same with the book McKay wrote for Weir.

And I still maintain Sheppard forced himself on Teyla in season two so I refuse to see any 'romantic' thing there, that is just too weird for me.

But folks can see what they want, I just don't want to see it on the show myself. Not at this time... so I hope firstly Teyla's kid is not in anyway a Sheppard sprog... and that Teyla's pregnancy is left out of story lines as much as possible, I certainly do no want to see it made into a "who is the father" bit... please save us from lame soap opera plots.

Although I wouldn't put it past Skiffy to use it in their dam promos.

[borgprincess]

Not to mention Sunday! But that is the thing; if you like a pairing you will see it, if you don't you will be asking WFT was that about...

Spoiler:

I never even knew Ronon and McKay were that tight... it seemed totally 'off' to me (not off bad, just weird or unusual for those moments to happen between them) on both occasions. The same with the book McKay wrote for Weir.

And I still maintain Sheppard forced himself on Teyla in season two so I refuse to see any 'romantic' thing there, that is just too weird for me.

But folks can see what they want, I just don't want to see it on the show myself. Not at this time... so I hope firstly Teyla's kid is not in anyway a Sheppard sprog... and that Teyla's pregnancy is left out of story lines as much as possible, I certainly do no want to see it made into a "who is the father" bit... please save us from lame soap opera plots.

Although I wouldn't put it past Skiffy to use it in their dam promos.

Spoiler:

Well, in the promo, I saw Teyla gasping and writhing on the ground with something trying to tear its way out of her belly, Aliens style. Think it's a mutated baby? O.o

Anyway, as soon as I heard Rachel's pregnancy was being written into the show, I was hoping it wouldn't be venturing into soapie territory, and since it's some new guy we haven't seen before, I'm just worried that, as you say, the 'who's the father' question will become a long boring arc through the season...*yawns* This is one of the bravest moves that TPTB have made yet, in terms of being committed to fleshing out a character's relationship with another person. Oh, sure, Vala had a kid and all, but she wasn't seriously involved with that guy [Tomin?], it was more a survival thing. And Teyla's not in that desperate position anyway, it sounds more like she's been dating this guy on the sly and became pregnant, which is a totally different situation and they're going to have to address that in some way, unless they kill off the father and be done with the whole prospect of character development.

[DrAcula]

OP - IMO the difficulty isn't so much in writing romantic storylines but in maintaining it throughout the series in a favourable light. Also, such a storyline would need to be blended into the main plot without compromising or transcending other creative ideas.

Stargate vs. other sci-fi - Other sci-fi shows such as Babylon 5, Farscape and Firefly were able to accomodate romantic relationships more easily cos none of them really had a couple engaged in combat at the frontline so often, where they would be directly responsible for each other. Farscape is an exception to this but the characters here were basically fugitives and did not need approval from anyone or need to be role models to anyone. Even so, it compromised the objectivity of the characters on a few occasions. Stargate is more relatable to present day Earth and such a portrayal of military personnel would be, according to USAF, inaccurate and inappropriate.

Investing in one relationship - Stargate has more pairings than other shows. Establishing one relationship would prevent the fans from seeing and enjoying a different pairing, one which they prefer. TPTB are more interested in accomodating all fans. Also, it does well to send out the message that just because a particular pairing is well-received in a TV show doesn't mean an alternate one would be doomed if similar events occured in RL.

Platonic vs. romantic relationships - the frontline teams in Atlantis and SG-1 have formed a mutual bond amongst themselves. If any two of the members get romantically involved it would add another level of commitment to each other, something the rest of the team would not be able to be part of. This could distance said couple from the rest of the team. Also, platonic relationships don't need constant reassurance once it's been established. Romantic ones do and thus would require more screen time to assure fans they still exist, without necessarily adding something substantial to the plot.

Sheppard/Teyla & Jack/Sam - the most obvious reason these relationships haven't been established is because of the military regs. However, none of the characters are bull-headed military officers who would blindly follow the rules regardless of their implications. We've seen quite a few situations in both shows where the characters have disobeyed direct orders from superior officers. IMO, the reason they follow the regs is because they actually believe in their purpose and choose to, not because they have to. Therefore, even if there was a way around it, I don't think they would follow through on it. Plus, the whole 'forbidden love' angle seems more of a Whedon thing to me. I'd rather not see the characters portrayed as tortured souls.

And this may come as a surprise to some but I'm *not* against the idea of romance in the shows. I believe, if done well, it could add a lot to character development. But TPTB have clearly indicated that they don't intend to make it canon in these shows just yet. So personally, I'd rather have them not explore it too much as I wasn't fond of the way in which it was depicted in the later seasons of SG-1. I prefer them not establishing anything yet but just doing enough so that the characters don't come off as Vulcans, keeping the possibilties alive for when they *do* decide to go through with a particular pairing.


[Beat] Phew! That was kinda deep! *Ahem* hunting, wrestling, footy, motorsports... *breathes deeply* Yep, I think I'm okay now.

P.S.: I hated Pete too.

[Callista]

Ohhh,so that 's what it means,i always wondered..Thanks...Now what on Earth does OC mean? I feel like a right numpty!

This time I'm going to go with either "Off-Camera" or Orange County

[Linda06]

This time I'm going to go with either "Off-Camera" or Orange County

Oh i found out what it means..... *drum roll please* Original Character

[borgprincess]

OP - IMO the difficulty isn't so much in writing romantic storylines but in maintaining it throughout the series in a favourable light. Also, such a storyline would need to be blended into the main plot without compromising or transcending other creative ideas.

Stargate vs. other sci-fi - Other sci-fi shows such as Babylon 5, Farscape and Firefly were able to accomodate romantic relationships more easily cos none of them really had a couple engaged in combat at the frontline so often, where they would be directly responsible for each other. Farscape is an exception to this but the characters here were basically fugitives and did not need approval from anyone or need to be role models to anyone. Even so, it compromised the objectivity of the characters on a few occasions. Stargate is more relatable to present day Earth and such a portrayal of military personnel would be, according to USAF, inaccurate and inappropriate.

Investing in one relationship - Stargate has more pairings than other shows. Establishing one relationship would prevent the fans from seeing and enjoying a different pairing, one which they prefer. TPTB are more interested in accomodating all fans. Also, it does well to send out the message that just because a particular pairing is well-received in a TV show doesn't mean an alternate one would be doomed if similar events occured in RL.

Platonic vs. romantic relationships - the frontline teams in Atlantis and SG-1 have formed a mutual bond amongst themselves. If any two of the members get romantically involved it would add another level of commitment to each other, something the rest of the team would not be able to be part of. This could distance said couple from the rest of the team. Also, platonic relationships don't need constant reassurance once it's been established. Romantic ones do and thus would require more screen time to assure fans they still exist, without necessarily adding something substantial to the plot.

Sheppard/Teyla & Jack/Sam - the most obvious reason these relationships haven't been established is because of the military regs. However, none of the characters are bull-headed military officers who would blindly follow the rules regardless of their implications. We've seen quite a few situations in both shows where the characters have disobeyed direct orders from superior officers. IMO, the reason they follow the regs is because they actually believe in their purpose and choose to, not because they have to. Therefore, even if there was a way around it, I don't think they would follow through on it. Plus, the whole 'forbidden love' angle seems more of a Whedon thing to me. I'd rather not see the characters portrayed as tortured souls.

And this may come as a surprise to some but I'm *not* against the idea of romance in the shows. I believe, if done well, it could add a lot to character development. But TPTB have clearly indicated that they don't intend to make it canon in these shows just yet. So personally, I'd rather have them not explore it too much as I wasn't fond of the way in which it was depicted in the later seasons of SG-1. I prefer them not establishing anything yet but just doing enough so that the characters don't come off as Vulcans, keeping the possibilties alive for when they *do* decide to go through with a particular pairing.


[Beat] Phew! That was kinda deep! *Ahem* hunting, wrestling, footy, motorsports... *breathes deeply* Yep, I think I'm okay now.

P.S.: I hated Pete too.

I hated Pete as well!

Anyway, good points, great post. I intensely dislike the Whedon school of tortured souls. I have more fun shipping for characters that interact in a light, fluffy/angsty but not 'we can never be together though it rips my heart out not to be with you' way. A bit of banter that non-shippers/alternate-shippers can disregard as part of a friendly conversation but people like me can interpret in different ways. That kind of thing appeals to me. I wouldn't actually want a relationship established in the show, because they usually put one character through hell to make it more interesting- before, when they have the 'will they/won't they?' thing happening, people tune in to see how their friendship is maintained this week; once it's consummated, the writers like to torture the characters to keep that interest. [for instance, FARSCAPE. Or X-files. Who found Mulder and Scully as interesting once they hooked up? Exactly. The writers then brought in Doggett and Reyes to continue the UST trend, though with far less success.]

Why have little shippy moments at all? Because a lot of people like to see some human relationships, an actual bond between the characters, rather than machines heading off to save the world every day. And some like to see more between those characters. I don't blame TPTB for playing it safe and including a bit of something for everyone. At least they're being fair about it. In a show like Farscape, it's pretty obvious which two people were destined to be together from the start [which made it more tortuous for them because their love *had* to be tried and tested and bashed the whole way through the series, pretty much]; on SG-1/SGA, there are tons of pairings and one group will scream in absolute rage if another is chosen over theirs. I wonder how the Teyla/Ronon aka Spanky, I believe, are going to react to this season's changes?

[PrettySCiFiGirl]

Spoiler:

Well maybe not 3 years but it was inplied that she's been hiding a love interest but i think it was an old interview so it might have changed by then but as for the pregnancy,i will accept anything except a normal pregnancy,i don't want to see her getting pregnant to another guy except Shep
But seriously,i don't want Teyla to get all domesticated...Ok sorry,a bit of topic there...

Na Pegasus_SGA,i wouldn't want them to be all lovey dovey and sucking face every 2 minutes either but if they're gonna dangle carrots in front of us at least give us something...right?

p.s. I hate soaps

I totally agree. I would so hate it if it all turned in a soap opera, but i mean come on a little *REAL* relationship between say, Jack and Sam wouldn't hurt that bad would it??

Spoiler:

we've seen bits and pieces in Continuum

but never the whole relationship thing. This is what i'd like to see in the next SG1 or Atlantis movie (More so SG1) :-]
...................................................................
"Looks Like We've Got An /, /JANET Shipper on our Hands"

[Skadi]

I think the problem is (as many have said) that a ship that is great for one is not so great for another...that, and the writers can't write it

That said, I do understand those that want to see Sam/Jack together, even though I am not one of them, since the writers have been dangling it in front of them for so long (making me stop watching lots of times).

I still desperately hope they will somehow resurrect Martouf/Lantash and give us the one and only true pairing (IMHO): Sam/Martouf/Lantash.

-Skadi

[sarcasmo]

Why are the writers so afraid of romantic relationships between the characters?

Because they're not very good at writing them.

[Rac80]

because they know that no matter who they pair there will always be some fans whinging about it! they get tired of the nasty emails I bet!