Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[majorsal]

I fear it's too late to create conflict among the all new Brady Bunch, though. At best we'll see Sam and Teal'c roll eyes at poor Vala who will be the object of many pithy putdowns from the Cam&Dan one-liners tag-team.

you've just described the (new) team in a nutshell.









sally

[majorsal]

Exactly. Another example of Daniel not acting like Daniel, IMHO. Remember when he stood up for her when Makepeace was appointed commander? Sure he may understand the military better now than he did then, but he used to be the kind of guy who would stand up for a friend or at least tell Sam she got a raw deal. Sam could have then explained why it was ok with her or why she had to accept orders. The least the writers could have done was give us *something* to allow us to accept, however grudgingly, that Sam wasn't in charge. As it stands, it simply makes *no sense.*

but see, the writers have no probs with it, so neither do the characters.

i was talking whining to my mom about the lack of follow through in stories since season 7. with janet, it was out of sight, out of mind. WITH JANET??? and what about jacob?...

so the writers took sam's command of sg1 half-a$$ed, so *now* the characters do (because the writers don't want to deal with something that they never really gave a crap about themselves in the first place). and when they finally accept that the majority of fans have probs, we get scenes like in 'affinity' where pete thanks sam for sticking with him, even thought he stalked her. and this was supposed to make up for *sam accepting the abuse in the first place*? i have a feeling that the 'leadership issue' problem will be handled with mitchell coming out the clear winner. so, like in 'affinity', it's not really 'handled' but whitewashed until it's literally transparent. (can't see it, it ain't there)

sky, i think i'm in competition with you for ms negativity now.






sally

[astrogeologist]

Spoiler for S9 and Uninvited

Spoiler:

One of the reason I adored SG-1 so much in the beginning was because it had two scientists on the team. Sam and Daniel made it cool to be intelligent and geeky. It wasn't until the Other Guys that we ever got a hint that SG-1 was considered the cool guys at the SGC or that people actually looked up to them. They weren't arrogant or condescending( ok maybe Jack was, but the others weren't ). Sam and Daniel didn't tease anyone or speak badly about them, but that seems to have changed. Jack may have occassionally made a joke about Sam and Daniel being geeks and he may have occassionally rolled his eyes, but he was always the first person to stand up for them when they were being treated badly or to inform others how intelligent they were. When I watched SG-1, they always felt like a family. A dysfunctional family, but a family none-the-less.

I agree, Kat!

Spoiler:

Sam's role has been drastically altered and the tenor of the show has changed. Carter used to be a brilliant scientist - and that was *cool*. She was also a competent officer and soldier - and she handled it capably.

Now that she's been written out of command, and Mitchell is the team's New Leader, Carter is mostly reduced to science geek - with the emphasis on *geek* (boring geek, make-fun-of-geek, inept geek, etc.), instead of the *cool* science and cool intelligence. Add in that she often isn't the one to even do the science anymore (she's more likely to be the one to say 'yeah, that might work', regarding someone else's science-geek idea), or if she does have an idea, it doesn't work...

OK, back on topic - I agree, Kat. The show no longer displays Carter as a cool hero who loves the science that she is gifted in. No, now she is one of the boring, usually inept geeks who gets to a) either just watch the cool, macho non-science-geek heros do all the heroic stuff, and/or b) gets to be the inept damsel-in-distress-geek that the cool non-science-geek hero gets to save while also saving everyone else.

[majorsal]

it was definitely implied.

Spoiler:

landry says something about sam having an *ahem* intimate relationship. and she gets all uncomfortable

so yeah, it was definitely implied the sam and adult orlin shagged.

which was in SUCH poor taste. shame on them for leaving it in

sometime after 'ascension' aired, amanda was asked at a con about whether sam and orlin 'did it'. amanda said no.

i wonder if amanda would answer that differently now...






sally

[majorsal]

as for the fourth hourseman: is there anyone who actually likes that scene?!? please come forward and let us see something good from that scene...

LOL, i don't think so!





sally

[Osiris-RA]

Spoiler:

Add in that she often isn't the one to even do the science anymore (she's more likely to be the one to say 'yeah, that might work', regarding someone else's science-geek idea), or if she does have an idea, it doesn't work...

Spoiler:

I thought I was the only one noticing!! How lame is it that in their quest to make Cam shine, they can't even give Carter her usual role of being the smart one - they actually have to go write in some filler scientific type character - who isn't even as interesting as Beckett or (dare I say it?) Mckay - to spew technobabble. Carter's the only who can do the technobabble, dammit!!

That said, Sam seemed a tweed more in character last Friday. She was making faces again. Yay!

[AGateFan]

LOL, i don't think so!





sally

I dont think I liked any scene that involved both Lam and Landry. Those two characters had zero chemistry and the contrived soap opra plot didnt help.

Also note that the father-daughter relationship was yet another aspect striped from Carter and given to other characters in S9 (I think it was a theme for the season "SG-1 where if its Carters its going to someone else".) And just like the other stripped aspects the people trying to re-play them show poorly in comparison to the original. Carter and Jacob had great chemistry.... and it wasn't at all a case of nepotism and it didnt seem very soap opra like. Just a good little, understated, drama that fit in perfectly with the rest of the show.

Paraphased spoiler from 4H2 ... I think it was 4h2, dont really care enough to look it up.

Spoiler:

(as opposed to the foisted upon us over dramatic soap that was Lam\landry.... oh daddy your dieing, lay their and listen to me whine about why I'm a brat... oh, I mean Sir)

EDIT: You know, they said they didnt know what to do with Carter. Well I guess you wouldnt if you take every aspect of the character and give it to others. Maybe they could have used some of those storylines for the character they originated with.

[Skydiver]

sky, i think i'm in competition with you for ms negativity now.


sally

hey!!

that's my title and i've been working long and hard for it

[majorsal]

I totally agree. I totally miss the bantering and the differences of opinions. The thing I enjoyed so much about Jack is that he spoke his mind even if it was politically incorrect. Sometimes he said it in a joking manner, but there was always a glimpse of seriousness to his words. Whether fear, concern or dislike, he always used humor as a means to hide his deeper emotions which I can somewhat see in Vala now. Whereas Cameron just seems to toss out one-liners just for the hell of it. There is no rhyme or reason to it and it's really becoming quite tiresome.

In Pegasus Project he came across as a

Spoiler:

bully to me. I understand Mckay is a jerk at times and he tends to goad Carter on, but McKay didn't know Mitchell and Cameron intentionally tried to intimidate McKay on several occassions. I also didn't enjoy seeing Sam condone this type of behavior. Perhaps it's the mother in me, but it was like watching the cool kids at school picking on the newbie or geek. It just struck a nerve with me.

I've also become quite tired with the eye rolling over the past two season. It seems as if Sam and Teal'c do this a lot in S9 & S10 and I hate the fact that Sam seems to be complying to everything that goes on around her or she's quietly trying to ignore it.

I simply can not understand why Sam, Daniel or Teal'c have never mentioned the leadership issue? What has changed since S8 that Daniel and Teal'c would agree to be lead by someone other than Sam? I mean in my mind there had to have been some kind of discussion between these three characters before they agreed to join SG-1 again. So why weren't we allowed to see it? Just hearing their concerns and reasons for coming back would have helped me to deal with the issue of Sam not leading in S9.

Spoiler for S9 and Uninvited

Spoiler:

Oh sure we may finally get to hear Mitchell and Landry discuss the leadership issue in Uninvited, but I seriously doubt we'll be allowed to see Sam's point of view. If the writers finally state that Mitchell is unequivocally the leader of SG-1, then I hope they will also state that Sam is still in charge of R&D which is why she willingly accepted a position on SG-1 instead of taking command of her own SG team and that the Pentagon felt that during the Ori crisis Sam's place was best served as a member of SG-1 rather than behind a desk at Area 51. To me this would also explain why so many episodes have shown other scientists doing the scientific work instead of Sam throughout S9 and S10. Seeing as Sam is now in charge of the research and develop she wouldn't have the time to deal with all the scientific testing therefore forcing her to delegate the work onto others.

Personally I'm just tired of the lack of explanations and the fact that we are just suppose to assume that no one on the team has any issues with their situation and Cameron is a cool new CO whom everyone adores even if they are rolling their eyes at him and making faces behind his back. Granted it was slightly amusing in the beginning, but it's really beginning to wear on me now and like TH/Skydiver have said I miss the lack of conflict. I miss seeing Daniel jump up in down in frustration because he can't get Jack to understand his POV. I want to see Sam get a backbone again and actually let someone know she's pissed off like she did in Chain Reaction or Foothold. I want to see Teal'c do something other than bow his head and succumb to the outcome like he did in Flesh and Blood. Where is that spark that these three characters used to have? While I thought that Daniel's sermon in Pegasus Project was a bit over the top, at least Daniel showed a bit of passion again for something he believed in. I was really beginning to think they had all been replaced by pod people or we are watching an alternate reality.

The thing that is so upsetting for me regarding SG-1 pre and post S9, is before S9 I just wanted to see more moments with the team relaxing with one another. I wanted to see more of the friendly bantering and closeness that they shared in the earlier seasons. Then in S9 we suddenly got this new guy on the team. Someone whom only Sam really knew and suddenly Mitchell managed to not only get Sam, Daniel and Teal'c back onto SG-1, but we're suppose to believe that they all really like him and they make it a point by showing them all hanging out together, playing basketball and watching movies. Cameron is like the class clown and the others get so wrapped up into his shenanigans that they begin to behave completely out of character. I mean other than that little scene in The Scourge where Daniel and Cameron are disagreeing and Cameron basically says "I'm right...end of story" have we ever really seen any of the characters argue or disagree about anything? Oh sure Sam looked flustered when Cameron called her Mary Poppins, but she just let him get away with it. In most cases, when S/D/ or T get annoyed with Cameron the biggest reaction we seem to get from them is rolling of the eyes or simply walking away like they did Stronghold and Camelot. I really hated that in S9 and now it seems that Sam has just become a Cameron follower by joining in his little granny remarks and making fun of McKay behind his back with facial expressions. Or am I just seeing things differently than how they actually occurred?

One of the reason I adored SG-1 so much in the beginning was because it had two scientists on the team. Sam and Daniel made it cool to be intelligent and geeky. It wasn't until the Other Guys that we ever got a hint that SG-1 was considered the cool guys at the SGC or that people actually looked up to them. They weren't arrogant or condescending( ok maybe Jack was, but the others weren't ). Sam and Daniel didn't tease anyone or speak badly about them, but that seems to have changed. Jack may have occassionally made a joke about Sam and Daniel being geeks and he may have occassionally rolled his eyes, but he was always the first person to stand up for them when they were being treated badly or to inform others how intelligent they were. When I watched SG-1, they always felt like a family. A dysfunctional family, but a family none-the-less. They had their squabbles and disagreements, but it was obvious they cared deeply for one another. Noone had to tell us they cared, because we were allowed to see it. Jack always reminded me of an older brother who would antagonize/torment his younger siblings by teasing and calling them names, but just let an outsider make those same teasing remarks and he'd be right up in their face. I liked that.

I suppose this is why I have such an issue with Cameron because there has been so little background story to really explain Mitchell's acceptance by the other members of SG-1. It was obvious at the beginning of Avalon that Daniel really didn't know Mitchell well nor did Teal'c and one can only assume there was more to Sam and Mitchell's relationship than two people who met in S7 after Cameron's injury. So why haven't the writers given us any of this background information? I understand that in the beginning of S9 the writers were trying to define the Ori as the new threat to Earth, but the Gou'ald weren't a major part of ever single episode so why couldn't they have added a few stand alone episodes into season nine to explain why Sam would be willing to come back to the SGC simply because Cameron asked her to or why she is so willing to just overlook his childish antics.

...Arg too long, continued.

can't green you

BRAVO! BRAAAAVOOO!!

we've went from the ocean depth of seasons 1-8 to a little kids' wading pool!








sally

[stargate barbie]

I knew there was a reason I... You were one of those Pepsi drinkers too, weren't you?

Carter drinks Coke and prefers Mac to MicroSloth.

BAH! have you ever seen carter use a mac? no! you know why? because carter is really really smart! thats why.

(if she did ever use a mac, then i apologise but my brain automatically blocks out traumatic circumstances so the memory has clearly been repressed)

[Skydiver]

OK, I need some recommendations from the computer-oriented amongst us...

I have update my PDF collection from the thread
'Welcome To My World'

Here's the problem: The pdf file is 24.6MB (the original Word document is more than twice that size), and my Personal Web Space is only 25MB... so I am rapidly reaching the limit.

I tried creating a ZIP file of the PDF file, but the resulting ZIP file was only a few hundred bytes smaller than the PDF file.

Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions or recommendations?

I don't want to split the file into two before posting because it has a table of contents (custom-created, but it still updates and finds page numbers (when I tell it to), so I don't have to hunt and scroll).

will live journal let you upload something that's not pics?

i thought folks had up to a gig or so of web space to use for pictures

[the dancer of spaz]

...continued

Just once I would just like to see a scene where Cameron screws up or does something stupid and Sam actually gets angry and blows up at him.

Spoiler:

Sam walks into locker room where Cameron is dressing and slams the door behind her.

Sam: What the hell was that all about?

Cameron continues to pull his T-shirt over his head.

Cameron: What was what all about?

Sam: You know damn well what I'm talking about. We had our orders out there and once again you deliberately chose to ignore them.

Cameron(slightly annoyed): If I remember correctly, I was the one in charge of this mission. A decision needed to be made. I went with my instincts and made the call.

Sam(flustered): A call that deliberately went against our orders and your instincts could have cost someone their life.

Cameron: ...but they didn't. Everyone came home... safe and sound.

Sam: Cam, we were just very very lucky.

Cameron: Isn't that SG-1's motto? *big grin*

Sam: Don't. *shaking head* Please. It's not going to work this time.

Cameron: What's not going to work?

Sam: The smile. The fast talk.

Sam: Cam, you know I've been watching your back since the Academy. Whether it was helping you pass your physics exams or taking the blame for that little mishap in the chemistry lab, I was always there for you. And you wanna know why? Because I could see the potential in you even when you couldn't. I always knew you had the ability to someday be an excellent AF Officer and pilot. You've always had this amazing ability to sweet talk your way out of just about any situation or to talk someone into doing something for you. Hell, who else would have been able to talk me into leaving my position at Area 51 to come back here? But we're not kids anymore and this isn't some game we're playing where you can just hit the reset button if things don't work out the way you imagined.

Cameron: I know that.

Sam: Do you? Then why don't you include us into your plans? These is our lifes that you are playing with Cam...yours, mine, Teal'c and Daniel's. I can't sit idly by and allow you to continue to put us unnecessarily at risk. Not anymore. I can't and I won't. I know you have issues. We we all do, but what happened out there today never should have happened. You should never have made that call and you know it!

Cameron: Sam...I....

Sam: ...don't *holds up her hand* No more excuses, please. You're a good leader. Believe me, I wouldn't be here now if I didn't truly believe you were capable of leading SG-1, but SG-1 is more than just a job to me. Teal'c and Daniel are my family. We've survived this long together because we trust each other explicitly. They accepted you as their new CO and gave you their trust because of me...because they trusted me and my belief in you. Please don't make me regret ever making that call.

An man enters the locker room nearly walking into Sam.

SG Member: I'm terribly sorry Colonel, I thought...*looks back at the door*

Sam: It's alright *still looking at Mitchell* I was just leaving.

Sam turns to leave the room.

Mitchell: Sam?

Sam glances over her shoulder towards Mitchell.

Mitchell(looks at Sam with puppy dog eyes): You up for some Jell-o in the cafeteria later...my treat?

Sam: Blue??

Mitchel( big grin ) Of course!

Sam: Give me 10, ok?

Mitchell: Will do....and Sam?

Sam: Hmmm?

Mitchell mouths 'Thank you'.

Sam nods, smiles and exits the room.

Uh huh. Hmmm... OK, tell the class (again) why you don't write fanfiction, please? I think I missed the answer the first fifty times you were asked.

And two posts! Way to be awesomely verbose. I love this scenario, and I love that you posed those questions.

Unfortunately, you kinda answered a lot of what you brought up, depressingly enough.

Spoiler:

When it comes to the characters questioning why Cameron is leading, I just shake my head, because it's so clear that TPTB knew this was going to be a big issue before it even was one. They can pretend like they didn't see this coming all they want. They can act like they just don't understand (*whimper*) why certain factions of the fandom - who like to unintelligibly whinge, no less - refuse to like their product.

However, the very fact that they didn't have the presence of mind to look back at their own canon and create a scenario where Daniel and Teal'c questioned this choice means that they didn't want to address it. Because addressing it would mean they'd be admitting that it was an issue; ignoring it makes it a non-issue (in their minds), and they can pretend like this is how it was always meant to be.

They can essentially reset to zero by not having Sam talk to Cameron about his restless behavior - especially when they plan to make him more "in control" in future episodes. They can let Cameron be inconsistent for the sake of the plot, a joke or a jolly, because they've decided that it's perfectly OK to make him suddenly and illogically heroic in the very next breath.

They can gloss over Cameron's lack of development by making the rest of SG-1, SGC, nay the U.S. enamored by his heroics. They can create team nights, direct the actors to smile a certain way, embrace, etc., because then it'll create the false illusion that the current direction of the series somehow falls into place and is cohesive.

They can absolutely, positively ignore Sam's position in S8 - and that's INCLUDING her lame-o, one-shot position at Area 51 - because she's supposedly serving her purpose just fine as the fourth-string, second-rate character, whom they can utilize whenever they're in need, because they know that AT will give 110% and deliver what they're looking for when they need it.

The rolling of the eyes and the scoffing can be interpreted in a way akin to how people try to treat Bush - "Oh, he's just being him. Ignore what he says; watch what he does!" It's not really a compliment, it's not really condemnation - it's subtle recognition of the stupidity of his actions, for those who want to see it, and it's confirmation of how much "in" he has with the team, for those who want to see that. In essence, it's the easy way out for writers who have grown quite accustomed to ambiguity over the past four years.

The conflict you guys mentioned earlier takes work. It takes a bit of risk - there are many of us, myself included, who probably would've taken the canon conflict and twisted it into evidence of TPTB's weaknesses. They know how visceral many of us can be. There was a time when I would've nodded with the rest who said that TPTB don't really care what we think. But Wright's mini-whinefest in his interview with Darren and David, and Mallozi's audacity to include GW members in his little ratings/mathematics problem says otherwise to me. They care. For some reason, they care.

Is it because we, as a fanbase, demonstrate our appreciation on a regular basis even when the Nielsens don't reflect it, or when it seems that the critics don't care about their hard work? Maybe. Whatever the case, I do believe that GW is being monitored by people in charge. JM said he likes to catch the reception of the episodes on Friday nights - what's to say that's stopped?

Will it change what they've done to the series this season? I doubt it. It'd be nice if they could wave some crazy Hollywood wand and undo all of the (Sk)iffy stuff that's already in the can. But I think that requires a desire to admit that they messed up somewhere in February of 2005 - and that's not gonna happen. And I don't know if I wholly blame them anymore... Everyone likes a steady paycheck after all.


ETA: Remember Daniel's rather uncharacteristic behavior in Ripple Effect? Honestly, the writing is SO on the wall when Daniel, of all people, is rolling his eyes during a complicated scientific explanation. I dunno if this is a subtle way of showing that the Daniel character is safe from a good axing come the 2007-2008 season or what, but I think it kinda falls in line with what you're saying... Explanations and scientifically sound theories beyond some Scapey "slingshot" maneuver are no longer so welcome, unless Brad Wright is willing to write some eps to include them. And since he has his hands full being the showrunner for the other series and all, and the SG-1 writers are having so much fun with the new characters and arcs they have... Well, it doesn't take a theoretical astrophysicist to do the math for this equation.

[Mandysg1]

I dont think I liked any scene that involved both Lam and Landry. Those two characters had zero chemistry and the contrived soap opra plot didnt help.
Also note that the father-daughter relationship was yet another aspect striped from Carter and given to other characters in S9 (I think it was a theme for the season "SG-1 where if its Carters its going to someone else".) And just like the other stripped aspects the people trying to re-play them show poorly in comparison to the original. Carter and Jacob had great chemistry.... and it wasn't at all a case of nepotism and it didnt seem very soap opra like. Just a good little, understated, drama that fit in perfectly with the rest of the show.

Paraphased spoiler from 4H2 ... I think it was 4h2, dont really care enough to look it up.

Spoiler:

(as opposed to the foisted upon us over dramatic soap that was Lam\landry.... oh daddy your dieing, lay their and listen to me whine about why I'm a brat... oh, I mean Sir)

EDIT: You know, they said they didnt know what to do with Carter. Well I guess you wouldnt if you take every aspect of the character and give it to others. Maybe they could have used some of those storylines for the character they originated with.

Hey don't dis soap opera's at least they are well written and thought out and character driven So what if they have a character(s) come back to life after having an autopsy and being buried....at least its more believable than what they have done to Sam's character since S9
okay end rant

[majorsal]

hey!!

that's my title and i've been working long and hard for it

well, can i be ms negativity 2 (mn2)?




sally

[Mandysg1]

well, can i be ms negativity 2 (mn2)?




sally

Why that just sounds like a sequel and we all know sequels are never as good as the originals