Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[gater62]

Okay, I know I'm a little behind, but The Enemy Within is on Scify right now and I'm finally getting to watch what I want to watch.

Non ship ramblings

Spoiler:

Anyway, the teen girl comes in at the beginning and goes, "oh is that Kawalsky? Oh this is so first season! Look how brown the Colonel's hair is!" I was impressed she remembered Kawalsky's name. Anyway she had a question for all you science geeks out there. When the Jaffa were shooting through the gate (or it could have been Jaffa coming through the gate), she wanted to know if there was blood on the other side of the iris. I said I didn't think so-lol. We had this discussion of how the iris is so close to the event horizon and she ended up answering her own question thinking that they disintegrated or that new kawooshes cleaned up the iris! What do you think?

And something that always bugged me--why did Daniel and Sam even care that Kawalsky was in the "embarkation room"? He's the leader of SG-2; why can't he just go in there to look?

[gater62]

Sorry for the double post, but another late posting on The Enemy Within...

Spoiler:

When they're about to start the surgery, Kawalsky demands General Hammond to "give the order" cuz he wants to wake up as himself or not at all. Can Hammond order the doctor to kill Kawalsky? The ethical question behind that comment cuz Hammond agrees to give the order just boogles my mind. I understand he has been taken over by an alien entity, but it makes me cringe!

[VSS]

Okay, I know I'm a little behind, but The Enemy Within is on Scify right now and I'm finally getting to watch what I want to watch.

Non ship ramblings

Spoiler:

Anyway, the teen girl comes in at the beginning and goes, "oh is that Kawalsky? Oh this is so first season! Look how brown the Colonel's hair is!" I was impressed she remembered Kawalsky's name. Anyway she had a question for all you science geeks out there. When the Jaffa were shooting through the gate (or it could have been Jaffa coming through the gate), she wanted to know if there was blood on the other side of the iris. I said I didn't think so-lol. We had this discussion of how the iris is so close to the event horizon and she ended up answering her own question thinking that they disintegrated or that new kawooshes cleaned up the iris! What do you think?

And something that always bugged me--why did Daniel and Sam even care that Kawalsky was in the "embarkation room"? He's the leader of SG-2; why can't he just go in there to look?

Ha your daughter and I think alike- because at some point I wondered that, too, having not seen the series from the start but rather in bits and pieces.

Spoiler:

But, no, there's no blood. Nothing materializes on the other side. Here's what Sam says:

CARTER: Pure titanium. Less than three micrometers from the event horizon. It won't even allow matter to fully reintegrate.

And that's true. A red blood cell is about 6 or 7 microns across, so there's not even blood. The only thing that might be there is some metal or clothing molecules, I think.

But, there is a noise, and that makes no sense. I guess that's theatrical license! Now I'm going to stay up at night wondering about that, Amy!

As to the second question, I believe they knew something was wrong with Kawalsky at that point. He was supposed to be in bed. At least it made sense to me that they would be alarmed. Also- I did notice that finally in Fire & Water they started calling it the Stargate Room. Next stop- Gate room!

[Toomi]

Fire And Water


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Fave Scene: When Sam comes out of her hypnosis and Jack is there to comfort her.

Fave Quote:
Hammond: You know that's my car don't you? (after Jack smashes the window)
Jack: You should get that window fixed.

Sam: (reading from Daniel's journal from Abydos) Colonel O'Neill thinks I'm a geek. I have no idea how to get us back. I'll never get paid.

The episode starts with General Hammond and Walter discussing SG-4's next mission when they are interrupted by an unscheduled offworld activation. It's SG-1 arriving early so Hammond orders a medical team. SG-1, minus Daniel, come through the gate, wet. Jack and Teal'c seem to be holding Sam up and they all sink to the ramp. Jack sinks his head into his hands and we know something bad has happened. Janet dashes in and announces they're all in shock. Jack manages to state that Daniel is dead.

Does this death account for a time when Daniel has 'died' even though is isn't really? So far is the count at 1 real death (movie) and 1 supposed death?

Janet is concerned about contamination and has SG-1's wet clothing analyzed. Sam is sitting on a bed, very upset and complaining about shaking. She doesn't say from cold or just emotional response, but Janet orders another blanket.

Teal'c freaks out when they try to take his blood pressure, saying he doesn't want it done. Jack's just sitting on the bed, not pacing around or trying to get out of there. Janet flashes a pen light in his eyes and he reacts, showing photosensitivity.

SG-1 recount their mission to Hammond and a video camera, one by one, telling how they started surveying a the planet when Daniel called for help and then was gone. Jack says he was engulfed in fire. They ran for a lake and jumped in to avoid the fire.

Jack is pretty upset, and as usual, closes himself off, cutting Hammond short when he offers assistance.

Janet is concerned about their mental well being and Hammond states that working together in the capacity that they creates a strong bond and wants to get them ack on the mission rotation as soon as possible. Janet manages to persuade him to put SG-1 on stand down for a few days.

I can see Hammonds point. I am one that when dealing with grief, pour myself into work, anything to keep me busy. However, I'm not putting my life or other people's lives at risk at work so I kind of see Janet's point too....

We see a funeral for Daniel, where Jack states that Daniel was SG-1's voice, conscience, that he was courageous. He calls Daniel his friend.

Why does Jack give the flag to Teal'c?

Jack and Sam put a wreath into the event horizon and the funeral/wake is over. It's a touching scene that made tears well up the first time I saw it.

Cut to Daniel coughing, spluttering and soaking wet.

We see Jack's house for the wake, I believe this is the first time. The Apollo moon vehicle on the shelf, I have the same one!!! lol. Well, I did until my desk fell and smashed half of it....

Sam shows up looking gorgeous and carrying wine. She takes Jack up on his offer for a drink, asking for beer. Teal'c refrains. As Jack is pouring a beer he has a flashback, triggered by either the bubbles, or the pouring of the beer. He leaves.

Jack takes some of his frustration out by playing a bit of street hockey, then turns to Hammonds car, smashing the window in. Jack admits he's thinking of retiring but Hammond asks him to help clear out Daniel's appartment to remove any sensitive items. Hammond points out that Jack may be the closest thing Daniel has to a family.

Daniel tries to talk to the alien, and finds out that this alien is looking for Amarocha. (sp?) The alien questions Daniel trying to find out about his mate. His mate came from Babylon and is quesitoning Daniel when Daniel gets frustrated and tells him he doesn't know everything about Babylon as it happened thousands of years before he was born. Daniel explodes and yells at the alien that his wife was taken by the Goa'uld too. Daniel and the alien have at it until they both come to understand each other, that the goa'uld are no longer in control of Earth and that Amarocha may have triggered the uprising against Ra. Daniel asks the alien to look into his mind to find the knowledge that he needs even though it is dangerous. Daniel states he would rather die trying than to be stuck there and never see his wife or friends again. Daniel has his mind probed (?) and remembers that Amarocha was killed. The alien releases him as he's of no further use.

At Daniel's appartment, SG-1 is helping cleaning it up, and Sam comes across Daniel's expedition journals and browses through them. Jack asks Sam to stop reading it after she recites some of what he has written. While Sam is looking into the fish tank she has a flashback and Jack is there immediatly as she snaps out of it. All of them realise that they're having the same flashbacks and they feel that something is wrong. Jack says that it doesn't feel right, and he expects Daniel to walk through the door at any moment. He looks like he's about to explain what he means when he storms out, saying forget the packing and going back to the base.

Janet finds that they all have low seritonum levels, which can cause moodiness and depression. At another unscheduled activation, SG-1 dash into the gate room where they all saw Daniel, but it's a member of SG-4.

When Jack goes to grab his head in the gateroom, Sam is by his side in an instant and helps him to the infirmary.

Dr. Mackenzie makes an appearence using the sound of the sea to bring back memories. Jack doesn't believe it will do anything, but it triggers a response from Teal'c. At this point they all realise there is a time discrepancy. SG-1 claiming that they only spend a half hour, mission logs claiming 4 hours on mission.

Jack is pretty obstinate about hypnosis and Sam states she has some experience with it and volunteers. Jack waves his permission so Dr. Mackenzie goes ahead. Jack stays in the room with her, looking uncomfortable and figity. He has already stated he doesn't believe it works. Sam begins to tell what happened (as we see it).

Carter comes out of it, scared and shouting after she realises the truth. The alien captured them, and released them keeping Daniel. She jumps up and immediatly Jack is there, holding onto her and yelling her name. The moment she states that they left Daniel behind, Jack wraps his arms around her, hugging her and assuring her that they're going back.

Jack, Sam and Teal'c all head back to the planet just in time for Daniel's release. Even after what the alien has put Daniel and them all through, Daniel offers friendship. The alien states perhaps in time, and his parting words are hope that Daniel finds Sha're's fate.

As a light end to the episode, Jack suggests they all hear the story over sushi.

Sam and Jack implications: The hug says so many things, and leaves me with questions all in one go. Jack is there for Sam's hypnosis for several reasons I think. Mostly to be there as the team leader to support his team mate as he would for Teal'c or Daniel too. I think he also wants to hear what Sam says, if it works. When she remembers what happened, her words trigger his memory and he too remembers. She's very clearly upset from reliving the memory and then realising that Daniel is alive but they've left him behind. Jack hugs her to comfort her and to comfort himself. He's feeling the same guilt/shock/horror that Sam is feeling, but doesn't show it. He needs that comfort too, while I don't think he'd admit it. If it had been Daniel reacting that way would Jack have hugged him? Or Teal'c? I don't think so.... HIs instinct is to hug her showing that he cares. Not as in loving care, not yet, but he sees a situation and reacts immediatly. I think it's his subconscious who does have an 'interest' in her perhaps, reacting fast. If Jack was in an observation room and had to run from one room to another would he have reacted the same way? I don't think he would have hugged her, just perhaps laid a comforting hand on her shoulder or something similar.

For the team as a whole, as General Hammond states early on, the work that SG-1 does makes them close. I think this is when we start to see the deep bonds of friendship starting to emerge.

On another note, on the planet the three moons on the horizon are gorgeous!!!!

[Toomi]

Sorry for the double post, but another late posting on The Enemy Within...

Spoiler:

When they're about to start the surgery, Kawalsky demands General Hammond to "give the order" cuz he wants to wake up as himself or not at all. Can Hammond order the doctor to kill Kawalsky? The ethical question behind that comment cuz Hammond agrees to give the order just boogles my mind. I understand he has been taken over by an alien entity, but it makes me cringe!

Spoiler:

I always assumed it was just Hammond saying whatever was necessary at the time. Kind of like the 'you're going to be fine' line when you aren't. Just to pacify Kawalsky just long enough to get the surgery done and deal with what to do if it doesn't work after it's found not to have worked. Plus it perhaps gave Jack the strength to do what is necessary at the end of the episode, knowing what Kawalsky's wishes were.

[VSS]

[QUOTE=Toomi;10105018]

Random medical ramblings:

Spoiler:

Jack sinks his head into his hands and we know something bad has happened. Janet dashes in and announces they're all in shock. Jack manages to state that Daniel is dead.

Tiny pet peeve- "shock" is an actual medical term, and these three don't have it because they're all walking around. But you hear it used a lot like this. Later on, Janet uses the term "psychological trauma," and that would be more accurate.

Janet is concerned about contamination and has SG-1's wet clothing analyzed.

That was a nice little detail. I don't think Janet has a clue what it could be but she's going to check out everything. She's great in this episode. For instance:

Janet is concerned about their mental well being and Hammond states that working together in the capacity that they creates a strong bond and wants to get them ack on the mission rotation as soon as possible. Janet manages to persuade him to put SG-1 on stand down for a few days.

I can see Hammonds point. I am one that when dealing with grief, pour myself into work, anything to keep me busy. However, I'm not putting my life or other people's lives at risk at work so I kind of see Janet's point too....

Janet's concern seems to me to be that something is not right, something beyond the loss of a team member. It's not that she disagrees with General Hammond about how to treat this kind of mental trauma- she just thinks that's not all that they have. And she puts her tiny little foot down quite well.

We see a funeral for Daniel, where Jack states that Daniel was SG-1's voice, conscience, that he was courageous. He calls Daniel his friend.

Why does Jack give the flag to Teal'c?

Jack and Sam put a wreath into the event horizon and the funeral/wake is over. It's a touching scene that made tears well up the first time I saw it.

This scene is terrific and that honor guard had to be the real deal. Watch their movements- they're razor sharp compared to RDA and AT. I wonder what the actors felt during this scene. I bet they weren't horsing around at all.

I think Teal'c got the flag in lieu of family, since Sam and Jack were the officers who needed to carry the wreath. Notice that Janet was right next to Teal'c.

Janet finds that they all have low seritonum levels, which can cause moodiness and depression.

That's true. That's why some of the newer antidepressants raise seritonin levels. I love the quality of the medical consulting in SG-1, and I adore Janet.

Why did Teal'c say hypnotism wouldn't work on him? He seemed mesmerized by the sound of the water- and he does Kell-noreem. I would have thought he'd be the perfect candidate.

Jack is pretty obstinate about hypnosis and Sam states she has some experience with it and volunteers.

I don't like it when a fanfic has Jack going to counseling of any kind. I think that there's no way in hell that he would.

Sam and Jack implications: The hug says so many things, and leaves me with questions all in one go. Jack is there for Sam's hypnosis for several reasons I think. Mostly to be there as the team leader to support his team mate as he would for Teal'c or Daniel too. I think he also wants to hear what Sam says, if it works. When she remembers what happened, her words trigger his memory and he too remembers. She's very clearly upset from reliving the memory and then realising that Daniel is alive but they've left him behind. Jack hugs her to comfort her and to comfort himself. He's feeling the same guilt/shock/horror that Sam is feeling, but doesn't show it. He needs that comfort too, while I don't think he'd admit it. If it had been Daniel reacting that way would Jack have hugged him? Or Teal'c? I don't think so.... HIs instinct is to hug her showing that he cares. Not as in loving care, not yet, but he sees a situation and reacts immediatly. I think it's his subconscious who does have an 'interest' in her perhaps, reacting fast. If Jack was in an observation room and had to run from one room to another would he have reacted the same way? I don't think he would have hugged her, just perhaps laid a comforting hand on her shoulder or something similar.

This is a really nice summary- the part in bold is so insightful and something I totally missed. Maybe that's why he hangs on to Sam for so long- he needs it as much as she does, maybe more.

Spoiler:

I always assumed it was just Hammond saying whatever was necessary at the time. Kind of like the 'you're going to be fine' line when you aren't. Just to pacify Kawalsky just long enough to get the surgery done and deal with what to do if it doesn't work after it's found not to have worked. Plus it perhaps gave Jack the strength to do what is necessary at the end of the episode, knowing what Kawalsky's wishes were.

Spoiler:

I don't know what kind of orders Kawalsky was talking about. All I can come up with is a directive to remove it all no matter what. Certainly, no doctor is going to outright kill Kawalsky no matter what Hammond asks. I agree with you that he'd never ask for that kind of thing to be done, anyway.

[VSS]

More thoughts on the hug (isn't this the first time we see one?) This doesn't look like a comrade-to-comrade hug to me. He's holding her like he would a little girl, with her head cradled in his hand- it's not just comforting, it's protective.

Is that any way to feel about a fellow soldier? I wonder what viewers thought the first time they saw that hug.

[KatG]

Is that any way to feel about a fellow soldier? I wonder what viewers thought the first time they saw that hug.

Wow. You're asking me to go waaaay back to remember that one. Looking at it now, it literally screams "ship" to me. Back then though, I don't really think it registered as such. the series was still very new, and I was just really trying to take in all the mythology and aside from "Broca" which could be explained away by the virus, at this point, I wasn't seeing ship as much as comrades/friends

[Toomi]

More thoughts on the hug (isn't this the first time we see one?) This doesn't look like a comrade-to-comrade hug to me. He's holding her like he would a little girl, with her head cradled in his hand- it's not just comforting, it's protective.

Is that any way to feel about a fellow soldier? I wonder what viewers thought the first time they saw that hug.

I think this is the first time we see one... Perhaps even first caring touch? (I'm excluding Broca Divide as that was pure raw want/need lol) When he moves his hand up her neck and into her hair, it's not a comrade touch. It's not even resembling a man/man hug and I've hugged males I'm not attracted to (friends etc) and no neck holding... I also love the way he curls his head towards her, head in neck hug. It's a very close hug.

Wow. You're asking me to go waaaay back to remember that one. Looking at it now, it literally screams "ship" to me. Back then though, I don't really think it registered as such. the series was still very new, and I was just really trying to take in all the mythology and aside from "Broca" which could be explained away by the virus, at this point, I wasn't seeing ship as much as comrades/friends

Did you watch it in order when it first came out? How many others here watched it in order the first time they saw SG-1? What were your thoughts on the ship? When did you see this ship?

I started at Entity purely by accident. I was home sick from work and it was on TV, so the next day I watched the next (Double Jeopardy) episode wondering if they would say if Sam and Jack were involved in anyway. I jumped into SG-1 for the ship in a way I think season 6 was starting on TV so I watched that weekly and bought season 3. I don't think I watched season 1 until perhaps when season 7 was on TV. This is the first time for me, watching all the SG-1 episodes in order by season.

So in a very long winded answer... when I saw the hug, I already was well invested in this ship. To me it was just another shippy moment, but rewatching it, it seems more significant now.

[gater62]

[QUOTE=VSS;10105145]

This scene is terrific and that honor guard had to be the real deal. Watch their movements- they're razor sharp compared to RDA and AT. I wonder what the actors felt during this scene. I bet they weren't horsing around at all.

I've read somewhere they used a real Air Force Honor guard to do this scene and it was absolutely marvelous! Just to watch it without even thinking of the scene, but just to watch their movements and the solemnity of the moment brings tears to my eyes.

More thoughts on the hug (isn't this the first time we see one?) This doesn't look like a comrade-to-comrade hug to me. He's holding her like he would a little girl, with her head cradled in his hand- it's not just comforting, it's protective.

Is that any way to feel about a fellow soldier? I wonder what viewers thought the first time they saw that hug.

I think the same thing... very protective! But when I was in the Navy, all the guys in my shop thought of me as their little sister and treated me as such. I was looked after, but at the same time I was expected to pull my own weight! Now I get the definite feeling Jack is not thinking of Sam as his little sister!

[VSS]

It's not even resembling a man/man hug and I've hugged males I'm not attracted to (friends etc) and no neck holding... I also love the way he curls his head towards her, head in neck hug. It's a very close hug.

It's closer than the hug he gives Sara in CL, I think.

Did you watch it in order when it first came out? How many others here watched it in order the first time they saw SG-1? What were your thoughts on the ship? When did you see this ship?

At first I was in it because I liked Sam, then for the ship, and now I'm finding myself to be a big Jack fan, too. I caught the Skiffy marathon right before Unending aired- up until then, I had NEVER seen stargate! I actually sat down to watch James SPader in the movie and got up about ten hours later. The marathons are always ship-fests, you know. Coincidence? I think not.

I haven't ever seen all the eps in order. That's why I wanted to do this rewatch, especially since the S/J thing developed over a looong time.

I've read somewhere they used a real Air Force Honor guard to do this scene and it was absolutely marvelous! Just to watch it without even thinking of the scene, but just to watch their movements and the solemnity of the moment brings tears to my eyes.

I had totally overlooked this scene before, but this time I was struck by how great it was. Last year I was in DC and saw the changing of the guard at the tomb of the Unknowns and that's what these guys looked like to me. I knew they were the real thing!

I think the same thing... very protective! But when I was in the Navy, all the guys in my shop thought of me as their little sister and treated me as such. I was looked after, but at the same time I was expected to pull my own weight! Now I get the definite feeling Jack is not thinking of Sam as his little sister!

Navy guy OT

Spoiler:

I worked at Balboa Naval Hospital for a few months and they were the same way. WHen they weren't asking me out, that is. Not a lot of women around there! I remember they would always get out the Buchwalter retractor so I didn't have to strain my delicate little muscles retracting during gallbladder surgery- but the male students had to buckle down and pull! Lol!

[Toomi]

It's closer than the hug he gives Sara in CL, I think.

At first I was in it because I liked Sam, then for the ship, and now I'm finding myself to be a big Jack fan, too. I caught the Skiffy marathon right before Unending aired- up until then, I had NEVER seen stargate! I actually sat down to watch James SPader in the movie and got up about ten hours later. The marathons are always ship-fests, you know. Coincidence? I think not.

I haven't ever seen all the eps in order. That's why I wanted to do this rewatch, especially since the S/J thing developed over a looong time.

I never thought about the hug from CL. I'm pretty sure you're right and it is a 'closer' hug.

Yeah, I jumped in for the ship, but stuck around for Jack. He was my fave character for a looooong time, but I love them all in their way.

Space likes it's marathons but they don't do Stargate ones often. ONly when they aired the new movies and Unending and yes, now that I think about it they were shippy episodes. I believe WoO was in all of the marathons...

[VSS]

I never thought about the hug from CL. I'm pretty sure you're right and it is a 'closer' hug.

Yeah, I jumped in for the ship, but stuck around for Jack. He was my fave character for a looooong time, but I love them all in their way.

Space likes it's marathons but they don't do Stargate ones often. ONly when they aired the new movies and Unending and yes, now that I think about it they were shippy episodes. I believe WoO was in all of the marathons...

Those marathons are a bit of a bait-and-switch, though. I think I saw Moebius and WoO for sure- then I bought some of the DVDs and my first reaction was "What?? You guys had the hottest ship in TV history and didn't show them finally getting together!" What a mistake that was- I am not a shipper by nature, i don't even watch much TV. Really, I was dumbfounded that they could blow it so badly. It took me about two months to get over it.

[Toomi]

Those marathons are a bit of a bait-and-switch, though. I think I saw Moebius and WoO for sure- then I bought some of the DVDs and my first reaction was "What?? You guys had the hottest ship in TV history and didn't show them finally getting together!" What a mistake that was- I am not a shipper by nature, i don't even watch much TV. Really, I was dumbfounded that they could blow it so badly. It took me about two months to get over it.

I can't remember any other ones as mostly I turned it off. Commercials irritate me I just remember being hooked at Entity and watching from then on, waiting to see if Sam and Jack ever got together. I was pretty excited for Threads. ( I hadn't discovered Gateworld then, if it was GW then. I think at that point I had just discovered Fanfiction.net.) However, by that point I was pretty into all the characters and wanted to see what would happen to all of them. While I wanted to see Sam and Jack getting together, the long awaited confirmation, I love angst. One of my favourite fics is absolutly dripping in it. I'm very much on the fence about getting confirmation as I don't want to lose the angst, but before it all ends, movies and tv series, I would like confirmation. Just to set my shippy heart at rest.

[Petra]

Just my 2 cents..
Looks like I'm a veteran here Children of the Gods was the first episode I saw, way back in 1998, about a year after its US premiere. With the exception of the first part of season 4 I saw all episodes in order.

As I mentioned earlier, I became a shipper sometime in season 3, after "POV" and to be honest I still tend to take all the "shippy" moments in seasons 1-2 as developing friendship first and foremost, with a bit of attraction underlining it. That's how I see this hug in F&W. For me it's just 2 people comforting each other after they realised they'd left their mutual friend in danger. Still in non-shippy way. Although I had never before thought of Jack needing the comfort as much as Sam, so thanks for pointing it out.

Oh, Sam and Jack are the only couple on tv/books/movies/wherever I ship.