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    Originally posted by col aga View Post
    Just my 2 cents..
    Looks like I'm a veteran here Children of the Gods was the first episode I saw, way back in 1998, about a year after its US premiere. With the exception of the first part of season 4 I saw all episodes in order.

    As I mentioned earlier, I became a shipper sometime in season 3, after "POV" and to be honest I still tend to take all the "shippy" moments in seasons 1-2 as developing friendship first and foremost, with a bit of attraction underlining it. That's how I see this hug in F&W. For me it's just 2 people comforting each other after they realised they'd left their mutual friend in danger. Still in non-shippy way. Although I had never before thought of Jack needing the comfort as much as Sam, so thanks for pointing it out.

    Oh, Sam and Jack are the only couple on tv/books/movies/wherever I ship.

    Looks like we're of the same opinion! I started watching from the beginning and agree with everything you've said above.
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      Originally posted by Toomi View Post
      [COLOR="Blue"]I
      [COLOR="blue"]Did you watch it in order when it first came out? How many others here watched it in order the first time they saw SG-1? What were your thoughts on the ship? When did you see this ship?
      Yes. I watched them in order. Like col aga, I didn't really see ship until P.O.V. There were inklings of it here and there, maybe a subconscious attraction between friends, but not something that they were really aware of. Then we got P.O.V, where they were an item in an AU, and not only do our S/J have a light bulb moment, but those with a shippy bent do as well. Then it's amped up in 100 Days, and then kind of simmers in the background until Upgrades, and then S4 is just full out ship, no question about it.
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        Here's a comment From one of TPTB, sometime after Divide & Conquer aired:
        "After three seasons (that's like three years in SG-time) things necessarily evolve. ... The Sam and Jack thread is not over. In spite of how many may feel, it did not begin with 'Divide and Conquer.' It was subtle, but there much much earlier. It will continue to be there, subtle perhaps, but still there."

        It's interesting to me that he had to explain that the S/J thing was present before D & C.
        Last edited by VSS; 30 April 2009, 11:19 AM.

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          Originally posted by VSS View Post
          Here's a comment From one of TPTB, sometime after Divide & Conquer aired:
          "After three seasons (that's like three years in SG-time) things necessarily evolve. ... The Sam and Jack thread is not over. In spite of how many may feel, it did not begin with 'Divide and Conquer.' It was subtle, but there much much earlier. It will continue to be there, subtle perhaps, but still there."

          It's interesting to me that he had to explain that the S/J thing was present before D & C.
          And it's pathetic we still didn't get a resolution after almost 10 years

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            Originally posted by VSS View Post
            Here's a comment From one of TPTB, sometime after Divide & Conquer aired:
            "After three seasons (that's like three years in SG-time) things necessarily evolve. ... The Sam and Jack thread is not over. In spite of how many may feel, it did not begin with 'Divide and Conquer.' It was subtle, but there much much earlier. It will continue to be there, subtle perhaps, but still there."

            It's interesting to me that he had to explain that the S/J thing was present before D & C.
            I agree Col Aga and the rest of you. I think the friendship was really developing in the first couple of seasons, but I think I really began shipping Jack and Sam in earnest after seeing Solititudes! Sam's desperation to save Jack, Jack willing to sacrifice himself so Sam could survive! *shippy sigh* I really started looking for more elements of ship (but deep friendship), but hoping for signs of romance. Then a couple of episodes later we get TBFtGoG! Wow!!! Then I knew I was right; after all, how can an alternate universe be wrong? I needed no statement from tptb to know there is subtle ship!
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              Originally posted by silly sally View Post
              And it's pathetic we still didn't get a resolution after almost 10 years
              Well, there are lots of reasons for that, I guess, some of which I like and some of which are rather weak, IMHO.

              It's just so interesting that on the one hand there are people who don't see any ship at all and think there's nothing going on between S/J that could be called a romance- and then there are people who think that they've been inundated with S/J ship! I wonder if there's some kind of relationship sensor that people have- some have the gain turned way up, and some have it turned nearly off!

              And that's an entirely separate issue from whether one likes the S/J ship.

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                I decided to start shipping Sam and Jack early on, but for me, that was more the fanon type of shipping I do when I see two characters that kind of spark for me. I didn't actually think the writers were blatantly going to go there as canon until Divide and Conquer. So up until that point, I counted it as one of my fanon ships, but after D and C, I started counting it as one of my canon ships. It made me look at some of the earlier episodes a bit differently, but I actually enjoy their interactions more in some of those earlier seasons than in some of the later heavy-ship-angst seasons. I like how the heavy angst eased up after a while (some see it as resolution, some see it as a bit more understanding,YMMV) and I liked some of the more bantery Sam and Jack interactions than the more melodramatic scenes.

                It's why I'm not one to really want a big ship resolution scene. Yes, I ship them and think they have some nice chemistry, and little side references you can pick up and interpret are my favorite. But not a big fan when the music swells and they stare at each other with these odd expressions of angst. I don't know if it's just that we've had too many or what, but not my cup of tea. Though I know a lot of people really eat that up, so it's interesting to see how everyone perceives Sam and Jack differently.
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                  Originally posted by col aga View Post
                  Just my 2 cents..
                  Looks like I'm a veteran here Children of the Gods was the first episode I saw, way back in 1998, about a year after its US premiere. With the exception of the first part of season 4 I saw all episodes in order.

                  As I mentioned earlier, I became a shipper sometime in season 3, after "POV" and to be honest I still tend to take all the "shippy" moments in seasons 1-2 as developing friendship first and foremost, with a bit of attraction underlining it. That's how I see this hug in F&W. For me it's just 2 people comforting each other after they realised they'd left their mutual friend in danger. Still in non-shippy way. Although I had never before thought of Jack needing the comfort as much as Sam, so thanks for pointing it out.

                  Oh, Sam and Jack are the only couple on tv/books/movies/wherever I ship.
                  I too get the veteran title, I caught SG1 on showtime in the second season (holiday was my first ep) and have been watching it faithfully ever since. I admit to being one of those who did "see" sparks with sam and jack... ok it was in part because she looked so much like his ex-wife (men do have types ) but also their interaction just caught my attention. it was obvious they were attracted to each other (c'mon who wouldn't be to those two!) but then as the seasons went on I could see the relationship change. it reminds me of a Vanessa Williams song... "Save the best for last".... vid idea anyone?


                  Oh and I do want a good confirmation! (BHK please!)

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                    Did you watch it in order when it first came out? How many others here watched it in order the first time they saw SG-1? What were your thoughts on the ship? When did you see this ship?

                    I didn't start watching regularly until just before season 7 - I did so much traveling for work that I didn't even have cable TV from 1991 thru 2001 - I wasn't home enough to want to pay for it. I actually found Stargate Mondays on SciFi when they were running 4 SG-1 episodes in a row. They were somewhere in late season 2 or early season 3 at the time.

                    I was first and foremost a Jack/RDA fan. I had discovered the Stargate episode guides on the RDAnderson web site and wondered why they listed Jack using Sam's first name as a significant event. I immediately bought all the available seasons on DVD and staged my own SG -1 marathon to catch up.

                    By the time that Season 7 started airing on SciFi, I had seen Season 4 and was a confirmed JS shipper. But I didn't know what "ship" was until I stumbled into Gateworld a year or so later (where I am mostly a lurker )

                    Martha

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                      Originally posted by Toomi View Post
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                      Sam and Jack implications: The hug says so many things, and leaves me with questions all in one go. Jack is there for Sam's hypnosis for several reasons I think. Mostly to be there as the team leader to support his team mate as he would for Teal'c or Daniel too. I think he also wants to hear what Sam says, if it works. When she remembers what happened, her words trigger his memory and he too remembers. She's very clearly upset from reliving the memory and then realising that Daniel is alive but they've left him behind. Jack hugs her to comfort her and to comfort himself. He's feeling the same guilt/shock/horror that Sam is feeling, but doesn't show it. He needs that comfort too, while I don't think he'd admit it. If it had been Daniel reacting that way would Jack have hugged him? Or Teal'c? I don't think so.... HIs instinct is to hug her showing that he cares. Not as in loving care, not yet, but he sees a situation and reacts immediatly. I think it's his subconscious who does have an 'interest' in her perhaps, reacting fast. If Jack was in an observation room and had to run from one room to another would he have reacted the same way? I don't think he would have hugged her, just perhaps laid a comforting hand on her shoulder or something similar.

                      For the team as a whole, as General Hammond states early on, the work that SG-1 does makes them close. I think this is when we start to see the deep bonds of friendship starting to emerge.

                      On another note, on the planet the three moons on the horizon are gorgeous!!!! [/COLOR]
                      Originally posted by VSS View Post
                      More thoughts on the hug (isn't this the first time we see one?) This doesn't look like a comrade-to-comrade hug to me. He's holding her like he would a little girl, with her head cradled in his hand- it's not just comforting, it's protective.

                      Is that any way to feel about a fellow soldier? I wonder what viewers thought the first time they saw that hug.
                      Originally posted by Toomi View Post
                      I think this is the first time we see one... Perhaps even first caring touch? (I'm excluding Broca Divide as that was pure raw want/need lol) When he moves his hand up her neck and into her hair, it's not a comrade touch. It's not even resembling a man/man hug and I've hugged males I'm not attracted to (friends etc) and no neck holding... I also love the way he curls his head towards her, head in neck hug. It's a very close hug.
                      Quoting you both on the hug because I think between you you've got it exactly there. I think the sponteneity of the hug is very important - Jack is hugging her as a reaction, not as any deliberate action. So it actually reveals a lot about his subconscious attitude to Sam, and here I think it's part instinctive protectiveness towards her, and part a feeling of shared emotional connection based on them being part of the same 'family' that is grieving for a lost member. But it's certainly a very close hug, very much a man hugging a woman he cares about - it's a hug that says he wants to hold her safe against everything and make it all better. *sigh* He definitely would not have hugged Teal'c (but I bet he'd have put his hand on his shoulder), but he may well have hugged Daniel - as we see in Need, and Jack does display a protective streak towards Daniel that he doesn't towards Teal'c. But he wouldn't hug Daniel in quite that way

                      Did you watch it in order when it first came out? How many others here watched it in order the first time they saw SG-1? What were your thoughts on the ship? When did you see this ship?

                      I started at Entity purely by accident. I was home sick from work and it was on TV, so the next day I watched the next (Double Jeopardy) episode wondering if they would say if Sam and Jack were involved in anyway. I jumped into SG-1 for the ship in a way I think season 6 was starting on TV so I watched that weekly and bought season 3. I don't think I watched season 1 until perhaps when season 7 was on TV. This is the first time for me, watching all the SG-1 episodes in order by season.

                      So in a very long winded answer... when I saw the hug, I already was well invested in this ship. To me it was just another shippy moment, but rewatching it, it seems more significant now.
                      I watched it in order, every episode on DVD I became a shipper with PoV, so first time I saw this I didn't see ship in it per se. In fact, I think I was slightly wary of ship after the introduction scene in CotG and the Broca Divide kiss, both of which seemed a bit blatant to me - I was worried that it was going to be a big cliche So the fact that I became such a huge shipper from PoV onwards shows how subtly and carefully the ship was introduced, those two moments aside. It developed along with the characters, so that as you became emotionally invested in them, you became emotionally invested in their relationship. Or it did for me, at least So I think in retrospect this was one of the moments and interactions that contributed to that development - nothing I would have remarked upon particularly first time round, but if it (and many of the other early shippy moments) hadn't happened then I wouldn't have found myself buying into the ship. If that makes sense But it's one of the things I really love about this ship, that it did grow without being in your face about it (as in that fab quote VSS just posted) - it slipped in under the radar, almost, so that by the time it became overt, as in D&C, it rang true because the build-up had been there for a while.
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                        Glad you de-lurked Martha/Maine Girl

                        I think it's interesting so many people started to ship S/J inseason 3. I remember reading some interviews with TPTB where they explained they made ship more noticeable, for the lack of better word, in response to fan demands on the Internet. Apparently there were some folks who wanted Sam and Jack to "get it on" right from CotG. I wonder if some of them are still around..

                        As for confirmation in the third movie, I'm on the fence here. On the one hand I'd really like some pay off for all those years (just no wedding or anything sickly sweet, I don't think I'd stomach it), but on the other I've read some really great fanfics (mostly by Annerb and Announnaki) which had them getting together shortly after Threads and I've been living in this little fantasy world quite happily.

                        If the third movie shows them as a couple, I'm all for it. But if it shows them still trying to get together - I don't want to watch it.
                        There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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                          Well, all I can say about you people that have been around since the early seasons is- you're all better shippers than I'll ever be! I probably would have bailed out after Chimera- or if I had stuck it out longer, probably sometime in season 9. I'm only here now because of the next movie and its potential to wrap up this story arc.

                          Originally posted by josiane View Post
                          I watched it in order, every episode on DVD I became a shipper with PoV, so first time I saw this I didn't see ship in it per se. In fact, I think I was slightly wary of ship after the introduction scene in CotG and the Broca Divide kiss, both of which seemed a bit blatant to me - I was worried that it was going to be a big cliche So the fact that I became such a huge shipper from PoV onwards shows how subtly and carefully the ship was introduced, those two moments aside. It developed along with the characters, so that as you became emotionally invested in them, you became emotionally invested in their relationship. Or it did for me, at least So I think in retrospect this was one of the moments and interactions that contributed to that development - nothing I would have remarked upon particularly first time round, but if it (and many of the other early shippy moments) hadn't happened then I wouldn't have found myself buying into the ship. If that makes sense But it's one of the things I really love about this ship, that it did grow without being in your face about it (as in that fab quote VSS just posted) - it slipped in under the radar, almost, so that by the time it became overt, as in D&C, it rang true because the build-up had been there for a while.
                          What a nice description, josi! That bit in bold really rings true. This is the kind of thing you just won't get out of it unless you watch it all, in order, from the beginning. In that way I am truly envious, but as I said before, I'd have become a bitter ex-shipper by now anyway.

                          Originally posted by col aga View Post

                          If the third movie shows them as a couple, I'm all for it. But if it shows them still trying to get together - I don't want to watch it.
                          Agreed. That's when I really will become a bitter ex-shipper, because there's no excuse for it, and it's just defies all logic that they'd have put it off that long.

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                            Originally posted by KatG View Post
                            Good point. I remember thinking there had to have been a better way to destroy the tank, without alerting the priest and Jaffa. After all a P-90 isn't exactly quiet. Another indicator that Daniel really wasn't thinking, he was just acting on emotion.
                            It's also not very Jaffa-ish. Whoever found it would know exactly who had done it



                            Originally posted by josiane View Post
                            But it's one of the things I really love about this ship, that it did grow without being in your face about it (as in that fab quote VSS just posted) - it slipped in under the radar, almost, so that by the time it became overt, as in D&C, it rang true because the build-up had been there for a while.
                            Yeah that's one of the things I love, it's not slammed down your throat it evolved over time. I think that's why some people find the hug in F&W shippy and for some it's only friendshippy. Personally I see it more as a scale than separate categories, as that's how I see it evolving as a relationship -them sliding along the scale. I'm not quite sure where I see it on the scale but as everyone has pointed out it clearly isn't the same type of hug he'd give anyone else. I think the part about him needing it too is an important one.
                            He starts holding her arms and then really pulls her to him - he needs the connection and needs to protect her, take away her guilt/pain. Reflected in holding the back of her head and slightly tilting his head into her neck.


                            For me when I first got into stargate I was watching them all out of order with no idea of what season I was watching. So D&C was one of the first ones I remember watching so that one probably made me a shipper, but I don't know how affective the others might have been in converting me . I'd definitely agree that in the very least the foundations were there S1 even if it wasn't necessarily as obvious until S3/4 (but then as I said I kinda like that )

                            Originally posted by col aga View Post
                            If the third movie shows them as a couple, I'm all for it. But if it shows them still trying to get together - I don't want to watch it.
                            Definitely! With you 100% on that one!
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                              Originally posted by col aga View Post
                              Glad you de-lurked Martha/Maine Girl

                              I think it's interesting so many people started to ship S/J inseason 3. I remember reading some interviews with TPTB where they explained they made ship more noticeable, for the lack of better word, in response to fan demands on the Internet. Apparently there were some folks who wanted Sam and Jack to "get it on" right from CotG. I wonder if some of them are still around..

                              As for confirmation in the third movie, I'm on the fence here. On the one hand I'd really like some pay off for all those years (just no wedding or anything sickly sweet, I don't think I'd stomach it), but on the other I've read some really great fanfics (mostly by Annerb and Announnaki) which had them getting together shortly after Threads and I've been living in this little fantasy world quite happily.

                              If the third movie shows them as a couple, I'm all for it. But if it shows them still trying to get together - I don't want to watch it.
                              Ohhhh, Annerb. She's got some amazing fics.

                              With you on the confirmation. I also don't want anything over the top or too in your face.

                              For the ship evolution... my thoughts were always that the first season it was just two people put together on a team. They develop a working relationship, which slowly evolves. They start to care about each other as people and co-workers which starts fairly early in season 1. As they get to know each other something else happens but they don't realise it.

                              Have you ever at any point worked on a team/with a group and worked really well with someone and then someone points out that the other person 'likes' you? Suddenly things seem different, every moment is anazlysed, little glances mean more etc. Even if no one says anything, at some point 'a light goes on' and you just realise you like that person more than just a friend. (yeah, corny I know but it's the best way I could put that...)

                              I think something like that happened between Sam and Jack. I don't think they realised that they had 'more than mere friendship/co-worder feelings' for each other until a bit later. (D&C) Until then I think that while there is a fleeting thought possibly, there isn't a conscious thought of 'liking' the other than more than a friend/coworker.
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                                Originally posted by Toomi View Post

                                I think something like that happened between Sam and Jack. I don't think they realised that they had 'more than mere friendship/co-worder feelings' for each other until a bit later. (D&C) Until then I think that while there is a fleeting thought possibly, there isn't a conscious thought of 'liking' the other than more than a friend/coworker.
                                I agree, and it's kind of cute, actually, because they don't see it- but we do. In their particular case I think they'd actually try very, very hard not to see it, considering the ramifications.

                                One of my very favorite of these little moments where we "get it" but they don't is in Shades of Grey when the audience is literally seeing things from Jack's point of view through his binoculars and we watch Sam and only Sam as the team emerges from the stargate where he's waiting for the pick-up to occur. You can just tell he misses her dreadfully- it's such an "awww how cute" moment. He's not even looking at the drop site!

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