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    Originally posted by Aveo_amacus View Post
    totally with you

    On the women given 100 blissful days I didn't take it to mean anything, Alekos said the samething about men to Daniel


    On a completely different note, in the scene where they are discussing the ages of the Chosen is it just me or does Carter seem quite happy with the baby, I mean in a not scared of him, happy to hold his food, sort of way; there are quite a few instances in fandom where Sam is protrayed very baby-shy, any thoughts??
    Oh, I've never thought that! Do the authors use it as the rationale why Sam didn't seem to want to have kids? If you think about the baby there, Nefreyu in The Nox, Cassie, her enthusiasm in CotG about being an auntie, I've always thought she'd be great with kids.

    I guess I've always felt that she simply wouldn't be able to devote her life to her work and a child, too. And Jack. There just isn't enough of her to go around. And if there's one thing Sam wants, it's to do things right!

    I've always wondered where people get the idea Teal'c would be great with kids. I see that from time to time and I think it's a fun juxtaposition, but unlikely.

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      Originally posted by VSS View Post
      Oh, I've never thought that! Do the authors use it as the rationale why Sam didn't seem to want to have kids? If you think about the baby there, Nefreyu in The Nox, Cassie, her enthusiasm in CotG about being an auntie, I've always thought she'd be great with kids.

      I guess I've always felt that she simply wouldn't be able to devote her life to her work and a child, too. And Jack. There just isn't enough of her to go around. And if there's one thing Sam wants, it's to do things right!

      I've always wondered where people get the idea Teal'c would be great with kids. I see that from time to time and I think it's a fun juxtaposition, but unlikely.
      I'm in agreement with your thoughts. I've often wondered where writers got the idea that Sam was baby/children-shy, though it does make for interesting stories. I thought of the same list of episodes that show her enthusiasm for and interest in children, and would just add Merrin in "Learning Curve". She's so good with children and learning from, as well as teaching them things.

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        Originally posted by hedwig View Post
        I'm in agreement with your thoughts. I've often wondered where writers got the idea that Sam was baby/children-shy, though it does make for interesting stories. I thought of the same list of episodes that show her enthusiasm for and interest in children, and would just add Merrin in "Learning Curve". She's so good with children and learning from, as well as teaching them things.
        Oh, that's another good one.
        In Affinity, she makes that comment about dropping the baby off at daycare before going to the Crab Nebulae. I think that's what really bothered her. Not the idea of a baby itself. Which is kind of sad, considering how Jack clearly loves kids.

        And how unfortunate for humanity! Those are some pretty great genes eliminated from the pool.

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          Exactly I think she's scared about splitting her focus. That it's hard to do both of them to a high enough standard, and as you say VSS, in Affinity I think she's is very aware that she could die in her line of work and doesn't want her child to be motherless. But yeah I can see her being great with children

          I think with Teal'c it comes from the fact he has a son maybe the way he was in Learning Curve too, and how he was trying to be nice with Cassie at the beginning of Singularity, btbh I can't see him having that much hands on experience raising Ry'ac; the structure of Jaffa society seems too skewed for that imho
          Last edited by Aveo_amacus; 25 April 2009, 02:11 PM.
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            Originally posted by VSS View Post
            Oh, that's another good one.
            In Affinity, she makes that comment about dropping the baby off at daycare before going to the Crab Nebulae. I think that's what really bothered her. Not the idea of a baby itself. Which is kind of sad, considering how Jack clearly loves kids.

            And how unfortunate for humanity! Those are some pretty great genes eliminated from the pool.
            Ehem, I hope I won't be thrown out of here for this blasphemy but I don't see them having kids together. Ever.

            Now, I agree that Sam would make a great mom and it's a fear of not being good enough and possibly orphaning it holding her back, not the lack of wanting. There's also no doubt Jack's great with kids.

            But by the time they finally get together, too much time has passed. I don't see either one of them giving up their jobs to raise children. But the main reason is, IMO, the idea of a child brings them more angst, uncertainty and pain than happiness. Sam would worry about not giving her child enough attention/love/care (however I agree that wouldn't be the case) and Jack still fights his demons concerning Charlie. In "Show and tell" he pretty much admits he doesn't consider himself a good father (again, I agree it's ridiculous, but it's his perception of himself) and his time had passed. No matter how much Jack wants a kid, I don't think he'd be able to let go of his guilt and fear of screwing up.

            Originally posted by Aveo_amacus
            I think with Teal'c it comes from the fact he has a son maybe the way he was in Learning Curve too, and how he was trying to be nice with Cassie at the beginning of Singularity, btbh I can't see him having that much hands on experience raising Ry'ac; the structure of Jaffa society seems to skewed for that imho
            I agree.
            There's a good chance this opinion is shared by Ashizuri
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              Originally posted by col aga View Post
              Ehem, I hope I won't be thrown out of here for this blasphemy but I don't see them having kids together. Ever.

              Now, I agree that Sam would make a great mom and it's a fear of not being good enough and possibly orphaning it holding her back, not the lack of wanting. There's also no doubt Jack's great with kids.

              But by the time they finally get together, too much time has passed. I don't see either one of them giving up their jobs to raise children. But the main reason is, IMO, the idea of a child brings them more angst, uncertainty and pain than happiness. Sam would worry about not giving her child enough attention/love/care (however I agree that wouldn't be the case) and Jack still fights his demons concerning Charlie. In "Show and tell" he pretty much admits he doesn't consider himself a good father (again, I agree it's ridiculous, but it's his perception of himself) and his time had passed. No matter how much Jack wants a kid, I don't think he'd be able to let go of his guilt and fear of screwing up.
              Nope, I don't really see it either.

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                Originally posted by Aveo_amacus View Post
                I don't think it's "canon" as much as a requirement for being an Officer
                Yep it a requirement in today's military, a BS or BA for an officer (lieutenant), a MS or MA by the time you are a major (unless you are like sam and did the degrees first).

                Great discussions - here's my two cents worth-
                BC--
                I never saw "old jack" in brief candle as OOC, remember he is not truly "old" ...just a few days have passed.... but his body is failing him at an alarming rate... I am sure that was incredibly unsettling to man like him. when he finally normally ages he will remain the jack we all know and love.
                Also the issue of male rape is handled very badly in sg1 9and in most shows... it is almost like it is a male's fantasy so i wasn't surprised it was ignored.
                I also agree that Daniel dropped the ball over the cake. bad anthropologist!
                thors hammer-
                I agreed with col aga about WHY jack had daniel destroy the hammer, he had to know daniel would follow orders and allow daniel to make a tough decision for himself. when Teal'c has to kill Shau're to save daniel later on, daniel is able to forgive him for it. I think the time between the two incidents allowed daniel to learn to trust his team.
                I also liked Kendra and Gairwyn and was pleased to see strong women portrayed. One question... we never saw a family for Kendra but in Thor's chariot we discover her whole family was wiped out...was she married/had kids in the first one???

                the nox-
                I liked the softer side of sam we saw with nefrayu, too often in later seasons I see her treated as if she were totally asexual. in this ep we saw jack being accepting of her softer side.
                Last edited by Rac80; 25 April 2009, 01:48 PM.

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                  Originally posted by josiane View Post
                  Brief Candle
                  I agree with all of you, I really don't like this episode so much, the storyline's just icky, and I find it hard to get past that.
                  One look at the scantily-clad, good looking aliens made me think of the cheesy Star Trek episodes.

                  Originally posted by VSS
                  I think the biggest objection that I have to this ep is Jack’s personality. He seems to undergo a lifetime of emotional changes, which I don’t quite buy since that would seem to be based on one’s life experiences. I think Kynthia and her wisdom is a little too superficial to have precipitated the kind of changes in his outlook that he seems to have had. Charlie's death and his subsequent divorce never made him open up- why would he now? And the little speech to her in the end seems so OOC. Contrast the Jack of CL with this Jack and the difference is really striking. I think he talks more about himself in this single episode than in the entire rest of the series. So, does he really start cherishing each and every day after this ep? I don’t think so, or he’d have seen this as a second chance, ditched the SGC and gone back to Sara. To be honest, Jack literally becomes a sentimental old man, and it doesn’t suit him.
                  Originally posted by josiane
                  I'd never thought of this, but I think you're exactly right here. There was always something else about this episode that bugged me, in addition to the ick of the Kynthia storyline, and I think this is it - old Jack just doesn't really feel like Jack. Great thoughts on all this and on the divorce with Sara after CL though everyone!
                  I agree with both of you. I have a big problem with RDA's choice of acting style for 'old Jack'. As mentioned above, I also feel it is very out of character.

                  I also think that Sam was both very concerned about what happened between Jack and Kynthia, and disappointed at his actions.

                  I feel the basic storyline is a good idea, but ended up being a clichéd sci fi episode.
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                    [QUOTE=Rac80;10086482]
                    Also the issue of male rape is handled very badly in sg1 9and in most shows... it is almost like it is a male's fantasy so i wasn't surprised it was ignored.
                    Yes, I had thought that too! The whole dance scene seemed to me like an adolescent male fantasy run wild. Well, that's what I would think if I were an adolescent male, anyway. I was very surprised to find that a woman wrote this ep.

                    One question... we never saw a family for Kendra but in Thor's chariot we discover her whole family was wiped out...was she married/had kids in the first one???
                    There was no mention of marriage in this first ep. In fact, she seemed like an outcast, in a way. Perhaps her facing her fears allowed her the self-confidence to integrate more fully into the society. That could be the point of her whole little story arc! Nice catch.

                    Originally posted by dipsofjazz View Post
                    One look at the scantily-clad, good looking aliens made me think of the cheesy Star Trek episodes.
                    Ditto!
                    I agree with both of you. I have a big problem with RDA's choice of acting style for 'old Jack'. As mentioned above, I also feel it is very out of character.
                    Oh, please elaborate!

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                      Originally posted by VSS View Post
                      Oh, please elaborate!
                      I felt it was yet another clichéd bumbling old man. Perhaps it was more the direction he was given rather than his acting style, but it was just 'off' for me.

                      Someone mentioned (sorry, I can't remember who it was) that they liked the make-up for old Jack, and I agree that the wrinkles and liver spots etc were all good. But why, oh why, does every old man we encounter never use a pair of scissors and cut their hair? Does good grooming disappear once one reaches a certain age? They sent all sorts of equipment through the gate, but forgot the scissors?

                      We know this episode was written by a female, and all of us seem to dislike the dancing scene, but perhaps that was also the director's call, rather than the writer's?
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                        On the idea that Sam would be freaked out by babies... I actually wonder whether the cause for this in fanon has come from Brief Candle, from the way Sam reacts when the guys look at her when they encounter the woman in labour in the temple. But I agree it's actually counter to all we see of Sam with kids throughout the series - she always reacts and interacts very well and naturally with them. Just I wonder if that might be what some fans/fanfic writers have picked up for the fanon assumption. It's a bit off though, seeing as I think many people who are fabulous with kids would balk at the prospect of delivering a baby! Heck, Jack does, and yet no-one ever questions his comfort with kids
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                          Originally posted by josiane View Post
                          On the idea that Sam would be freaked out by babies... I actually wonder whether the cause for this in fanon has come from Brief Candle, from the way Sam reacts when the guys look at her when they encounter the woman in labour in the temple. But I agree it's actually counter to all we see of Sam with kids throughout the series - she always reacts and interacts very well and naturally with them. Just I wonder if that might be what some fans/fanfic writers have picked up for the fanon assumption. It's a bit off though, seeing as I think many people who are fabulous with kids would balk at the prospect of delivering a baby! Heck, Jack does, and yet no-one ever questions his comfort with kids
                          I think a lot of it might be connected to the fact that at first Sam was a little awkward with Cassie. Which I don't think it really meant anything, just... What do you say to a little girl that's lost everything and everyone she's ever knew? Sam looked... I wouldn't say uncomfortable... but more uncertain as to what to do, since clearly Cassie was instantly attached to her. And like every other thing in fanon it was blown out of proportion.
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                            Originally posted by jasminaGo View Post
                            I think a lot of it might be connected to the fact that at first Sam was a little awkward with Cassie. Which I don't think it really meant anything, just... What do you say to a little girl that's lost everything and everyone she's ever knew? Sam looked... I wouldn't say uncomfortable... but more uncertain as to what to do, since clearly Cassie was instantly attached to her. And like every other thing in fanon it was blown out of proportion.
                            I agree, but even in singularity it only takes her a little while to get the feel of it, emotionally she's there too.

                            I agree Twin, I think that scene probably does inspire a lot of it. She says "I don't know what to do" but we do see her in the next scene assisting Daniel, she's not afraid to either learn or get her hands dirty, she's just pointing out she doesn't have this skill.. and to be honest at this point loving babies/ being good with them doesn't factor in much at this point
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                              Originally posted by dipsofjazz View Post
                              I felt it was yet another clichéd bumbling old man. Perhaps it was more the direction he was given rather than his acting style, but it was just 'off' for me.
                              Oh, I think I see what you mean. Yes. It wasn't as if he was Jack, but older- it was as if he was not the same person. Even some of the words he used seemed to be the turn of phrase a stereotypical old man would say. For instance, when he lost tic-tac-toe to Kynthia, he said "Aw, hell.." in this old-fashioned twang. Strange.

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                                Originally posted by VSS View Post
                                Oh, I think I see what you mean. Yes. It wasn't as if he was Jack, but older- it was as if he was not the same person. Even some of the words he used seemed to be the turn of phrase a stereotypical old man would say. For instance, when he lost tic-tac-toe to Kynthia, he said "Aw, hell.." in this old-fashioned twang. Strange.
                                Yes, that's what I mean. I don't see Jack, but just some random old man. (with long hair )
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