Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

for clarification on the LA thing: the ultimate goal is that the galaxy, which for the largest part suffered from the goauld's fall and conquering planets and killing people is basically fair game and the right of the strongest, becomes a safer, more developed place. they achieve that on the long run by just existing, since they earn money, invest it in planets, and provide work with their war. getting rich and powerful in the process is basically an automated part of the process. the only real way is if the hebridan, jaffa and (advanced) humans do care about them. consider it a bit like Somalia, since it's a craphole and a bunch of people figured that capturing ships was big buisness and now people actually have work and get money. not everyone, and it's not picture perfect, but it's trading a crap life for a less crap life.

I love how propaganda can take over one's mind, so you actually believe it.

Let's be honest here, the ultimate goal of the LA is this: they end up with MORE STUFF (power, money, what-have-you) than everyone else. It's your basic criminal cartel, just IN SPACE.

All this nonsense about a "greater good" is just that; nonsense. They're the Mafia of space.

[Exthalion]

Except that the high end alien powers have no objection with punishing the leaders even if we couldn't link them to the crimes.

[Davidtourniquet]

How ridiculous does a 10th chevron sound?

Essentially, 7 is intragalactic with a standard power system, 8 is intergalactic with a zpm, 9 is to Destiny/universal with a naquadria core planet, 10 could be interdimensional with a project arcturus power source.

[Crazy Tom]

How ridiculous does a 10th chevron sound?

*reaches for a metal wrench to squash this idea before it's even off the ground*

Except that the high end alien powers have no objection with punishing the leaders even if we couldn't link them to the crimes.

Can't link them? Only a few societies don't use memory scanners on "moral" grounds. Everybody else can just look into their brain to see what they've been up to.

[Davidtourniquet]

thanks tom lol, I know that the MW stargates only have 9 "locks", but the Pegasus ones never had to "lock", same with the universe ones.

[Princess Awinita]

This planet of your's I have several questions.

1. Is it a rocky planet like our own?
2. when you say the ships are stationary, are ther in geo orbit, or are they at one of the planets Lagrange?

1: By now, since I mentioned it, the planet is basically a city. 90/10 basically. Its the size of Jupiter, but it is nothing like it because it is all city, whereas the poles are powergeneration/industrial centers, etc. So at one point it was rockey yes, But after constant exxpansion and construction, not ot mention the average of 15 new Kitlings a year (every 400 days) to a single pair of parents. That's a lot of cats.

2: The ships are in geo orbit yes. Since the Breederships are so large, the smaller ships, the Military Breederships basically speaking, are the ones that move. the Breederships are too large as they'd cause too much strain on the systems. The planet has a Stargate, but it does not have a DAD per sei.

[thekillman]

I love how propaganda can take over one's mind, so you actually believe it.

Let's be honest here, the ultimate goal of the LA is this: they end up with MORE STUFF (power, money, what-have-you) than everyone else. It's your basic criminal cartel, just IN SPACE.

All this nonsense about a "greater good" is just that; nonsense. They're the Mafia of space.

what is the most basic reason for war ? that people are unhappy. why do people fight wars? because they feel that they have no choice left because nobody listens to them. how can you end a war? by removing the need for it.

criminal cartels exist for reasons. on earth, it's because it's a way to get incredibly rich, incredibly fast, incredibly easily. for the LA that doesn't really apply. if anything, it's power. there is a powervacuum and the LA is filling that one up.

Not true, the LA is neither very powerful industrially or intellectually,

wrong. if the LA is truely as dumb as portrayed in Sg1, they would exist for 3 weeks before they're exterminated. if anything, they're too dumb to live. too dumb to breathe. that LA can under no circumstances have continued to exist.


personally i think it kinda went like this:

the original LA has plenty of dumb people (sg1). fortunately for them, smart people smell an easy way to get rich and powerful. they kill the dummies. (Odai Ventrell is an example). the LA more or less reforms to a more powerful one. the first war ends when earth discovers the location of a Convening of the Lords, nukes the place to hell and the LA shatters. people grab their share of power and hide. it's not untill potent, intelligent people gather people "holding" the old "fragments" and find new allies, grow back their factions and once again create the alliance between the lords, reincarnating the Lucian Alliance.

you can decapitate the LA again. it's possible but the LA doesn't do convocations the old way. you'd have to individually assassinate them. within a really short time frame because otherwise new Lords step up. most lords in the current LA have First Commanders under them capable of taking over. if, say, Omari dies, well he'll have a worthy successor, he presumably has picked the person already to insta-inherit his power.


to say the LA has no ideology is IMHO a lie. people have ideologies, people have beliefs. in the very core, even the most evil organisation like, say, al Quaida have noble motives. it's just that evil organisations like Al Quaida abuse that ideology (for them it's creating better circumstances for them, and well the West isn't exactly helping, not in the right way) to send innocent people to their and other innocent people's deaths. it's abuse. they have a correct ideology, otherwise you won't get far anyway. i do believe that not every Lord does it purely for the power. or the money. some do. Omari i bet LOVES the commanding of his forces, the fear he instills, the power he wields at his fingertips. he's a big name, even in the alliance itself. Balr/Belre (i presume Balr is how the LA calls him and earth finds it so annoying to pronounce they call him Belre) is what i call an Economic lord. he doesn't do it for the power, the money, the fame. he's a big guy, a buisness man, someone who had a lot of money before he was a lord. no he does it for the protection. cause anyone would kill to get his Imperium. no, being a Lord has it's perks. it certainly helps with those pesky complainting people.

Xenar's lord, Za (experimental military) in my mind never joined willingly but in stead, got forced into the first alliance. maybe by people, maybe by circumstance. maybe both. essentially she climbed the ladder and when earth decapitated the Alliance, she took a share of power and eventually allied the other Lords.

like i said, War doesn't get you far when you have no motive. or as a TV Tropes page; Freelance Terrorists. those people have a cause. a right cause. they just, well, do it the wrong way. they instill terror (hence the name), to get attention. which is, like i said, the wrong way. but hey, it clearly works. the LA i do believe has a just cause. and i believe quite a few members believe in it. but like i also said before, it's not one-sided, it's not one-dimensional. what the LA is, is complex. united through being different. people do the same thing for very, very different reasons. not in the last place for money. not in the last place for power. but sometimes, fighting for a cause has it's perks. i mean, doesn't fulfilling any job come with it's perks. fighting for your county can get you up the ranks, and the higher the rank, the greater money and power you get. it's a basic mechanism.

Except that the high end alien powers have no objection with punishing the leaders even if we couldn't link them to the crimes.

quite frankly i'd assume the Hebridans would go for fair trial. Earth would -i presume- go for fair trial, find out it takes way too long to go through thousands of witnesses and people affected by them, and in the end ditch them on a penal colony to satisfy everyone. then a year later a nuke goes off in the penal colony and nobody has any idea who did it. the press claims it's other criminals wanting payback/wanting to eliminate competition.

the Jaffa would go for fair trial. which goes roughly like this: they get 3 witnesses to confirm some of their deeds. they ask if anyone has counter evidence. then they just give them capital punishment and shoot them. if they can't get witnesses because of reputation issues, they just get some random jaffa from some backwater planet, accuse him of a murder and kill the LA person regardless. last option is, that they don't actually capture any people but in stead shoot them on sight. any surrender is later claimed to be a trick by the LA and they shot out of self defense. or something along those lines.


the Tok'ra would go for fair trial. they'd presumably hook them up to a Za'tarc detector. since it's an incredible lie detector, their trials would probably go the fastest.

How ridiculous does a 10th chevron sound?

Essentially, 7 is intragalactic with a standard power system, 8 is intergalactic with a zpm, 9 is to Destiny/universal with a naquadria core planet, 10 could be interdimensional with a project arcturus power source.

on a scale from 1 to 10? 40.

i have thought about different gate systems. one important one is drastically changing what adresses represent, and another is more chevrons to create even more possible adresses

[Davidtourniquet]

Yeah, it was just an idea I had, I do find it strange that it's nine chevrons, ok there's nine "locks" on a gate, but why nine?

[bradly08]

1: By now, since I mentioned it, the planet is basically a city. 90/10 basically. Its the size of Jupiter, but it is nothing like it because it is all city, whereas the poles are powergeneration/industrial centers, etc. So at one point it was rockey yes, But after constant exxpansion and construction, not ot mention the average of 15 new Kitlings a year (every 400 days) to a single pair of parents. That's a lot of cats.

2: The ships are in geo orbit yes. Since the Breederships are so large, the smaller ships, the Military Breederships basically speaking, are the ones that move. the Breederships are too large as they'd cause too much strain on the systems. The planet has a Stargate, but it does not have a DAD per sei.

So basicly it is a planet that was once colonised, but over time it's surface has been covered by cities. That part I no problem with, but the idea of it being the size of jupiter I'm not so sure of...

[fugiman]

Yeah, it was just an idea I had, I do find it strange that it's nine chevrons, ok there's nine "locks" on a gate, but why nine?

Budget cuts

[StargateWatcher]

The Tka? I came up with these guys specifically to highlight what Earth's been missing. These guys are like ghosts, trying to take action against them would be a lot like trying to catch air with your hands. Besides, whatever their motivation, their interventions are likely to only make the galaxy a better place.

sad tho that the Tka have to negatively intervene first

[bradly08]

thanks tom lol, I know that the MW stargates only have 9 "locks", but the Pegasus ones never had to "lock", same with the universe ones.

Because bungie had the rights to 7

[Crazy Tom]

sad tho that the Tka have to negatively intervene first

Negatively? It's shadow justice, manipulating events from behind the scenes, eliminating bad guys with grace and subtlety. This is high entertainment for them. Imagine the docudramas they'll make about it.

Killman, ughh... it's the Mafia IN SPACE. No doubt they have different reasons, some of them may even be sort of good, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that these people have a very weak internal structure, their constant competition makes them distrustful of one another, and no government is ever going to emerge from that, no stable one. Not unless one of the Lords kills the rest and takes their domains, then starts organizing it along official lines... hmmm, I smell a possible plotline there.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Because the ancients had a special place in their hearts for nine? Because that's all it needed, perhaps??

I think we're scraping at bones and missing the soup, guys.


As for the LA -- we have different interpretations of both their function and their drive. I don't disagree that they have ideology; I just don't see it through rose-tinted glasses.


Edit: Tom, that's how the LA leader whose actions led to Disclosure came to power. The following events were the "First War" 'killman keeps referencing -- though it was never decided in as much detail as he gives. (Which is not to say his idea of how it went down is wrong, just that its technically not "canon" -- yet.)

[fugiman]

Guys I think that yes there will be a few of the old mind set Lucian Alliance members who are there only for power and wealth however I do find it hard to believe that no "smart" people could find a way to use the Lucian Alliance for good rather then evil.

I could see someone in the upper ranks who actually fought for the betterment of humanity instead of just being greedy. I do admit thought that those people who want to use the Lucian Alliance for good are few and in-between and will be the vast minority of the Lucian Alliance