Against Pete

[keshou]

well, even if RCC wrote it instead of Peter, it still is lazy writing or at least lazy editing if they took out the explanation of how pete got there.

it turned pete into nothing but a cheap plot device

all it would have taken is a sentence to explain how he got to the stake out, or a sentence of him apologizing at the end...but that didn't happen, hence, i see his character in a far less positive light than if there had been some attempt at explanation

Probably even worse that RCC/DK wrote it, they're even more experienced than PDL! Certainly agree with the cheap plot device thing, I thought it was pretty obvious that the episode was written to break the BWC with a "meaningful" boyfriend and they needed to find an excuse to tell him about the SGC.

I wonder if RCC/DK considered putting something in and didn't have time or what? Hard to believe they wouldn't see the same plot holes that the viewers did. I really don't think they meant for the viewers to dislike Pete or think he was a stalker (like some do) so I find it puzzling that they handled the end of the episode so clumsily.

I liked Pete, but I thought tailing Sam to the stakeout was over-the-top and I sure as heck wondered why the first words out of Sam's mouth weren't "what are you *doing* here"?? Instead of "I'll tell you everything".

I also regret that the Daniel/Osiris story seems to have been lost in all the Pete controversy. That was one of the best episodes for Daniel all season.

[Skydiver]

it's almost like they had the idea 'gee, ok, we need to de-osiris sarah, but that's only 20 minutes worth so...mmmhm, what will we do to kill the rest of the time?'
'Well, you know, we do want to break that black widow curse'
'we do'
'yeah'
'ok, so we give sam a boyfriend...but how do we tie that in?'
'umm....well....oh, wait, what if he's a reporter and he starts digging and finds things out'
'how will that complicate the daniel/osiris thing? reporters dont know what happens in a top secret base'
'they will if osiris comes to earth'
'ooh, ooooh, i like!!!'

I agree, i don't think they MEANT to make him stalkerish, but that's how it turned out. Pete came across as very possessive, and childish. Sam also came across as a far from independent woman and someone so desperate to keep 'her man' that she'd forgive anything.

i do think that they told him, not because everyone liked him, but to control him. Pete surely had to sign a non-disclosure agreement which means if he shoots his mouth off, he's committed treason.

but the part that bugs me is that a cop that sam's only known for a very short time (it's a month from evolution to death knell, meaning that she's been seeing pete for less than that time since he didn't appear in her visions nor was there any mention of him) gets told about the sgc, but her father, the two star general on his death bed needs a presidental ok to find out.

it's rather inconsistent and does even more to downgrade him in my eyes and reinforce the 'plot device' idea

[keshou]

it's almost like they had the idea 'gee, ok, we need to de-osiris sarah, but that's only 20 minutes worth so...mmmhm, what will we do to kill the rest of the time?'
'Well, you know, we do want to break that black widow curse'
'we do'
'yeah'
'ok, so we give sam a boyfriend...but how do we tie that in?'
'umm....well....oh, wait, what if he's a reporter and he starts digging and finds things out'
'how will that complicate the daniel/osiris thing? reporters dont know what happens in a top secret base'
'they will if osiris comes to earth'
'ooh, ooooh, i like!!!'

Hmmm.....been eavesdropping again???

i do think that they told him, not because everyone liked him, but to control him. Pete surely had to sign a non-disclosure agreement which means if he shoots his mouth off, he's committed treason.

Well now that's an interesting angle. Too bad they couldn't have dumped the passionate bedroom scene (which seemed out of place on Stargate anyway) to flesh this out.

but the part that bugs me is that a cop that sam's only known for a very short time ...snip....gets told about the sgc, but her father, the two star general on his death bed needs a presidental ok to find out.it's rather inconsistent and does even more to downgrade him in my eyes and reinforce the 'plot device' idea

Yep, but I guess I expect that they're going to bend their characterizations and the rules of their universe once in awhile in order to create the dramatic effect they're going for. It happens, especially in shows where you're getting "notes" from writers, producers, production companies and network execs. It's just harder to overlook when there are several implausibilities and plot holes in one episode!

[majorsal]

Does anyone know what other eps William Waring directed besides Chimera?

Sally

[Skydiver]

[QUOTE=Kes]Well now that's an interesting angle. Too bad they couldn't have dumped the passionate bedroom scene (which seemed out of place on Stargate anyway) to flesh this out.
QUOTE]

that woulda been nice. I got no issue with sam 'getting some', however the time span that's laid out in a later eps, it being a month from evol 2 to death knell, means that grace, chimera and fallout all happened within a month. Personally, that's too soon.

sam woulda needed a couple of weeks to recover from grace, chimera seemed to span about a week (if you interpret each dream sequence as a different night) and fallout had to have taken close to a week as well.

since pete's not apart of her life (and hallucinations) in grace, this implies that they've been dating mere days to a couple of weeks. now, i can see Sam throwing herself whole heartedly into a 'i'm gonna have a 'normal' life if it kills me' and dating him that fast, and possibly escalating the relationship to a physical one, but that time span is another thing that bugs me about pete. He's too clingy and possessive for having dated that short of a time.

had they not had the bedroom scene, then there wouldn't be that level of intimacy adn i would have seen him as less of a cad for walking out of a lady's boudoir and immediately calling the fbi to do a background check on her.

[bcmilco]

Does anyone know what other eps William Waring directed besides Chimera?

Sally

Waring, William
* "Meridian"
* "Prophecy"

according to:
http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/directors.shtml

[majorsal]

Certainly agree with the cheap plot device thing, I thought it was pretty obvious that the episode was written to break the BWC with a "meaningful" boyfriend and they needed to find an excuse to tell him about the SGC.

Here's a question in general. Why did they 'need' an excuse to tell PS about the program when Sam was already in a successful relationship with him? The only reason it was a prob for PS was that it was 'written' that way. They were 'having' a relationship, so why throw in the prob of PS wanting to know and Sam having guilt because she had to hold back? That's another puzzle of Chimera. There really was no need to bring this into the equation, because it looked like they were doing just fine without this 'I want to know what you do, Sam' and 'I can't tell you, Pete' stuff. I'm actually glad they wrote it that way because it makes it more obvious that Sam's going to want to dump him. Well that, and her undying love for Jack.

Sally

[majorsal]

Waring, William
* "Meridian"
* "Prophecy"

according to:
http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/directors.shtml

Those were good eps! What went wrong, then, when he directed Chimera? I mean, plot-hole wise... the holes literally swallowed the ep.

Sally

[bcmilco]

*shrugs* I'm not sure you can blame the director too much, all he's doing is filming what others write. If there are BIG GAPPING plot holes I'd think they would belong to the writers... That is their job after all... making sure the story is reasonable and sound.

The director just gets the story on film the best way he knows how.

[stargate barbie]

i was actually beginning to worry about myself for not disliking the guy, but he gradually became more weird, obsessive, annoying and then he walked out in a little hissy fit right after they slept together and i really did not like him. moment of worry over!
the more i think about the guy and THAT episode the more stressed i get.

and i think the ep was directed pretty well. my problem is that it got made in the first place. having said that it would have been an entirely different episode if someone had confronted him about his behaviour and if sam had dumped the chump at the end.

[keshou]

Here's a question in general. Why did they 'need' an excuse to tell PS about the program when Sam was already in a successful relationship with him? The only reason it was a prob for PS was that it was 'written' that way. They were 'having' a relationship, so why throw in the prob of PS wanting to know and Sam having guilt because she had to hold back? That's another puzzle of Chimera. Sally

It was written that way, you're right. Pete was the inquisitive, detective sort and that pushed the matter to the forefront of the story.

But I also think Sam isn't the type who could have a meaningful, lasting relationship with someone if she had to lie to them about her job, her life all the time. And let's face it the SGC isn't just a job to Sam like it may be to other personnel assigned to the mountain. It's really been her life for the last 7 years and she goes off-world on dangerous missions all the time, has to spend nights and weekends at the SGC on occasion. That's a whopper of a cover she has, btw, "deep-space telemetry"?? What significant other, even someone not as inquisitive as Pete, is going to believe that for long?? That's part of the attraction of Jack, I think, is that he's someone who understands her life.

When the writers first developed the black-widow carter episode they may have originally been planning to have Sam and Pete break up at the end of the episode, because Sam realized the relationship wouldn't work if she couldn't tell Pete about her job. The boyfriend lives but goes away. That would lead into Lost City which was long rumored to be shippy for S/J

Instead they got picked up for an 8th season and they may have decided to keep Pete around. "Hey, that will be good for Sam's character development to have a life outside the SGC and provide another way to delay any resolution for S/J. Voila, let's write the story so Pete *has* to be told about the SGC, that's a neat twist, we haven't done *that* before! "

Of course they could have made it easy on themselves and just switched Pete out for Agent Barrett. He already knew about her life and they had some nice chemistry. I liked Pete (not sure what I'm doing in the anti-Pete thread ) but I can see Agent Barrett being a logical choice as Sam's boyfriend. He could have even been involved in trying to catch Osiris which would have been a nice way to bring him in.

[keshou]

*shrugs* I'm not sure you can blame the director too much, all he's doing is filming what others write. If there are BIG GAPPING plot holes I'd think they would belong to the writers... That is their job after all... making sure the story is reasonable and sound.

The director just gets the story on film the best way he knows how.

Agreed, not the director's job. I've even heard Martin Wood refer to plot holes when he's doing the DVD commentaries; you can tell he has problems making sense of things sometimes. Listen to the DVD commentary for "Full Circle" - Martin Wood mentioned a couple of things in the script that just didn't work for him.

[bcmilco]

When the writers first developed the black-widow carter episode they may have originally been planning to have Sam and Pete break up at the end of the episode, because Sam realized the relationship wouldn't work if she couldn't tell Pete about her job. The boyfriend lives but goes away. That would lead into Lost City which was long rumored to be shippy for S/J

Instead they got picked up for an 8th season and they may have decided to keep Pete around. "Hey, that will be good for Sam's character development to have a life outside the SGC and provide another way to delay any resolution for S/J. Voila, let's write the story so Pete *has* to be told about the SGC, that's a neat twist, we haven't done *that* before! "

You know, that's the most logical explination for the whole fiasco that was Chimera, that I've ever heard. It also explains why they didn't end with Daniel/Osiris and instead tacted on a Sam/Pete ending... It also explains why they were kissy-face when IMO Sam should have/would have been questioning him for his actions...

Of course they could have made it easy on themselves and just switched Pete out for Agent Barrett. He already knew about her life and they had some nice chemistry. I liked Pete (not sure what I'm doing in the anti-Pete thread ) but I can see Agent Barrett being a logical choice as Sam's boyfriend. He could have even been involved in trying to catch Osiris which would have been a nice way to bring him in.

Not only would it have been a more logical choice, but they wouldn't have needed to make up a reason to get him to the "crime scene" he could have already been there with the team on the stake out.

The whole second half of that episode was either very poorly written or they have ulterior motives that we'll find out about in s8... right now I'm leaning towards poorly written

[Skydiver]

chimera seems to me like two stories crammed together to make a whole eps. they wanted to deal with sarah/osiris, and i guess they decided to break danny's 'goaulded girlfriend' tradition by rescuing her, and wanted to break sam's 'black widow curse' by having a boyfriend of hers live and they tossed them together tomake a whole episode because neither of the sub plots would have worked either separately or in with anything else they had online.

unfortunately, it made both stories seem cheap. danny/osiris was rather anti-climactic. Osiris is allied with anubis, and presumably knows some of his plans, yet there is no mention of 'hey, let's find out what she knows' (and i can't recall, was the reason for her rescue simply to save sarah or osiris?)

Pete....pete was just a plot device. Now if things change in s8, it may be more of one, but right now, Sarah is a plot device as well. she was the complication that gets sam to tell pete.

If both of these characters are dealt with later, then it may 'justify' this episode, as in making it part of the overall arc, but right now....eh, it was a way to accomplish two goals, BWC and freeing Osiris, but other than that, it's just a simple closing of plot threads instead of continuing them

[prion]

From Skydiver.... I]chimera seems to me like two stories crammed together to make a whole eps. they wanted to deal with sarah/osiris, and i guess they decided to break danny's 'goaulded girlfriend' tradition by rescuing her, and wanted to break sam's 'black widow curse' by having a boyfriend of hers live and they tossed them together tomake a whole episode because neither of the sub plots would have worked either separately or in with anything else they had online.

unfortunately, it made both stories seem cheap. [/I]

I agree on that. The writers decided to do an A and B story, both of which were too similar - love interests, and I'm annoyed, but not surprised at all, that TPTB have simply ignored Sarah after this episode. I would suspect the woman would have had a nervous breakdown from all she went through, and is locked up in that nice little padded room with all the nooks and crannies that Daniel had in "Legacy."

As for Pete's actions of checking up on Sam - it's not unheard of, and when some friends and I were discussing it, they thought wow, if only they COULD check up on propsective dates like that. One of my friend's mothers, back in WWII, did precisely that before she decided to seriously date her future husband.

As for Pete following her, well, it was odd, but that's the writers wanted. It also conveniently gets her to tell him about the whole project. The end on that episode was just bad writing all around, for both characters. Lack of followup.

What it boils down is that NONE of the main characters are going to have a permanent love interest. Face if, if any of them fall in the sack with another person, that person is either a) killed, b) Gou'alded, or c) gives them some nanobyte disease. It's just the way episodic television is, especially in episode series that are not designed as dramas/soaps. Stargate is scifi/action-adventure.