David DeLuise Returns

[Webbgirl]

I guess I'm just a little confused as to WHICH eps she went overboard this season. Got any examples?

I'm not Dani, but I'll give this one a shot...

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We had 'Grace' which was an entire episode dedicated to her emotions. Evo 2 and Heroes 2 where instead of showing concern for an endangered or fallen comrade, her emotions are all focused at Jack. TLC 2, where presumably she's still dating one man but shows up at her CO's hous after driving around all night thinking about him. And she attempts, not once but twice to declare feelings for him.

I'm pretty sure there are others, but those are off the top of my head.

[Elmindreda]

Season 7 spoiler space (Grace, Evo2, Heroes2)
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We had 'Grace' which was an entire episode dedicated to her emotions. Evo 2 and Heroes 2 where instead of showing concern for an endangered or fallen comrade, her emotions are all focused at Jack.

<snip>

New here, but wanted to respond to this. In Heroes 2, I don't think Sam's emotions were "Jack focused" at all. I think she was grieving over losing Janet, possibly her best friend, and needed someone to give her comfort. Since Sam was understandably concerned about the health of another friend, Jack, it was Jack she went to for comfort. Even as a shipper, the tears I saw from Sam when she talked to Jack were tears for Janet's sake, not for Jack's. I think it's the most natural thing in the world to want to be hugged and comforted when we lose a loved one, and I think it's perfectly normal and right that she told him she was glad he was okay. I took it to mean, "I've already lost my best friend, and I'm on the verge of a nervous break-down; if I lost anyone else right now I'd tumble right over that verge into insanity."

As much as I loved seeing the Sam'n'Jack hug (as a shipper), I think that the exact same scene would have played out if Daniel had been the one injured, and I would have gotten the exact same feelings and message from the scene.

Just MHO.

[Webbgirl]

Season 7 spoiler space (Grace, Evo2, Heroes2)
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New here, but wanted to respond to this. In Heroes 2, I don't think Sam's emotions were "Jack focused" at all. I think she was grieving over losing Janet, possibly her best friend, and needed someone to give her comfort. Since Sam was understandably concerned about the health of another friend, Jack, it was Jack she went to for comfort. Even as a shipper, the tears I saw from Sam when she talked to Jack were tears for Janet's sake, not for Jack's. I think it's the most natural thing in the world to want to be hugged and comforted when we lose a loved one, and I think it's perfectly normal and right that she told him she was glad he was okay. I took it to mean, "I've already lost my best friend, and I'm on the verge of a nervous break-down; if I lost anyone else right now I'd tumble right over that verge into insanity."

As much as I loved seeing the Sam'n'Jack hug (as a shipper), I think that the exact same scene would have played out if Daniel had been the one injured, and I would have gotten the exact same feelings and message from the scene.

Just MHO.

I think I would have been more inclined to see it that way if they had actually talked about losing Janet in that scene. I believe the only line was about Cassie 'being tough'.

Aside from that, I would have liked to have seen the scene with Daniel. It would have removed the cloud of the motivation behind the hug. Plus, given the fact that Daniel was the one who actually watched his friend die, I'm thinking he might have needed as much comforting as Sam. Apparently TPTB disagreed since Sam gets hugs from Jack and Teal'c and Daniel gets...squat. I think I wouldn't have had as big of a problem if TPTB had been able to be a bit more even handed with the relationships through the season.

[Dani347]

Season 7 spoiler space (Grace, Evo2, Heroes2)
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I think I would have been more inclined to see it that way if they had actually talked about losing Janet in that scene. I believe the only line was about Cassie 'being tough'.

Yes, this is one example. And, Webbgirl did a good job of saying what my objections to Sam's emotions are in her earlier post. To dismiss Cassie's pain (whether the word was tough or strong or brick hard it still came off to me like dismissing her) and focusing it all on "I feel bad, comfort me" just gave me a bad taste thinking of Sam. And, they didn't need Cassie in the scene to show Sam feeling bad about Cassie losing again her mother. Jack could have asked, Sam could have replied, "It's hard for her. I don't see how she'll handle it." Then, Jack could have said, "Well, we'll all be there for her to help her get through it. And, how are you doing?" It would allow both Sam and Jack to show concern for Cassie, who really deserved the brunt of it, and Jack could still have shown concern for Sam for losing her friend, and neither would have come off as selfish to me. And, since Webbgirl has already mentioned Daniel, I won't go into that, just to say I concur.

[the dancer of spaz]

Aside from that, I would have liked to have seen the scene with Daniel. It would have removed the cloud of the motivation behind the hug. Plus, given the fact that Daniel was the one who actually watched his friend die, I'm thinking he might have needed as much comforting as Sam. Apparently TPTB disagreed since Sam gets hugs from Jack and Teal'c and Daniel gets...squat. I think I wouldn't have had as big of a problem if TPTB had been able to be a bit more even handed with the relationships through the season.

Daniel and Jack have hugged in the past - and have been way more inclined to hug than Sam and Jack in the past, as well (Even when Season Four - The Season of Ship exploded). The Pre-ascension Daniel and Jack relationship was WAY, WAY, WAY more relaxed than it has been this season. I don't know why that is. Some fic writers (so I'm assuming some fans) have addressed that by saying that Daniel is not quite as comfortable with the group/team as he once was, you know, with all of the memories that he doesn't quite have of being ascended, and all of the memories he doesn't quite have of being ALIVE.

I don't know, it makes sense in a way. Fortunately, we have had some good Daniel + individual team moments this season (Daniel and Sam in "Space Race;" Daniel and Jack in "Fallen," "Lifeboat," and "Evolution: Part Two;" and Daniel and Teal'c in "Orpheus," among others I can't remember). Besides that, Daniel has seemed kind of out of sorts. Hopefully he'll have recovered for next season.

Either way, my point is that people are ULTRA sensitive to ANY emotions that are expressed between Sam and Jack, whether it is friendship friendly or otherwise, because TPTB have only seemed to try to push either military relationship or ROMANCE between the two. I don't know why, but it makes it very difficult for people, who don't want Sam and Jack together, to enjoy any scenes with Sam and Jack, because that seems to be all that is displayed. As a shipper, I can decipher between friendship and romance with no problem, but... I know it's difficult nowadays.

Season 7 spoiler space (Grace, Evo2, Heroes2)
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...To dismiss Cassie's pain (whether the word was tough or strong or brick hard it still came off to me like dismissing her) and focusing it all on "I feel bad, comfort me" just gave me a bad taste thinking of Sam. And, they didn't need Cassie in the scene to show Sam feeling bad about Cassie losing again her mother. Jack could have asked, Sam could have replied, "It's hard for her. I don't see how she'll handle it." Then, Jack could have said, "Well, we'll all be there for her to help her get through it. And, how are you doing?" It would allow both Sam and Jack to show concern for Cassie, who really deserved the brunt of it, and Jack could still have shown concern for Sam for losing her friend, and neither would have come off as selfish to me. And, since Webbgirl has already mentioned Daniel, I won't go into that, just to say I concur.

I can totally appreciate your feelings, considering how Cassie was taken care of in that ep. She lost her second mother, and it's a horrible experience. I was very disappointed with them for not even SHOWING Cassie, and I will continue to be disappointed if they talk about her NEXT SEASON like it's still Season Three or something. Her mother has died, for crying out loud, they should have had a scene with her and one or all of SG-1. It sucks.

But, that aside, I can also appreciate your reaction to how Sam answered his question. Both seemed to just brush it off, and again (and this is very unlike me) I have to blame TPTB for that. I guess they just wanted to have one last shippy dig for the shippers involved (something that I appreciated as a shipper, but didn't quite like as a general fan!). It didn't come off as COMPLETELY selfish for me, as they didn't even SHOW Cassie at the memorial service. She wasn't even standing next to Daniel, Jack, and Teal'c when Sam was doing her thang. Nothing. Not a scene. Because of this, I can understand the way they addressed Cassie's feelings. And also, because of this, I can now deal with it through various fanfiction stories that have been floating around lately. I'd really like to see her in Season Eight, though, because, though she's an adult now, she SHOULD be relying on SG-1, etc. It'd be good to see her relationship with each character again.

[Odens återkomst]

I wish he'd gotten killed by Osiris in Chimera.

[Pagan Twylight]

I liked Pete... for a little light relief...but to have a relationship between him and Sam on-going just doesn't cut it. But then I feel the same about the Jack/Sam ship, too. Either of them (Jack or Pete) would probably be great sex for her but when the morning comes either of them would bore her to death in a week. Sam needs someone like Martouf, Narim or Daniel.....someone she can talk to but who is still a peice of eye-candy, too. Just my opinion....which won't buy a thing and means nothing in the scheme of things. ... :-)

[ShadowMaat]

I wish he'd gotten killed by Osiris in Chimera.

I wish Daniel had gotten killed by Osiris in Chimera.

Doesn't sound very nice, does it? I think that wishing death on fictional characters is sad and disturbing. Grow up, people.

[the dancer of spaz]

I wish Daniel had gotten killed by Osiris in Chimera.

Doesn't sound very nice, does it? I think that wishing death on fictional characters is sad and disturbing. Grow up, people.

Man...

Wishing death on fictional characters - especially subordinate characters - is about as "sad and disturbing" as being "embarassed by" and "embarassed for" a main character. Both emotions, one of hatred or malice or whatever, and the other of annoyance, disappointment, and embarassment are elicited from a significant attachment to the show and the characters therin.

I know you and I don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things, Shadow, but I'm a bit offended by that statement, because you're assuming that Pete is more important than Daniel (or any other character, for that matter) simply because you like him more than other people do.

The thread isn't called "Let's sympathize with Poor Pete Shanahan and David DeLuise."

Just because people don't like a character, it doesn't mean they should "grow up" or anything; it's their opinions. Remember?

[Dani347]

I don't think it's that Pete is more important, but that Shadow was illustrating that anyone could wish any character dead, and their fans wouldn't like it. Like, "You say you want Pete dead, but think how you'd feel if someone said the same thing about a character you like? Doesn't feel so good, huh?"

Given that, I'm not sure I agree in the abstract that wishing death on a fictional character is all that horrible. (I do like Pete, btw, and don't wish death on him). I think the fact that they are fictional, and nothing will really happen to the actor playing them makes it less horrible. It's certainly less horrible than wishing death on a real person! Of course, I say in the abstract, because if someone seriously wiahed Daniel would get killed, I wouldn't like it one bit. But, taking a non biased view, I'd have to say it's not that horrible.

[the_fours]

I know you and I don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things, Shadow, but I'm a bit offended by that statement, because you're assuming that Pete is more important than Daniel (or any other character, for that matter) simply because you like him more than other people do.

i think shadow was emphisising the fact that it is hurtful and offensive to the fans of the character.

Just because people don't like a character, it doesn't mean they should "grow up" or anything; it's their opinions. Remember?

yes, it is their opinion but wishing anyone dead fictional or otherwise is slightly disturbing in my view because in my opinion wishing someone dead is just as bad as doing the deed(im a man with high morals )
shadow is right it is disturbing when people wish for others to be dead and i dont think those kind of highly offensive posts should be on the forum.

[ShadowMaat]

Thanks for clarifying for me, guys. Yes, my point wasn't that I hate Daniel (I don't), but that wishing death on a character is childish and creepy and it looks a heck of a lot different when someone is wishing it on a character you like, so maybe folks should stop and THINK for once and consider how they might feel if someone said they wished a character YOU (general you) liked should die.

Dani, I get what you're saying about fictional not being bad, but I still think it's kinda sick, mostly because it's a fictional character. I mean, bad enough to hate a real person that much, but a fictional character doesn't even exist and yet you want that someone to DIE?? It's a level of negative obsession that I don't find particularly healthy and which makes me personally uncomfortable to be around. I posted more on the subject earlier in this thread, and I still feel that way. Just because someone is fictional does not give you the right to treat that person like a sack of dirt or a bug to be crushed. If I wished death and violence on Daniel or Jack or any of the other main characters, I'd probably be flamed right off the board, but if it gets said about Pete or any other "unpopular" character, that makes it OK?? I don't think so.

It's sick and it IS hurtful and just because it's about a fictional character doesn't mean that the actor who plays that character won't be upset to see such comments. And just because it's someone's "opinion" doessn't make it OK. If it was my opinion that Jack should have holes drilled in his head to see if it'd let in any intelligence, or that Sam can't possibly lead the team because she's a woman, that's neither kind nor productive and it would say more about ME than about the characters in question.

I'm with fours. Comments of that intensely hostile nature should be modded right off the board... or at least relegated to the "protected" threads where general viewers are less likely to see them.

[Dani347]

, but a fictional character doesn't even exist and yet you want that someone to DIE??

Maybe because I don't see it as someone literally wanting anyone to die, but just using extreme language to say, "I hate this character, and I don't want them on the show." Sort of like on the flipside, if I said I wanted to marry a character and have his babies. I'm not really entertaining an idea of having a fictional character's baby, I'm just saying he's a character I really really like.

But, anyway, for me, the fact that the characters are fictional means I don't think any attitude is horrible. I'd feel shocked and think it were sick if it were a real person. I would think the actors, after a knee jerk feeling of hurt. would assess that it's not them that anyone hates or wishes dead, but a persona, that they (hopefully) drop when they leave work.

Even though I disagree that it's sick, I do agree that it's a double standard to say things like that about Pete or any other secondary and/or unpopular characters and then get up in arms if someone says it about a regular character.

I won't wish the death on a character. But, what about a goa'uld?

[ShadowMaat]

I won't wish the death on a character. But, what about a goa'uld?

Dead goa'uld aren't much fun.

[Dani347]

Dead goa'uld aren't much fun.

True.