David DeLuise Returns

[Hawkeye]

IS THE SPOILER INFO A JOKE? I have read the description for the opening ep for S8 several times -- cannot believe TPTB will allow the magnificent TLC 1&2 to be "paid off" with something as lame as Carter being tortured by images of ... Pete?! ... in Montana?! Is "Atlantis" sucking up all of MGM's focus and money so SG-1 is now on autopilot and about to run out of fuel?!

[Teal'c]

If you're putting all your energy into hating a fictional television character, to the extend that you wish he was dead and actually makes you uncomfortable to see him/think about him/hear others like him, then there is something severly wrong with you (You being several people in this thread)

Pete is a nice guy, he was just took his curiosity over the top (For god sake was going out with a woman who worked strange hours and could disapear for days at a time! )

[tera'ngan]

Well, I have to say that I am looking forward to the plot of the first episode (forgot the title already) where Fifth plays mindgames with Sam and pretends to be Pete. In that context, I'm actually looking forward to the Pete character coming back. Sounds like some interesting mind-twisting type stuff, as long as it is written the right way. The interplay between those three characters could be very well played and entertaining in a dramatic sort of way.
As for Sam staying with Pete, I'd have to say no thanks. Even if the "stalking" thing didn't bug me (which it does), I felt the character had some serious maturity issues; not only was he was manipulative, he was very controlling. I thought it was very interesting from the interviews that I have read from both Amanda and David, that the character was neither written nor played with that intent, and yet a lot of people interpreted him like that.
One night Sam says "no," so the next night he buys her roses and takes her dancing so she'll say "yes?" Then she says "yes" and the next morning when she doesn't tell him something he wants to know he throws a tantrum, tries to make her feel guilty (for doing the right thing) and then pouts? And it just goes downhill from there. Would you date someone who did stuff like that? Ever know anyone in RL who has? I'll bet they were miserable and your advice to them was to get out of that one as soon as possible.
To all the anti-shippers out there, I would say yes, I'd love to see Sam happy. But I don't see the "happy" here. Just because his name isn't "Jack" doesn't mean it's automatically a good thing. Personally, I think Pete came along right after she had her "Grace" realization and she went for it without thinking too much and he was in the right place at the right time and just got lucky.
Which is really too bad - 'cause I love all the DeLuise boys

-tera'ngan

[epiphany]

All that interrupting the stake out means is he made a mistake, he had a moment of bad judgment(who knows he may have felt so guilty he felt he had to immeidately confess). And let's face it he suffered far more than anyone else for that error, he was seriously wounded.

But that isn't why people are "mad" at him and "hate him" and want him pushed into an opening wormhole--they aren't calling him a "stalker" and saying he's controlling abuser waiting to happen because he chose a bad time to interrupt a stakeout. They are saying it because "he lied to her and he hasn't told her", because "he stalked her", because "Poor Sam just doesn't know what a creep he really is", etc, etc.

And I'm saying going by the end of Chimera, I'D have to assume that Sam did in fact know exactly what Pete did and had most likely thought about it and possibly even talked to Pete about it(one of those "off-screen" things the rest of us are told is where moments we think need to be show happen). It makes Sam and the whole SGC look like utter idiots to try and claim "Oh Sam didn't know and now when she finds, she'll send Pete packing" considering the rest of episode, such as the file which would have been flagged or most importantly that Pete was even anywhere near her stakeout and walking to the van door at that inopportune moment. That could only happen if he'd followed her or in some other manner been informed of her whereabouts.

[bcmilco]

Let me state up front, and make it 100%, crystal clear, that I don't hate Pete, I just don't like him, or the way he was writen.

If, as many articles seem to indicate, Pete was supposed to be written as a nice guy then they should have been a lot more careful about the plot holes they introduced into the episode that make him look less then "good" IMO.

I shouldn't needed someone to come along and TELL me he was a good and nice guy. I should have been able to see that in both halves of the episode, but because of the crappy writing for the second half of the episode he came across, to me, as having some less than desirable traits. Traits that IMO are not conducive to a healthy and long-lasting relationship, nor were they traits that the Sam Carter, I thought I knew, would accept from anyone. So if this character has me a little... upset it's because I feel like they've forced a square peg into a round hole and expect us to be happy about it.

[bcmilco]

All that interrupting the stake out means is he made a mistake, he had a moment of bad judgment(who knows he may have felt so guilty he felt he had to immeidately confess). And let's face it he suffered far more than anyone else for that error, he was seriously wounded.

I don't buy that for one reason in particular. That being that he was there all night if he was feeling that guilty why didn't he tell her when he pulled out his binocs. or when he first arrived at the stake-out. It's poor writing, just to get him to a place where he could break the "Black Widow Curse" which I've always thought to be the biggest joke around, and not worthy of TV time. However they could have worked it in, in such a way that didn't make him look so bad if they had done it differently.

And I'm saying going by the end of Chimera, I'D have to assume that Sam did in fact know exactly what Pete did and had most likely thought about it and possibly even talked to Pete about it(one of those "off-screen" things the rest of us are told is where moments we think need to be show happen).

And like all the people who are told that I'm saying "show it", if the SGC knew I want to know they knew. Otherwise I don't buy it.

I find it hard to believe that Jack would let anyone follow him onto a top secret mission, because that person becomes an unkown in the situation, a liablity.

And yet when Pete does get involved we have no reaction from Jack. If Jack knew ahead of time they should have showed us so we knew he knew, or at the least told us after the fact, but they didn't. Sloppy writing.

It makes Sam and the whole SGC look like utter idiots to try and claim "Oh Sam didn't know and now when she finds, she'll send Pete packing" considering the rest of episode, such as the file which would have been flagged or most importantly that Pete was even anywhere near her stakeout and walking to the van door at that inopportune moment. That could only happen if he'd followed her or in some other manner been informed of her whereabouts.

I agree it does make the SGC look like utter idiots, but it also makes them look like utter idiots for not pulling Pete aside, when that never-seen file got flaged, and asking him "what do you think you're doing? You're in way over your head, back off, this is a matter of national security." At the time the folder got flagged they should have done that, but they didn't.

So either way the SGC look like idiots IMO. It's sloppy, sloppy writing.

[epiphany]

Traits that IMO are not conducive to a healthy and long-lasting relationship, nor were they traits that the Sam Carter, I thought I knew, would accept from anyone. So if this character has me a little... upset it's because I feel like they've forced a square peg into a round hole and expect us to be happy about it.

Yeah plenty of us have been feeling that way a long time about how the show has been written. I'd say that is pretty much how a good many of us have felt about Sam n' Jack, about how Teal'c and Daniel have been written(or not written as the case may be), about how the characters have been made to behave because the writers have some "kewl" idea for a plot, who cares how they have to twist the characterizations to make it work. So welcome to the club.

[epiphany]

I don't buy that for one reason in particular. That being that he was there all night if he was feeling that guilty why didn't he tell her when he pulled out his binocs. or when he first arrived at the stake-out. It's poor writing, just to get him to a place where he could break the "Black Widow Curse" which I've always thought to be the biggest joke around, and not worthy of TV time. However they could have worked it in, in such a way that didn't make him look so bad if they had done it differently.


And like all the people who are told that I'm saying "show it", if the SGC knew I want to know they knew. Otherwise I don't buy it.First off I wasn't saying he was feeling guilty, I was just saying that it was just as likely a reason as because he was lying creep trying to control Sam's life.

I find it hard to believe that Jack would let anyone follow him onto a top secret mission, because that person becomes an unkown in the situation, a liablity. And yet when Pete does get involved we have no reaction from Jack. If Jack knew ahead of time they should have showed us so we knew he knew, or at the least told us after the fact, but they didn't. Sloppy writing.

How would Jack have known Pete was following him? BY THE TIME Sam talked to Pete at the end of the episode, not before that. The SGC would have known and Sam would have known all this by the time we saw the scene in the infirmary where she tells him about the Stargate.

I agree it does make the SGC look like utter idiots, but it also makes them look like utter idiots for not pulling Pete aside, when that never-seen file got flaged, and asking him "what do you think you're doing? You're in way over your head, back off, this is a matter of national security." At the time the folder got flagged they should have done that, but they didn't.
So either way the SGC look like idiots IMO. It's sloppy, sloppy writing

How could they, they would't have put it all together until AFTER the fact. All that stuff happened within a 24 hour period(from the file being looked at to Pete getting injured).

But they, and Sam, definitely would have known by the scene in the infirmary and by then Pete had seen some stuff that seemed fairly inexplicable. Which means they weight their options, did a background and security check on Pete and decided he could be brought in on the secret.

However I do think the writing was sloppy but the writing lately usually is. They seem to like to leave plotholes big enough to drive a truck through.

[ShadowMaat]

And like all the people who are told that I'm saying "show it", if the SGC knew I want to know they knew. Otherwise I don't buy it.

Well, I didn't find it particularly believable that Daniel was miraculously able to remember everything in the blink of an eye and I thought it was incredily lazy, shoddy writing to have it all happen "off screen", but it did.

This is another case where TPTB let us "assume" that these important plot points are occurring... we just don't get to see it.

There are MUCH better ways to have handled the Pete character and still have him get involved with the action/be told what's happening. SaharaGate provided a good example. Even if they'd kept the scene exactly the same and just used the one bit with the computer... it wouldn't have taken up any more time than the whole "checking up" scenario and it would have Painted a MUCH nicer pic of Pete.

The fact that the writers chose to do thing the way they did says that they either lack imagination, they lack any sensitivity and assume folks won't mind what Pete did, or that it was completely intentional and they really ARE trying to paint him as, to quote Joe Mallozzi, "the cloying new boyfriend." None of those options are particularly pleasant, but... well, you all know how I feel about that.

[bcmilco]

How could they, they would't have put it all together until AFTER the fact. All that stuff happened within a 24 hour period(from the file being looked at to Pete getting injured).

Okay I was under the impression it was more like 48 hours, but it's been a while since I've seen it so I'll take your word on it.

But they, and Sam, definitely would have known by the scene in the infirmary and by then Pete had seen some stuff that seemed fairly inexplicable. Which means they weight their options, did a background and security check on Pete and decided he could be brought in on the secret.

The whole 'lets tell Pete' thing bugs me too. Steven Raynord(sp) from "The Curse" saw basically the same thing (glowing eyes, a hand-device in operation) and acording to Daniel they told him a cover story. Or Catherine from "Torment of Tantalus", she already knew about the progarm and yet they wouldn't tell her that they had re-started the program. I would have like to have seen/heard their reasons for telling Pete when they didn't tell these two people.

Oh, I can rationalize the whole 'tell Pete' thing with: now he's bound by confidentiality and if he talks he's a traitor, etc etc, but I should have to when all it would take is one scene to explain most of this stuff away.

[bcmilco]

Well, I didn't find it particularly believable that Daniel was miraculously able to remember everything in the blink of an eye and I thought it was incredily lazy, shoddy writing to have it all happen "off screen", but it did.

This is another case where TPTB let us "assume" that these important plot points are occurring... we just don't get to see it.

Daniel's "off-screen" remembering didn't bother me as much and I think that has to do with the fact that I already knew what he was going to be remembering, I wouldn't have minded seeing him remembering a few of the more important moments but because I know the character I can guess how he'll respond. Where as Pete is a new character I don't really know what his motives are, and by what they gave us in the second half of the episode it became even more unclear to me. So for Pete what they left out changes my preception of his character, where as leaving out some of Daniel's remembering doesn't change the fact that I like him.

There are MUCH better ways to have handled the Pete character and still have him get involved with the action/be told what's happening. SaharaGate provided a good example. Even if they'd kept the scene exactly the same and just used the one bit with the computer... it wouldn't have taken up any more time than the whole "checking up" scenario and it would have Painted a MUCH nicer pic of Pete.

Yes, thank you for understanding.

The fact that the writers chose to do thing the way they did says that they either lack imagination, they lack any sensitivity and assume folks won't mind what Pete did, or that it was completely intentional and they really ARE trying to paint him as, to quote Joe Mallozzi, "the cloying new boyfriend." None of those options are particularly pleasant, but... well, you all know how I feel about that.

I think they were trying to go with "The nice guy, who Sam will decide isn't for her", and that's the route I'd like to see it go, but right now it looks a lot more like "the cloying bf" to me.

[ShadowMaat]

So for Pete what they left out changes my preception of his character, where as leaving out some of Daniel's remembering doesn't change the fact that I like him.

Ah, but I was furious about the omission regarding Daniel and I ended up finding him less believable/likeable because of that glossing over. Not Daniel's fault, I know, it's TPTB, but it's one of the biggest grievances I have with the past season and it's because of their failure to act on this opportunity- as well as their general habit of smoothing over inconvenient "lumps" by having them take place offscreen- that left me as disgusted with the show as I currently am.

The lack of follow-up on what Pete did didn't bother me as much. Partly because I don't think it was as criminal as a lot of people seem to think it was and also because, by that point, it was exactly the sort of sloppy storytelling I'd come to expect from TPTB. See? I CAN lower my standards!

Sad to say, but at this point nothing will convince me that TPTB's intentions were/are honorable where Pete is concerned. I'm gonna cut myself off right there before I become too overly critical of them. Just know that I'm thinking really negative thoughts.

[bcmilco]

Just know that I'm thinking really negative thoughts.

I never doubted it

[ses110]

I think the bottom line is if TPTB did not want Sam and Jack together that's fine.TPTB should have done one or two things.

1) TPTB should never have written any Shippy episodes between Sam and Jack

2) TPTB should have stopped the ship after Season 1 or 2.I would not have liked it but I could have accepted it and moved on since it was still early in the show.

We are now in Season 8 and it is too late to stop the Sam and Jack Ship.It is not realistic to expect the Shippers to sit by and not complain after TPTB created and pushed the Ship between Sam and Jack.I have no problem with David Deluise but I Find it hard to accept Pete's actions in Chimera.

[prion]

[QUOTE=Malinne]Do TPTB have any clue how many people (Yes...shippers)are leaving the Stargate fandom? Having been burned in the past by series, whose producers have capitalized on the ratings by playing off the relationships, only to dump them as the series drew to a close, shippers see the writing on the wall with the return of Pete. Frankly, they aren't taking it anymore. They are leaving the series.
QUOTE]

Shippers leaving fandom? Judging from the volume of posts here and on a S/J ship list, I don't think so. The show isn't about 'ship'. it's about action/adventure/drama and going through the gate, not who kisses who. The producers frankly don't care about fan factions and write what they want to, or what they're told to write by the folks who hold the money. Since Scifi wants the 18-49 male demographic, writing 'ship' isn't going to draw in the guys.