Fanfic Pet Peeves

[SF_and_Coffee]

Then you are not a new writer. I was addressing new writers who may read this thread and feel discouraged. I know when I started writing (again, since I wrote a great deal as a girl, but math degrees do not lend themselves to writing), I received a great deal of encouragement. I look back and see all the mistakes and I am very grateful that my mentors did not slam me for each and every one but instead looked beyond the errors to the story.

Actually... I was kidding around about being "in trouble". I know I'm not a new writer. Good grief, I've been writing science fiction off and on for over thirty years.

A year ago, I was limiting myself to only one bb and I had just written my first SG story. (It's a crossover with Highlander.) My first writing attempts were in group stories which gave me models to emulate.

Are there chain/group stories here?

I don't know about that, so much, but there are some of us trying to write in shared universes, or to intersect the universes we are writing in.

[Feast of the Muse]

<snip> I received a great deal of encouragement. I look back and see all the mistakes and I am very grateful that my mentors did not slam me for each and every one but instead looked beyond the errors to the story.

I consider myself just past new, only because I wrote a lot when I was younger. I still have a great deal of the papers I wrote in all my grades (1-12) and I looked back over them recently. There was one science paper in particular that I read over, and I couldn't believe the simple errors I made, like its instead of it's. Instead of marking all over the little errors (in our school, you could get marks off for spelling and grammar no matter the subject) the teacher focused instead on the story I had made up about the martian who was telling us about his home planet. I didn't get a perfect score, but since I got all my facts right, I did get a high mark, along with a note on the paper telling me that I was a good storyteller and to keep up the good work.

Over the years, I have become more refined and particular about what I write on my own. Having the encouragement to keep going was the biggest thing for me. I actually do very well with constructive criticism, but I know that not everyone does. I want to know how to do things correctly a lot more than I care if I'm right.

Anyway, I am all for the encouragement. If you bark enough at a creative person, they will either stay away from you or just start bottling the ideas completely. I'd rather praise what they're doing right and then make small suggestions on improvement. If they care about honing their craft they'll eat up the suggestions and ask for more - I know I do.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I was fortunate to receive encouragement as well. I began writing science fiction in any serious sort of fashion around the age of thirteen, and my parents and teachers were very pleased with my work. I think that's what enabled me to stick with it to any extent whatsoever, although there have been times when I have gone for long periods without writing, simply because one thing or another was sapping my energy or blocking my creativity. That isn't the case lately, and I can only hope that I can continue.

[Whytewytch]

Then you are not a new writer. I was addressing new writers who may read this thread and feel discouraged. I know when I started writing (again, since I wrote a great deal as a girl, but math degrees do not lend themselves to writing), I received a great deal of encouragement. I look back and see all the mistakes and I am very grateful that my mentors did not slam me for each and every one but instead looked beyond the errors to the story.

ATTN: New Writers! If you have been scared by the last few pages of "you capitalize it/you don't", don't let it worry you. I am a cranky old broad who was once a young writer, too.

Spoiler:

SF_and_Coffee must be, too, as we seem to be sharing a brain. And a life.

Yes, we are a nit-picky bunch, but we are also happy to help if you only ask for it. Will we always have time to beta your fic? No. But we'd be happy to advise you on how to find help. Finding a beta is a process. Be patient. You may be working with this person for some time. I dated a lot of men before I married my hubby. I went through a lot of beta profiles and read many stories by the betas in question before deciding on my first betas. Personally, I love my stories almost like my children--my kids deserve the best I can give them and so do my stories. As mathpiglet said, the story is the main thing--all the rest can be tweaked. And even though it's "only" fan fiction, you should always do your best. Maybe you don't know the rules and that's okay. When I beta, I fix the issue and tell you why it's wrong, but I also praise the good.

Choo1701: 800+ words, 20 pages? Are you missing a digit or did you write it long-hand? O_O Wish I had time to offer my beta services, but RL is keeping me away from the hungry plot bunnies who are over-running my writing garden as it is. Have you checked on LJ or DW or ff.net for betas? PM me if you need help with how to do this.

[SF_and_Coffee]

ATTN: New Writers! If you have been scared by the last few pages of "you capitalize it/you don't", don't let it worry you. I am a cranky old broad who was once a young writer, too.

Spoiler:

SF_and_Coffee must be, too, as we seem to be sharing a brain. And a life.

Hee! I'd say that's an apt description for me.

Yes, we are a nit-picky bunch, but we are also happy to help if you only ask for it. Will we always have time to beta your fic? No. But we'd be happy to advise you on how to find help.

What she said. Always happy to help!

Personally, I love my stories almost like my children--my kids deserve the best I can give them and so do my stories. As mathpiglet said, the story is the main thing--all the rest can be tweaked. And even though it's "only" fan fiction, you should always do your best. Maybe you don't know the rules and that's okay. When I beta, I fix the issue and tell you why it's wrong, but I also praise the good.

Bingo. Same here. The same way my beta readers do with my work.

Choo1701: 800+ words, 20 pages? Are you missing a digit or did you write it long-hand?

Actually, I think Choo also said it's a comic, so that makes some sense. Twenty pages of graphic work, with 800 words of dialogue and/or narration still might be just a bit thin, but admittedly, I've never really checked to see what the average or standard is for comics.

[Whytewytch]

A little OT, but since we seem to be sharing: I also began writing at a very young age--around 10 or 11. My first sci-fi was in a CW class in 9th grade (age 14 or 15). The first time a teacher asked to use my work as an example was the same year, in my general English class. The teacher was a college professor, so I was quite flattered. In college, I pursued an English degree, with a concentration on writing and historical works. After college, RL took over and I also found myself unable to write for one reason/excuse or another for many years. I guess that's why it is so important to me now.

The hard part is, with the internet, we don't know who's on the other end of that story--are they a young teen trying to express themselves or a mom coming back into the fold or even a non-native speaker? Sometimes, we can read it on their profiles or infer it from the info they give but sometimes we are left in the dark. I was lucky. When I was a kid, there was no internet. All my writing was hidden safely away in journals with the exception of school assignments, which only the teachers saw.

ETA: mathpiglet, my first ever story was also part of a novel. Guess I've always had a hard time writing short stories. LOL

[mathpiglet]

Somehow, I have trouble writing short stories. I can never get them short enough.

What's a chain story?

A chain story is a story with several authors. In some, it's all very unorganized with writers just reading the latest post and then adding to it (similar to role play, but you often write the other people's characters as well). In the ones I wrote for, one or two more experienced authors worked on the plot and handed out 'writing assignments' to the other authors. So for example, one of them would tell me that my character would be approached by another Immortal and I would have to write the duel. It was a great way to learn to write short scenes within a bigger work. However, personalities can create problems...

In a few collaborative stories, three of us worked on a story together. We worked on the plot together, wrote it all, polished it and then posted it.

From there I moved onto solo stories.

Actually... I was kidding around about being "in trouble". I know I'm not a new writer. Good grief, I've been writing science fiction off and on for over thirty years.



I don't know about that, so much, but there are some of us trying to write in shared universes, or to intersect the universes we are writing in.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your last statement. Do you mean that your characters might appear in someone else's story? I've had two or three people ask for and use my OC in their stories. That would be an intersection, right?

One thing that might be fun is to have writing challenges. A set topic, a word limit and then discuss the various efforts. I've learned from that as well.

Thank you Feast, SF_and_coffee and WhyteWytch for taking my comments so well. I'm enjoying myself here.

[SF_and_Coffee]

A little OT, but since we seem to be sharing: I also began writing at a very young age--around 10 or 11. My first sci-fi was in a CW class in 9th grade (age 14 or 15). The first time a teacher asked to use my work as an example was the same year, in my general English class. The teacher was a college professor, so I was quite flattered. In college, I pursued an English degree, with a concentration on writing and historical works. After college, RL took over and I also found myself unable to write for one reason/excuse or another for many years. I guess that's why it is so important to me now.

The hard part is, with the internet, we don't know who's on the other end of that story--are they a young teen trying to express themselves or a mom coming back into the fold or even a non-native speaker? Sometimes, we can read it on their profiles or infer it from the info they give but sometimes we are left in the dark. I was lucky. When I was a kid, there was no internet. All my writing was hidden safely away in journals with the exception of school assignments, which only the teachers saw.

You and I are in the same mold, and probably close to the same age. I wrote longhand in notebooks and very little of my writing was read by others, although sometimes I did share it.

I don't really count it as the "serious" beginning of my writing, but I do remember a school assignment in 5th grade, when I was ten years old. We were asked to each write a short story, complete with illustrations, and made up into a book like a children's book. Mine was about two children whose parents were archaeologists working on an excavation in Egypt. The children were with their parents at a site and wandered off, finding themselves in a passageway of some sort that led them to fall through some kind of energy barrier that transported them back to the time of the Pharoahs, where they met a boy their own age who showed them around and then showed them how to get back to their own time and to their parents. I'd say you could call that science fiction, and before anyone says it... yes, I was interested in Egypt as a kid, and the whole thing probably does help explain my love for Stargate, especially the early years of SG-1 and the character of Daniel Jackson.

Beyond that, however, I'd say I was thirteen, or possibly close to it, when I began any sort of serious SF writing. I also wrote some fantasy back then, too, though I'm not so much into fantasy now.

[Whytewytch]

Actually, I think Choo also said it's a comic, so that makes some sense. Twenty pages of graphic work, with 800 words of dialogue and/or narration still might be just a bit thin, but admittedly, I've never really checked to see what the average or standard is for comics.

THAT explains it. Choo, I bow down before you. I can barely draw stick figures in the mountains with the sun shining down on them. Don't suppose you would have access to a fan-art database, would you?

[SF_and_Coffee]

I'm sorry, I don't understand your last statement. Do you mean that your characters might appear in someone else's story? I've had two or three people ask for and use my OC in their stories. That would be an intersection, right?

It could be either an intersection or a shared universe, depending on how it was written. Let's say that X writes a story set in her particular Stargateverse, and I write one in my own, but somewhere along the way we decide we each like an idea that the other has come up with. So, this being Stargate, we might find a means (Quantum Mirror, anyone?) to bring a character or object from hers to mine, or from mine to hers, and thus link our stories in some way. I'd call that an intersection of two disparate universes.

Then there's a shared universe. Let's say that Y wants to write stories covering a certain aspect of the lives and adventures of characters about whom I am doing the same. Y and I both like each other's work and ideas, and although the bulk of our work has us writing in somewhat different versions of the Stargateverse, at the point in the timeline where the stories we're currently considering take place, our universes are basically identical. Therefore, it can be seen for all practical purposes as a shared universe, where we develop a consistent story and timeline which we then use to write our individual stories featuring the same characters. As long as the universe we are writing in remains consistent and does not diverge, it is a shared universe. If it eventually does diverge, with Y taking his version of the 'verse in one direction while I take mine in another, that portion where they were originally a single 'verse might also be regarded as an intersection, although I would probably not call it that. To me, it would be a shared root universe.

I have discussions going on for a possible shared root universe scenario right now with one author, involving the backstory of certain characters from their lives prior to the Stargate program itself, and also some talk of an intersection of my own Stargateverse with another writer's Stargateverse at another point in time. Both of these tie directly to the story I am currently writing, which is linked in my signature.

Thank you Feast, SF_and_coffee and WhyteWytch for taking my comments so well. I'm enjoying myself here.

Awesome!

[Whytewytch]

You and I are in the same mold, and probably close to the same age.

Yeah, but I'm younger.

yes, I was interested in Egypt as a kid, and the whole thing probably does help explain my love for Stargate, especially the early years of SG-1 and the character of Daniel Jackson.

CUT IT OUT! This is beginning to get creepy. LOL Although my first story was set in Australia (HUGE, GINORMOUS crush on Sam Neill at the time), I was always in love with Egypt. When I first was contemplating college, archaeology was one of the degrees I was thinking about. I used to study heiroglyphs and even tried to write in them as a teen-ager. My first "sci-fi" was about two amoeba who thought their world was the only one & became terrified when they found out they were not alone (ie: humans). That was my own personal nose-thumbing at people who claimed aliens could not be real. I also dabbled in fantasy (wrote my own version of Mephistopheles) but never really followed the genre too much outside of ancient legends, particularly Arthurian and Celtic. When Stargate first came out, I loved it. My reaction was, "I knew it! I just knew it!" Hubby was not such a fan--it was the first time in our years together that I seriously doubted my choice of mate...

Gotta say, mathpiglet, while I'm getting a bit creeped out over the similarities between SF_and_Coffee & myself, I am enjoying, too!

[WraithRichard]

Wait, someone else studied Egypt heavily as a kid? This makes me normal finally.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Yeah, but I'm younger.

Okay, but Mom liked me best.

I was always in love with Egypt. When I first was contemplating college, archaeology was one of the degrees I was thinking about. I used to study heiroglyphs and even tried to write in them as a teen-ager.

My parents had all these huge coffee-table books about Egypt and other ancient lands, and I read them all the time when I was a kid. As a teen, I began playing with a created language (for one of my fantasy stories) and even developed a consistent, working writing system for it. It wound up looking something akin to Hindi or Sanskrit in appearance, which is weird because at the time I'd had no real exposure to Indian writing systems, although I was fascinated by Indian jewelry, clothing and artwork.

I also dabbled in fantasy (wrote my own version of Mephistopheles) but never really followed the genre too much outside of ancient legends, particularly Arthurian and Celtic.

I liked Arthurian stuff, although I have to admit that the whole Stargate treatment of the Celtic and Arthurian things just left me cold. Then again, SG-1 had begun to leave me cold by then anyway. (I'm basically a "Seasons 1 - 5, with excursions into 6 and maybe bits of 7" person.) On the other hand, in All That We Leave Behind, I do feature a non-canon group of worlds populated by the descendants of Celtic tribes taken from both the British Isles and the European mainland by a non-canon Goa'uld character right around 2,000 years ago when the Romans were busy expanding their empire into places like Britain. In fact, this particular milieu figures VERY heavily in the story. The fact that one of my other hobbies is historical re-creation is definitely driving elements of my writing lately.

When Stargate first came out, I loved it. My reaction was, "I knew it! I just knew it!" Hubby was not such a fan--it was the first time in our years together that I seriously doubted my choice of mate...

My husband isn't really a big science fiction fan, but I was actually able to get him interested in Stargate.

[Skydiver]

How about we all just agree that there are certain rules that are generally accepted. You may or may not agree with these rules, but whatever you do, try to be consistent.

I second this. we're also dealing with language barriers, what's 'right' and 'wrong' in the UK may be fine in the US and vice versa. In addition, the AP style manual changes with the times, just as words are added to the dictionary every year.

The editing job done on any book is only as good as the editor, and some are better than others. I've seen published works with mistakes in them. I've seen national commercials with typos.

I think there should be a bit more 'ok, that's how you do it, this is how I do it' and less 'i'm right, you're wrong' or 'don't try to correct me, cause i'm right'

[WraithRichard]

I second this. we're also dealing with language barriers, what's 'right' and 'wrong' in the UK may be fine in the US and vice versa. In addition, the AP style manual changes with the times, just as words are added to the dictionary every year.'

I actually grew up on a mix of British and American writing, so I ended up mixing styles. To this day there are some rules I insist on tat are British, despite following American rules the rest of the time. I also use (not insist thought) on using single quotes for thoughts thanks to my love of Lewis Carroll.