Fanfic Pet Peeves

[Feast of the Muse]

Without quoting that massive text on the last page, all I have to say is that I guess that I've been proved wrong. But I still think that 'The Colonel' looks better.

Here in the southern US, that would be a particular person you are talking about. "The Colonel" down here is none other than Colonel Sanders... of Kentucky Fried Chicken.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Here in the southern US, that would be a particular person you are talking about. "The Colonel" down here is none other than Colonel Sanders... of Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Oh, yes. Here too, actually.

[sbz]

Without quoting that massive text on the last page, all I have to say is that I guess that I've been proved wrong. But I still think that 'The Colonel' looks better.

I'm with you on this one, Goose. This is one area in which I'm very flexible.

I personally think it looks really dumb and inconsistent to have "the colonel" in the prose and then "Colonel" in someone's dialogue, or an attribution.

Further, I would argue that for Carter, who only calls Jack "sir" or "colonel" even the construction "the colonel" is, for her, essentially a name and it's functioning as a proper noun, even with the "the."

For my series, Carter was "the Colonel" to a trio of secondary characters - that was all they called her. It was her name, and it was always capitalized when writing from their POV. Further, when talking about her, all characters (who used the rank) called her "the Colonel" capitalized because again, they're using it as a name. So that's my position on that.

[SF_and_Coffee]

That's fine; just be aware that if you were writing for actual publication, your editor would change it. There are actual writing style rules that govern it, and it looks wrong to many of us when they aren't followed. I outlined why they work the way they do, and the reasons are logical. Titles aren't proper nouns when you put "the" in front of them; otherwise, we would captialize ALL nouns and our Writing would look like something out of the 18th century:

Jack walked down the Ramp from the Stargate, carrying his Backpack and Zat. General Hammond awaited him and the rest of his Team at the Bottom of the Ramp, wearing a Smile on his Face. "I gather you found Naquadah on the Planet?" he asked.

The Colonel grinned. "Oh, they have Naquadah, all right. They also have a big honkin' Library that I could barely pull Daniel away from. All kinds of Books and Scrolls, in about thirty different Languages. He'd still be there if the Natives hadn't informed him that he'd need to wait three Weeks for his Application for a Library Card to be approved.

The General grinned past the Colonel's Shoulder at the embarrassed Look on the Archaeologist's Face. "Well, Doctor Jackson, it seems to me that you'll have to wait a While before you can delve as deeply into the History of that Planet and its People as you would like."

The younger Man shrugged. "I guess so. But at least it gives me Something to look forward to."

What that probably looks like to you is what stories with all the titles capitalized even when they aren't proper nouns looks like to a lot of other readers. Just something to consider. This is why the publishing industry and the craft of writing have standardized usages. If you were to go to your bookshelves or even open up the newspaper and read articles where there are military personnel referenced, you'll find that military titles are only capitalized when they are proper nouns. Does it look odd when you read it that way in a commercially-published novel?

[Feast of the Muse]

For my series, Carter was "the Colonel" to a trio of secondary characters - that was all they called her. It was her name, and it was always capitalized when writing from their POV. Further, when talking about her, all characters (who used the rank) called her "the Colonel" capitalized because again, they're using it as a name. So that's my position on that.

I'm tempted to agree with sbz on this one, only because the article seems to be part of the name in that particular case. If they always call her the colonel then that whole phrase has become her name. We don't capitalize articles unless they begin a sentence or title, so of course you aren't capitalizing it even as part of the name. So her name would be, to them, the Colonel.

[SF_and_Coffee]

For my series, Carter was "the Colonel" to a trio of secondary characters - that was all they called her. It was her name, and it was always capitalized when writing from their POV. Further, when talking about her, all characters (who used the rank) called her "the Colonel" capitalized because again, they're using it as a name. So that's my position on that.

I'm tempted to agree with sbz on this one, only because the article seems to be part of the name in that particular case. If they always call her the colonel then that whole phrase has become her name. We don't capitalize articles unless they begin a sentence or title, so of course you aren't capitalizing it even as part of the name. So her name would be, to them, the Colonel.

In her internal thoughts, perhaps. If, for example, you were writing an italicized bit of internal musing or self-talk that took place inside Carter's head, it might make sense to capitalize it, since then you are making it clear that this is how this one particular woman thinks of this one particular man. But in general usage outside of that, no, it looks wrong, and very Old Fashioned. Like something from the 18th century, as I mentioned.

I go with what is standard in the books I read. Published novels in the mil fic or military SF genres don't capitalize the titles except in very specific circumstances, as I laid out in an earlier post. Therefore, I follow the same rule for the sake of consistency, since I assume most of the people reading fanfic also read commercial fiction in the same genre. It really is less jarring for the reader.

Incidentally, this is also the same rule that the United States Air Force itself follows in the writing of press releases and other material. Since the USAF is such a huge factor in Stargate and the titles in question here are primarily military ranks, it seems only appropriate to me to follow the same conventions followed by the actual USAF itself.

[Whytewytch]

I have kind of a related question, as this goes not just for your story - why would some words be rendered in another language? Do they speak English the rest of the time? Otherwise it seems odd that some words would be in another language (Welsh, here).
I know - the same goes for the entire show (and many others shows) - why do some words get spoken in another language? Why do Jaffa only speak some words in Goa'uld (even among themselves)?

I agree with what SF_and_Coffee was saying. It adds a sense of intimacy to the story. I don't read, write or speak Irish, but my character is Irish. She actually is living in England in parts of the story and is married to an Englishman, so while she and her friend might speak English (particularly in front of her husband), their pet names for each other would still be in their native tongue. My Spanish-speaking friend will speak in English around me because she knows my Spanish is limited, but she'll still call her daughters their pet names in Spanish.

Technically, SF, you are also right in that I should not have capitalized firéad at all, but I also think a pet name of that type falls into the murkiness enough that I'm not going back to edit over it until and unless I de-fan fic the story and send it to a publisher (or edit and repost the whole thing, which I don't see happening as I have too many plot bunnies nipping at my ankles, knees, etc).

[SF_and_Coffee]

Technically, SF, you are also right in that I should not have capitalized firéad at all, but I also think a pet name of that type falls into the murkiness enough that I'm not going back to edit over it until and unless I de-fan fic the story and send it to a publisher (or edit and repost the whole thing, which I don't see happening as I have too many plot bunnies nipping at my ankles, knees, etc).

Oh dear, do yours nip too? I just keep hoping mine are all up to date on their shots, as there are rather too many to keep track of myself.

[Whytewytch]

Oh dear, do yours nip too? I just keep hoping mine are all up to date on their shots, as there are rather too many to keep track of myself.

They nip, bite and occasionally tear the flesh. Honestly, they are like unregulated Nubbins ATM

Spoiler:

(hope you watch Sanctuary--if not, think Tribbles with teeth). They are some randy little critters at times, as well. Right now, I am trying to finish the third in a trilogy for the Robin Hood BBC fandom, complete a multi-chap romance in the SGA fandom and have two romances in the Sanctuary (SFA) fandom that want me to write them concurrently. In the meantime, I have notes for another SGA romance and another SFA romance. Now, thanks to asking some research questions on an SFA comm on LJ, I have an idea for another little one-shot. Then, there's my three OF stories, one of which is probably going into the circular file. AAARRRGGGHHH!!! But it could be worse--there could be no plot bunnies at all.

[WraithRichard]

They nip, bite and occasionally tear the flesh. Honestly, they are like unregulated Nubbins ATM [SPOILERS](hope you watch Sanctuary--if not, think Tribbles with teeth). They are some randy little critters at times, as well.

Tis is going to sound amazingly stupid, but that sounds like that MLP episode, Swarm of the Century.

[Feast of the Muse]

Tis is going to sound amazingly stupid, but that sounds like that MLP episode, Swarm of the Century.

If MLP stands for My Little Pony you will have just made my day.

[SF_and_Coffee]

They nip, bite and occasionally tear the flesh. Honestly, they are like unregulated Nubbins ATM

Spoiler:

(hope you watch Sanctuary--if not, think Tribbles with teeth). They are some randy little critters at times, as well. Right now, I am trying to finish the third in a trilogy for the Robin Hood BBC fandom, complete a multi-chap romance in the SGA fandom and have two romances in the Sanctuary (SFA) fandom that want me to write them concurrently. In the meantime, I have notes for another SGA romance and another SFA romance. Now, thanks to asking some research questions on an SFA comm on LJ, I have an idea for another little one-shot. Then, there's my three OF stories, one of which is probably going into the circular file. AAARRRGGGHHH!!! But it could be worse--there could be no plot bunnies at all.

I've got the story currently linked in my signature (All That We Leave Behind, which I generally refer to simply as ATWLB). Then I have its sequel, and now a third idea for a story set in the same series/universe (since it's a mild AU) is beginning to take shape. I'm working on ATWLB and its immediate sequel, Undying, at the same time. Often, one will distract me from the other, like a pair of mischievous children vying for their mother's attention. The third is still just at the stage of whispering in my ear. Then I have another SG-1 story that exists as perhaps 1500 words in two scenes, and will eventually be expanded to a full story and slotted into the same AU, although it was pretty generic when I originally wrote those scenes. I wrote them simply because they were bouncing around in my brain to be let out.

[sbz]

That's fine; just be aware that if you were writing for actual publication, your editor would change it. There are actual writing style rules that govern it, and it looks wrong to many of us when they aren't followed. I outlined why they work the way they do, and the reasons are logical. Titles aren't proper nouns when you put "the" in front of them; otherwise, we would captialize ALL nouns and our Writing would look like something out of the 18th century:


What that probably looks like to you is what stories with all the titles capitalized even when they aren't proper nouns looks like to a lot of other readers. Just something to consider. This is why the publishing industry and the craft of writing have standardized usages. If you were to go to your bookshelves or even open up the newspaper and read articles where there are military personnel referenced, you'll find that military titles are only capitalized when they are proper nouns. Does it look odd when you read it that way in a commercially-published novel?

I'm hardly advocating it for all nouns. I'm talking about words that function as proper nouns even in the construction of "the whatever" which is hardly "the ramp." No one would argue that it's functioning as a proper noun.

In my experience, some [smaller] publishers and editors have some flexibility, especially if the author can articulate a reason for the way they've done something. And every publishing house has its own house style (which can be subject to the whims and preferences of the people who created it), which hardly makes the entire industry identical.

I don't read military fiction or anything of that sort, so I couldn't say if it bothers me. I don't think it really bothers me when I read Stargate fic. Like I said, I'm very flexible in this arena, and I explained the reasons behind my writerly decisions.

I looked up a couple Tom Clancy and other military books on amazon and there's a whole bunch of "the Captain" and "the Lieutenant"s being thrown around alongside "the captain." Seems not even all publishers, editors, and house styles agree on this.

Of everything to get peeved about or to agonize over correcting, this issue seems to me very minor. Whether it's the Colonel or the colonel, the reader's comprehension is in no way impeded.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I'm just saying, don't call something a proper noun when it isn't. Military titles cease to be proper nouns when they take "the" in front of them. You don't have to like it, but it's a pretty well-known rule of writing. You can use a noun like "man" to refer to someone who is known, and say that it's obviously substituting for the person's name, but that still doesn't mean that the word "man" would be a proper noun in that context and take a capital. "Sam looked up to see the Man walking toward her" just doesn't make sense when you look at it written out, does it? Well "the colonel" is equivalent to "the man" in that there are lots and lots of colonels running around in the military, even just within the SGC. Lots of men, too. Both are common nouns as long as you're using "the" in front of them, and common nouns don't get capitalized. Want to capitalize it? Then use it as a form of address, without using "the", or follow it with the colonel's actual name. Problem solved.

(And even small publishing houses follow a stylebook when they edit someone's manuscript. There is no stylebook I know of in which military titles are capitalized when being used as common nouns.)

The problem isn't one of disrupting reader comprehension, any more than having ten typos for every twenty words is, or continually misspelling a character's name or consistently forgetting to capitalize names like jack or sam or daniel (See? It's jarring, isn't it?), or getting the character's "voice" wrong in dialogue. The problem here is that typos, spelling errors and uncharacteristic voices all have a tendency to jar the reader out of the story or the scene so that they're noticing how you've written something rather than what you've written.

I looked up a couple Tom Clancy and other military books on amazon and there's a whole bunch of "the Captain" and "the Lieutenant"s being thrown around alongside "the captain." Seems not even all publishers, editors, and house styles agree on this.

That's funny, because I've got a lot of those books (Clancy, Griffin, etc.) physically on my bookshelves and I actually went and looked at a few of them today just to make sure I wasn't misremembering what I'm used to reading. The ones I have generally follow the very same style convention I follow, and which I advocate. Are you sure what you were seeing on Amazon wasn't in reviews or quotes, rather than the actual printed material itself?

[WraithRichard]

If MLP stands for My Little Pony you will have just made my day.

Indeed it does.