'The Shrine' (506) General Discussion

[ussrelativity]

^ I'm not sure everyone knows yet. They will be in for a nasty surprise soon.

[metabog]

Sg-1 Watergate: The stargate connected to a water planet and a sub marine was sent through. The water didn't come rushing back in the gateroom.

You can only go one way. The water can't come rushing back through an outgoing wormhole (nothing can). This episode is the same.

[-[SpArkY]-]

Just saw it and I almost cried!!! so I guess it was a really good episode


I loved the part where Rodney was running in the hall screaming for john. It was 'adorable' tongue.gif so was his panda pj tongue.gif

I saw something coming between Mckay and keller and so here it was, how sweet smile.gif
I don't understand why so many people hate her ohmy.gif

[Klenotka]

Holy crap....I think that´s all I can say right now.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Firstly those that are feeling a bit fragile may want tissues for this ep if they haven't watched it already. I'm not afraid to say that I probably blubbed for about 40 minutes of the ep.

Now i've only watched it once, so from first impressions, I absolutely adored all the character moments, photography, the lighting, the sets, the story, the score. It takes a lot to make me cry, but for me what stood out the most was the character bits. I couldn't get enough of them. There were a few things that made me want to puke, but i'll get to that later...

Firstly, loved the beating up of science personell, and Woolsey's 'I don't think so', moments. Then him pottering around wondering what to do with himself and striking up bizarre conversations with Amelia.

Then the whole 'warning' and we see the team on top of the 'gate. It was to say the very least breathtaking, the close ups and then as the camera pans out to give the audience a view of how desperate the situation was to the not giving out their ID to Woolsey, and Rodney snuffling and feeling feverish. The 'scenery' and let's face it, wet Shep were breathtaking.

I did love the initial infirmary scene with everyone with Rodney, and Shep/Joe grinning to Ronon/Jason... I did wonder if something happened off camera. It's nice to see that sort of moments, and Rodney actually trying to get out of the infirmary!!! That should have been a warning in itself.

At the moment i'm not too sure how I felt about Rodney's deterioration being filmed, it was upsetting and I understand the point it was making, but it was hard to watch. I may need to watch it again to get a proper feel. I loved Ronon's passion in this and him physically pushing the issue on Keller. And I liked the fact that Keller stood up for her patient. BUT for me that became a bit tainted... but i'll get onto that later on. I think that's the first time since ToR that we've seen Ronon that passionate about helping Rodney and I really felt for Woolsey and Ronon when they both relived moments from their past. To see Ronon and Teyla wanting to go off half cocked to help their friend was lovely to see.

I'm going to try not to well up when I recount the friendship between Shep and Rodney and Rodney running through the halls shouting Shep's name... I bet the slashes loved that to. For me those scenes in Shep's quarters, and Rodney's apologizing for barging in and waking up alone.... Okay i'm starting to get mysty eyed again. *composes self* Okay i'm good, the next part of Shep taking Rodney onto the pier and having beer. Wonderful, breathtaking, heartwarming and just so beautiful, those are the friendship moments that I long for, just two friends having a beer, made all the more tragic by one of them being ill. And Shep still refusing to say goodbye to his friend, but Rodney needing that closure.... wonderful scripted. And then the boys got the giggles. That bit was so funny, seeing them both having a laugh, I think the 'arthur' bit was scripted, but Joe lost it when he looked over at David. That's just a feeling, and if it was, i'm so glad they kept it in. If it was in the script, then can I just say it's now my fave scene ever. Yep I loved it even more than every whumpy scene to date!! But if it's repeated outside this thread i'll deny I ever said it.

So moving on, David's performance in this was heartbreaking, damn him for making me get all upset all the way through the eppy. And Sheppard and Ronon, and Teyla's emotiions, just held back under the surface, but breaking through in parts was wonderful and warmed the cockles of my heart.

I really enjoyed Jeanie's part, she made me blub in the first 10 minutes. I loved that she told Keller that it was her choice as next of kin, and I did enjoy the 'struggle' between those two, and Keller standing up for what she believed in, but for me that bit felt bitter when I saw the ending. The whole, 'I love you' was too much too soon for me. An it felt wrong to be honest. Keller saying no to taking some food off Rodney's plate at the beginning was great and rightly it is frowned upon, but the whole doctor/patient relationship is even more frowned upon, so for me after seeing that, it didn't sit right for me, because I do feel it's unethical. Now will Rodney remember? That wasn't clear to be honest.

But for me while I loved the ep and cried buckets, adored the character moments and development. Absolutely loved the cinematography, the sets, the waterful was breathtaking and loved the bug getting squooshed and Sheppard playing nurse hehe. It was just that one thing that made me feel quite awkward because of the doctor/patient relationship. It goes against all the medical ethics and that's what i'm struggling with.

But apart from those few bits, I could watch this ep over and over again. Maybe i'll just FF those bits instead.

[Aveylon]

I have a question for people who have a medical background. I know it’s not ideal but is it possible to use a drill like to make a hole in a human skull.

We dont get to see that often, but yes. They use a drill to make a hole, thats when they not actually getting the chainsaw out to cut a bigger part to have more room to work. =p Or to give more room to the swelling brain after a trauma, like they did for Elizabeth Weir in Adrift. =)


After the GetWeirbackandloseheragain of Ghost in the Machine, I wasnt expecting much of The Shrine. Pleasantly surprised though. =) Finally got to see Ronon do more than growl (hes been kinda quiet for a while ><), some very good team moments where it didnt feel forced.

What Im most happy about in this episode is that we really get to see the characters to what its supposed to be. Bits of history with Ronon and Teyla, we learning more about them and their lives before Atlantis. Keller being a good doctor, not giving up till she runs out of options. John being so simpleminded that it brings you back to the simplicity of things. The drill to make a hole works, right? =p And Rodney being human was a really nice refreshing moment to see. Even Superman has his bad days.

Really good episode without that much special effects needed, no epic battles or ugly monster (NO - dont make me think about that slime that came out of his brain, k?). Loved it =) Shame they are stopping after this season. ><

/tackle hug to Ronon, he was really sweet and huggable

[Pegasus_SGA]

[QUOTE]

Jelgate's Two Cents

The tiny bit between Ronon and Jeanie was fantastic and I loved seeing Keller's skeptical nature when Jeanie mentioned the Pegasus Galaxy illness which led into the probably the best scene in the whole episode It was fun watching the Pegasus Galaxy natives battle beliefs against the Tauri. I'll admit to becoming on the verge of tears when Woolsey mention Altizhmiers. I know whets it like to lose a loved one through that deadly disease. I also enjoy how Keller is such a skeptic and refuses to let McKay go to the Shrine even knowing it will return him to normal for a little while. Medical professionals aren't very good at letting go. You can see how hurt Keller is when Jeanie pretty much orders Meredith to go to the Shrine.

*hugs for Jelly*

Who doesn't love tension? The whole arguing between Sheppard and Keller was fun to watch. I loved watching them argue about getting medical supplies. I have a question for people who have a medical background. I know it’s not ideal but is it possible to use a drill like to make a hole in a human skull. It also seems far-fetched that that life signs detector could be turned into a human scanner. Ronon shooting the parasite was funny especially after Sheppard said he could just step on it. The infirmary scene IMO opinion should have featured the whole team not just Jeanie. It should been about all his loved one being there as he recovered.

Yep hon, in some underdeveloped countries, and in some emergencies they can use a cordless drill, to do brain surgery. Usually some of the instruments are more finer, but it can be done with your normal Bosch power drill

[Linda06]

This ep was ok........It wasn't the best ep i've seen but it was ok....Loved Woolsey again......There has never been one scene in S5 i have't liked him in...Every scene he is just great.....A rambling to that poor woman at the controls

I actually didn't mind Rodney in this ep....Didn't really feel the emotion though....Well i'm not generally an emotional person so maybe that has something to do with it

I must admit i liked the scene with Rodney and John sitting having beer...Ronon was sweet.......But not that much Teyla.....Again

I liked Keller.......For me this is the best ep i've seen her in...The guilt,the hurt...All there...

I'm not liking the whole Rodney/Keller romance angle though

But all in all it was an ok ep.....Not good but not bad!!!

[ozziescum]

I am so tired of having the writers try and make the viewers love Keller as much as they do.

Agreed. Jewel is great; Keller is not. It's an important distinction to make, and one that won't change no matter how much Keller we're force-fed by writers anxious to improve Keller's popularity with the fans.

This episode just reinforced how badly I'd like Carson back. For starters, he would have believed Ronon and Teyla...

[Linzi]

I have to say, after watching some scenes from The Shrine, I wonder why the *BLEEP* ANYONE in their right mind would cancel a show that can produce character moments which make me cry... that Shep and McKay scene on the pier? Well, for me it's just one of the best Stargate moments I've ever seen, and it makes me feel such a loss at losing this show. Dvd movie or not, I'm losing this

That scene, for me, was the hilight of the episode. It made me cry as did Jeannie's scene with Rodney. Sniff. Very well played by all the actors. It's rare to see any moments between Shep and McKay these days, and those scenes, from where Rodney ran to Shep's quarters so distressed, to where they sat and drank beer, with the illuminated Atlantis behind them...well, it'll live in my mind forever, I think.

I loved the scenes on the flooded 'gate. Very beautiful and quite spectacular. I'm a tad surprised that glacial flood waters would recede in 9 hours, but who knows?

However, I do have a few issues with the episode.

Firstly, I'm not sure about the use of some of the flashbacks. For me, it slowed the momentum of the episode and the excessive cataloguing of McKay's deterioration, and jumping from the flashbacks to the present, really removed some of the tension from the episode, and at times felt overdone. I felt very sad at McKay's decline and am not someone who enjoys watching brain damage in a character. So, for me, some of those scenes were difficult to watch, though DH played them well, IMO.

I didn't feel either Teyla or Ronon got their moment with McKay, which was sad, and I felt there was too much Keller at times. In fact, I felt she was included to the detriment of Ronon and Teyla, particularly the latter. Since when did Keller become such an important person to McKay? Or heck, on the show generally? He loves her? Okaaaaay...this is moving all too quickly for me. Maybe Rodney cares very much for Keller, but love? Too much, too soon and well, overkill for me. Sorry. Keller's increased screen time did take time away from Teyla and Ronon, IMO, and I'm sad to see that happen.

Keller has aleady become far too involved emotionally with Rodney to be his doctor, and this episode illustrated that well. Why? Because she was too involved to make choices without being emotional about it - her judgement was impaired. Doctors simply don't sit and stroke their patients hair and cuddle them. Jeannie, as Rodney's next of kin stood up to Keller about going to the shrine, and I've got to say, I was cheering Jeannie on there!!!!

If they hadn't have gone, Rodney most likely wouldn't have been cured. Sometimes you have to take a risk, and surely, if as Ronon said, something happened which temporarily relieved symptoms, then it was worth at least going to look at it to see if it made a difference and to see if a treatment could be found in some way there? They couldn't do a recon because of the wraith being there, so they had to take a risk, and what else was left open to them? Sure, it was a huge risk, but what else could be done? I know nobody knew a cure would be found there, but I still think Keller was wrong here. I understand her concern for her patient though and that she thought it'd be worse for Rodney to be ok for a while, just to revert back to the way he was and then die. I do understand that.

The last scene with Keller watching the video was too much for me. I'd have much preferred it if Rodney had said he really liked her or cared about her - that I could well understand. But I'd really have liked a final scene with Jeannie and the team. It's pretty obvious TPTB are ploughing ahead with the romance thing. That's a shame, IMO. Because they're about as subtle as a sledgehammer about it, and the team dynamic could well suffer because of that


Overall, this episode was well acted and directed. A couple of scenes were probably some of the best scenes I've ever seen on any Stargate show, so that's terrific to see. But, the episode was far from perfect for me structually, though on an emotional level it certainly succeeded brilliantly. I can't give it a score really as yet, the Shep/McKay scene on the pier and before? 11/10. Some of the others, Jeannie's one's particularly? 10/10 too. But overall an enjoyable episode again, but not the best Atlantis episode I've ever seen.

[blitzsnake]

Awesome episode. Proves that a character ep can be good and not horrible like Trio.
The scenes I liked was Shep and Mckay on the pier and every scene with Woolsey. Woolsey is awesome. Finally, someone that is funny!!

[Linzi]

Awesome episode. Proves that a character ep can be good and not horrible like Trio.
The scenes I liked was Shep and Mckay on the pier and every scene with Woolsey. Woolsey is awesome. Finally, someone that is funny!!

Woolsey was good! Oops, forgot to say that

I liked his explaining about his father, and thought his scepticism was well placed here. I also liked the small amount of tension we got between him and Sheppard about sending a MALP through before every transit. Very nicely done, IMO.

[bluealien]

This episode left me feeilng, been there done that. I didnt feel any emotion seeing Rodney act all senile, it was more uncomforbable than anything else.

The only scene that I would say remotely tugged at my heartstrings was the scene between Rodney and Jeannie. Jeannie did a great job and she seemed the most genuinally concerned person here. The Sheppard/McKay scenes were nice but I wouldnt call them emotional, and again John did exactly the same in TOR refusing to say goodbye. If I thought for a moment that there was a real possibility that Rodney would actuall die then I may have found this scene poignant. It was a nice moment between them but it was really the last few seconds that made it stand out when Shep spit his drink out and Rodney laughed... not sure whether it was scripted but it made the scene for me. And as much as all McShep fans probably loved Rodney running to John's quarters, if seemed odd if Rodney is meant to be in love with Keller... I thought she would have been his first port of call.

Keller was better here than in any previous episode and its a shame the ptb didnt write her like this from the beginning, though I have a lot of issues with her knowing she likes Rodney and still treating him and I don't understand her objection to taking Rodney to the Shrine.. she had already said he was dying so what was their to loose.. so glad Jeannie stepped up here.

Teyla and Ronon once again were stage props and I don't think Teyla has gotten as much screentime as Keller has here in her entire 4 seasons. So personally I would have preferred to see more of Teyla's reaction and some nice moments between her and Rodney rather that all the Keller.

So a few scenes that I enjoyed but overall this episode lacked any real tension or emotion for me. Rodney dying again just doesn't seem to float my boat.

5/10 is as much as I can give it mainly due to the scene on the gate and some nice moments with Jeannie and Shep.
Oh one more thing I liked ..... Woolsey.. love the guy..

[Klenotka]

OK, I am more coherent now

I loved it. The opening scene just stunned me - David really is an amazing actor and if he doesn´t get some award this year I will be very upset. I know it since Treed Murray that he is great when he gets the chance but I am still pleasently suprised. It reminded "Flowers for Algernon" how he is aware of his condintion and that he "isn´t smart any more".

Rodney and Sheppard friendship scenes were great. It was awesome. How Rodney called John - how great is it to know that Shep was sitting with him all the time?
The beer scene was great but the moments before - when Rodney ran to John from all the people, and how scared he was and how comforting was John. And I think that chemistry between David and Joe helped. They are both at the same vibe and, from all actors, they have been together since the first scenes of SGA, so they know each other and work perfectly together. While David is more a physical type - he is using whole his body, is more, I don´t know, an exhibicionist maybe, then Joe is the calmer one, he is using his face, eyes to act - and it is why they are so different and still can be such perfect acting match for each other.
It´s enough just to watch the glares they share - and Joe is able to act amazingly with his eyes and face. The desperation, sadness, in his eyes when he is watching Rodney, it was almost painful to watch. It was great to watch in Tao, but here, it was even better. This definitely won over Miller´s Crossing and I didn´t think this might ever happen.

And, I am a McKeller shipper - I never shipped anyone but I think they are perfect. Jewel and David are both great actors and the characters fit together. And I don´t think it´s forced, it´s just there.

Jason was also cool here. With his calm presence but determined to help Rodney, Ronon showed more respect and friendship than ever. Even better than Tao in some ways - here, he was able to help. I don´t think he was pushed back - on the contrary - he was himself and did the best he could. But he just did it his way.

I didn´t like Teyla sometimes - I thought that her grimaces were a little off. Especially in one scene in the cave, when her face was like she is in pain or what. But I am sorry she didn´t get some scenes with Rodney. And I am sorry we probably won´t have chance to see any.

Kate is great and I think the fact she is David´s real life sister helped a lot.

Scene with gate in a water was fantastic, I have to say.

Woolsey and the "breakfast scene" was very funny. How he practically asked the gate girl if he is allowed to go to the breakfast.

The only thing I didn´t like was the solution. And the reaction of the team when Rodney didn´t like what they did. What did they expect? I would be angry, too.

After a year and a half an episode I am going to watch again. But later, I need to absorb it.

[HD89]

Loved this episode. The "beer scene" with Rodney and John was just brilliant. I don't think we've ever seen either of them just laugh genuinely... It felt extremely real, somehow.