Season Five : Complaints and Misgivings

[Dr Weir]

I also made that joke. But when you think of it, Woolsey was TPTB's safest choice. Think about. If they brought Caldwell, or any other military officer, or any other serious person for that matter, to take command of Atlantis, such a move would reflect badly on Carter and her leadership skillz, and that cannot happen.

By choosing Woolsey, they can blame Carter's removal from command on the IOA and so forth. And, as JM made clear, he considers the leadership position on Atlantis support role. Maybe he thinks that, by putting a low profile character like Woolsey in charge of Atlantis, those annoying fans will stop complaining about the expedition leader being wallpapered, etc., you know, so they can concentrate on their fave characters, idiotic jokes, sexual innuendos, etc.

TPTB must not think much of us.

Isn't jefferyb's comment off topic? Are his kind of posts allowed here?

[ShadowMaat]

TPTB must not think much of us.

Obviously. They make the show dumb just in case we can't figure it out, they ignore any concerns fans have and if you're outspoken about your complaints you get ridiculed for it. To say nothing of the insults that sometimes get worked into the eps themselves.

And I've reported the offending post.

[Dr Weir]

And I've reported the offending post.

So did I hours ago.

I just don't understand how SGA has gotten this bad. I would have thought tptb would have learned from the cancellation of SG1 and I just don't get it, it's like they want to ruin the show and get it cancelled also. Maybe there's a hidden agenda.

[Dr Weir]

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why Sheppard is constantly compared to Kirk. My mouth always drops open every time I read it.

Someone who thinks he is “constantly Kirking” please list for me every Kirk-like instance that you see.

There are four kisses in 76 episodes: Sanctuary, Epiphany, The Tower and Travelers.
Don’t bother listing them.

It doesn't have to be kisses. He constantly flirts and when he doesn't, the women are. I wasn't bothered at first but then it started to get ridiculous, it's like TPTB are playing out their fantasies! Also all the women tend look similar and are mostly button nosed and blond, it would be nice to have more ordinary looking women for a change.

[ToasterOnFire]

I just don't understand how SGA has gotten this bad. I would have thought tptb would have learned from the cancellation of SG1 and I just don't get it, it's like they want to ruin the show and get it cancelled also. Maybe there's a hidden agenda.

Nah, I think that TPTB are doing the best job they can from their POV and that they're happy with how things are going. That is, unfortunately, my major reason why I'm not planning on tuning in next season. If they think everything is peachy and I think things are mediocre at best, I'm not expecting something to radically shift next season for me to start truly enjoying the show again. Sure some old characters will go and some new characters will appear, but I think the underlying problems (big reset button, minimizing or ignoring characters, frat boy humor, objectifying women) will still be there to muck things up.

I said it last season when they swapped Carter for Weir and I'll say it again for the upcoming season. I think there are fundamental problems with the writing and if that's ignored in favor of shiny!new characters and enemies then it's akin to polishing a rotting apple. Or putting a new coat of paint on the Titanic.

[blue-skyz]

Um... Tame has said to stay on topic, meaning positivity about s5 needs to go somewhere else.

For those who are saying how great S5 is, and how they have no issues, a reminder from Skydiver about what will happen for breaking the rules of this thread, which is for Complaints and Misgivings

This is not an "anti" SGA or "anti" Season 5 thread, or that was what I assumed from reading the rules.

It is a place to express misgivings about possible happenings in the future of the show.
Or express complaints about things that have happened on the show that will affect the future or decisions that have been announced about the future of the show.

All related to Season 5...I assume.

Misgivings can be expressed in relation to other aspects of the show to give them context….I assume.

I can be generally approving of the way the show is going and still have complaints and misgivings.
The impression that I got from the rules was that this was the place to express them.
Or so I assumed.

I assume that all of the following are acceptable here:
-Teyla never gets enough screen time and is poorly developed.
-Teyla is on screen too much for a character that has so little to offer.
OR
-Sheppard and McKay are overused, while the other team members are underused.
-Sheppard and McKay the main characters and are not together on screen enough.
OR
-There may not be enough Larrin to suit me.
-Any Larrin in S5 will be too much Larrin.
Etc. etc.

So maybe there should be some clarification.

Is this an “anti” SGA or "anti" Season 5 thread, or is it open to gentler discussion?

[Skydiver]

it is meant to be a place to commiserate over your complaints and misgivings. no matter what they may be.

it's not a place to say 'ok, so you think teyla's baby is a sucky thing but i don't

if you disagree with someone's complaint, this isn't the place to 'convince' them that they're wrong. agree with what you agree with, ignore what you don't

[blue-skyz]

I see kirking more as a state of mind I think shep get into, (ala the ep with volcano cant think of the name) He didnt actualy kiss her but the kirkyness was there in the way he acted around her

I agree with you about The Inferno. Close to the bottom of my list. I’ve been told that Sheppard was teasing McKay, because McKay was interested in her. Could be, but poorly executed. I still don’t see Kirk, though. I do think it was meant as a joke, just weirdly done.

So, given you do see Kirk, The Inferno is number one on the list.

[Killdeer]

I agree with you about The Inferno. Close to the bottom of my list. I’ve been told that Sheppard was teasing McKay, because McKay was interested in her. Could be, but poorly executed. I still don’t see Kirk, though. I do think it was meant as a joke, just weirdly done.

So, given you do see Kirk, The Inferno is number one on the list.

I don't generally see "kirking", and I didn't have a problem with Inferno, but I still have a huge problem with The Tower. That one was really really bad - I agree with stclare on that.

Regarding the Zelenka/shoes subject (which was where we were at on my lunch break ), was that really supposed to be a joke? I'm a little confused now - I thought JM said it was an actual scene in Critical Mass that was filmed, and then cut for time.

[Willow'sCat]

As much as i want to see Carson, I really dont see how his reintroduction is going to be done without it seeming like a farce.

Also how will they provide enough material for two doctors?

Like I said before how big is this cast going to get, and what charcters will suffer because of it?

Ah but there is the thing... we have no idea how Carson is going to come back, is he even going to be a Doctor on the show anymore? He may just be a "friend" to the others, I am sorry to say this but Carson could end up with 5 minutes screen time in most of his eps, I see nothing in what Joe M has said to indicate the episodes Carson is in are going to be "Carson eps" they could just be eps he happens to appear in, big difference.

[Jackie]

Bringing in Woolsey means TPTB can pretend to have dissension in the ranks again and build up a lot of false conflict between Woolsey and Sheppard. As Capt. Jack would say, "Wow, how homoerotic." Alas, it won't be that kinda conflict and the result will probably side mostly with Shep doing whatever the hell he wants, same as always.

they also want to make sure to attract an star trek people too...at least i would gather by the move. same with B. Bowder and C. Black...attract the 'other fans" to our show by hiring actors from other successful shows.

if it is meant as a move to give shep an authority figure to pull whatever he wants on...then they might as well placed Rodney in charge. Then again, wooley is pretty close to being Rodney.

Good point. I hadn't looked at it like that before. Isn't it funny how they'll go to any length to protect Carter's image, but they're perfectly willing to destroy Weir. The character has been treated appallingly, but JM and co don't care, because to them, the SGA character are expendable. Unlike the SG1 characters.

And whoever said he said Atlantis is comedy disguised as scifi --- I don't know about you, but that just says to me that he'd rather not be doing scifi. He probably sees it as beneath him. If that's the case, it's an insult to every SG fan out there.

that was me that quoted JM and yes, he meant it too. He was talking about the franchise in general...I think.

To me...it just reflects the "Animal House" humor they like to explore and employee a wee but too much.

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why Sheppard is constantly compared to Kirk. My mouth always drops open every time I read it.

Someone who thinks he is “constantly Kirking” please list for me every Kirk-like instance that you see.

I get the impression that Kirking is in reference to having all the alien chicks practically throw themselves at him or constantly flirt with him. Gets rather annoying after a while.

The Tower, man that was a bad ep. I could never get how Shep forgot about Rodney being trapped down in that ship, whilst he got his groove on with Princess Bride. I mean he ordered rodney to shoot the drones knowing it could colapse on my poor wee Rodders. Shame on you shep, why wernt you trying to get to your team mate.

For me Kirking doesnt mean sex. I see kirking more as a state of mind I think shep get into, (ala the ep with volcano cant think of the name) He didnt actualy kiss her but the kirkyness was there in the way he acted around her. same with travellers I think he looses his credibility when confronted with women by pulling that act. I want to see him act respectfull not try and pull the "look at me arnt i pretty" card.

I dont think we will ever agree on Larrin or Kirking because we see them in different ways.

nice chatting with you though

lol...yep, that's kirking in my book.

It doesn't have to be kisses. He constantly flirts and when he doesn't, the women are. I wasn't bothered at first but then it started to get ridiculous, it's like TPTB are playing out their fantasies! Also all the women tend look similar and are mostly button nosed and blond, it would be nice to have more ordinary looking women for a change.

Having one aline girl flirt with him or any other guy from the team once in a while...when it affects the plot is fine. You're right, after a while it became the running gag.

Nah, I think that TPTB are doing the best job they can from their POV and that they're happy with how things are going. That is, unfortunately, my major reason why I'm not planning on tuning in next season. If they think everything is peachy and I think things are mediocre at best, I'm not expecting something to radically shift next season for me to start truly enjoying the show again. Sure some old characters will go and some new characters will appear, but I think the underlying problems (big reset button, minimizing or ignoring characters, frat boy humor, objectifying women) will still be there to muck things up.

I said it last season when they swapped Carter for Weir and I'll say it again for the upcoming season. I think there are fundamental problems with the writing and if that's ignored in favor of shiny!new characters and enemies then it's akin to polishing a rotting apple. Or putting a new coat of paint on the Titanic.

New coat of paint on the titanic...I like that.

The issues have been and will remain in the writing no matter how many cast members they pink slip. The shiny new toy only attracts so many new viewers while losing the old character has the potential of far more damage.

This is not an "anti" SGA or "anti" Season 5 thread, or that was what I assumed from reading the rules.

It is a place to express misgivings about possible happenings in the future of the show.
Or express complaints about things that have happened on the show that will affect the future or decisions that have been announced about the future of the show.

All related to Season 5...I assume.

Misgivings can be expressed in relation to other aspects of the show to give them context….I assume.

I can be generally approving of the way the show is going and still have complaints and misgivings.
The impression that I got from the rules was that this was the place to express them.
Or so I assumed.

I assume that all of the following are acceptable here:
-Teyla never gets enough screen time and is poorly developed.
-Teyla is on screen too much for a character that has so little to offer.
OR
-Sheppard and McKay are overused, while the other team members are underused.
-Sheppard and McKay the main characters and are not together on screen enough.
OR
-There may not be enough Larrin to suit me.
-Any Larrin in S5 will be too much Larrin.
Etc. etc.

So maybe there should be some clarification.

Is this an “anti” SGA or "anti" Season 5 thread, or is it open to gentler discussion?

I would consider this an anti thread to discuss what issues you have with the show. if you don't have issues there is another thread to post what you like about the show.

I'm not here to bash the show and flame people. I'm hear to discuss issues I have about the changes and general writing with others who feel similar to the way I do.

[Chailyn]

Regarding the Zelenka/shoes subject (which was where we were at on my lunch break ), was that really supposed to be a joke? I'm a little confused now - I thought JM said it was an actual scene in Critical Mass that was filmed, and then cut for time.

We must have been on our lunch breaks at the same time.

JM says that it was a scene filmed for Common Ground (which makes no sense considering the serious tone of CG but whatever). I didn't think he was joking, but maybe he was. I hope that he was. It's just that after the Sam/Keller conversation about how Zelenka follows women around, sniffing their hair, and how they both thought he was creepy...well the stealing women's shoes would seem to fit. I hope it was just a bad joke on JM's part. Otherwise, Zelenka might graduate to stealing panties and wearing red lipstick in Season 5.

[bluealien]

I didnt get any of that from watching travellers.

I found her totaly unbelievable. I didnt see many of her people so cant say wether or not she was there due to respect or wether she tied her superior officer to a chair and used sexual inuendo to get her position.

I saw no compassion. no nothing to make me want to see her again. especialy if it means a plot has to be sacrifised so I can watch her and shep play kissy face err

Travellers had uber potential. if Larrin had been an older, wiser and less flirtasious after torturing somebody. I would have believed in her charcter more.

As it was I saw no chemistry between Shep and Larrin so felt the ep was wasted, on me at least.

I hope if we are subjected to more of her I get to see, what you see in her, at the moment Im afraid I dont.

This is how I see her. Nothing of substance whatsoever and it annoys me that she kidnaps Sheppard,, has him beaten up and almost killed but yet he seems to forgive all of this because she is hot. I wonder if Wallace had been a hot babe would Shep have sacrificed her to the Wraith..
I have no interest in seeing Larrin again. She was just fluff and I would much rather see Shep have a mature emotional liason with someone rather than cheesy immature fluff.

My only other concern is the addition of more characters to the mix. My main interest is Shep/Teyla/Ronan and McKay with a side helping of Lorne and Zelenka. These are the characters I want to see fleshed out. I have no interest in another team or Larrin or any other of the myriad of characters that we will be getting in season 5. I liked Carter in Command and really felt she was beginning to fit in nicely. I understand that AT has now other committments and cannot remain as leader of Atlantis, but Woolsey would have been the last person I would have suggested to take her place.

Keller has not impressed me at all. I like Jewel and have nothing against her but feel she was totally miscast for the role of chief CMO. What is the obsession with actors that IMO are way too young for the roles they are being given. We will now have this new captain who looks no older than my daughter and once again we are meant to believe she is a captain and has years of experience in the military... is there a shortage of good female actors in their thirties and forties...

I hope these new characters don't take away from the main team as this is what keeps me watching SGA. I want to see more team eps and not so many separate character eps. I'd like to see more emhpasis on the characters we already have and good meaty stories centered around each of them. They are the core of the show and IMO that is where the focus should be. I'd like to see more serious emotional attachments and please let Sheppard show some emotion.. not just those looks that JF does so well ..but give the man some lines that shows he has feelings, because no one could let all the crap he has endured roll off their back without some sort of emotional consequenses.

[Killdeer]

JM says that it was a scene filmed for Common Ground (which makes no sense considering the serious tone of CG but whatever). I didn't think he was joking, but maybe he was. I hope that he was. It's just that after the Sam/Keller conversation about how Zelenka follows women around, sniffing their hair, and how they both thought he was creepy...well the stealing women's shoes would seem to fit. I hope it was just a bad joke on JM's part. Otherwise, Zelenka might graduate to stealing panties and wearing red lipstick in Season 5.

That's just really really disturbing. Wow. I have never ever seen Zelenka in that light. I really hope they don't go that direction.

[Jackie]

This is how I see her. Nothing of substance whatsoever and it annoys me that she kidnaps Sheppard,, has him beaten up and almost killed but yet he seems to forgive all of this because she is hot. I wonder if Wallace had been a hot babe would Shep have sacrificed her to the Wraith..
I have no interest in seeing Larrin again. She was just fluff and I would much rather see Shep have a mature emotional liason with someone rather than cheesy immature fluff.

My only other concern is the addition of more characters to the mix. My main interest is Shep/Teyla/Ronan and McKay with a side helping of Lorne and Zelenka. These are the characters I want to see fleshed out. I have no interest in another team or Larrin or any other of the myriad of characters that we will be getting in season 5. I liked Carter in Command and really felt she was beginning to fit in nicely. I understand that AT has now other committments and cannot remain as leader of Atlantis, but Woolsey would have been the last person I would have suggested to take her place.

Keller has not impressed me at all. I like Jewel and have nothing against her but feel she was totally miscast for the role of chief CMO. What is the obsession with actors that IMO are way too young for the roles they are being given. We will now have this new captain who looks no older than my daughter and once again we are meant to believe she is a captain and has years of experience in the military... is there a shortage of good female actors in their thirties and forties...

I hope these new characters don't take away from the main team as this is what keeps me watching SGA. I want to see more team eps and not so many separate character eps. I'd like to see more emhpasis on the characters we already have and good meaty stories centered around each of them. They are the core of the show and IMO that is where the focus should be. I'd like to see more serious emotional attachments and please let Sheppard show some emotion.. not just those looks that JF does so well ..but give the man some lines that shows he has feelings, because no one could let all the crap he has endured roll off their back without some sort of emotional consequenses.

excellent points...the actresses are way to young for the roles they were given. A captain would be much older and keller would also be much older. Why would a kid be second in command of the infirmary? doesn't they have adults working there too?

As far as making the leader's role more believable...if the new leader was a retired general or colonel...then I could see having a civilian placed back in charge. One of the reason's given to us for offing weir was they wanted it to be a military command.

Can't help but wonder what qualifies for military command in tptb's eyes.