Why Colonel Sheppard Should Not Be In Command ~The Pro-Sam Thread~

[bluealien]

So what exactly did John originally plan to do once he'd hijacked the ship?

Escape !!

Hyperdrive to the closest gate and gate home?

Possibly.

No, he was gonna take it back to Atlantis and then shove the Travelers through a gate to some planet where they could get back home.

Another assumption on your part. How do you know what Shep intended to do with the Ship... the only reason he took it in the first place was to escape. Why would be want to take the ship from the Travelers... he thought he had come to an understanding with Larrin and that they were helping each other, so why would he want to steal the ship from her... and secondly when did Shep turn into a space pirate where he would willingly try and steal a ship that was not his, and which was a means to helping an entire race of people stay alive.

So a 3 second kiss in your eyes is a reason Sheppard shouldnt be in command, but stealing other races property is fine...

[prion]

Do you honestly believe Sheppard and co would have taken the Aurora class ship? Do you think the Atlantis expedition would have stolen it from the Travelers, who had found it? I don't. Therefore kissing or not has no relevance here. It was Larrin and co's ship. Maybe they might have tried to make a deal for it, but knowing Larrin needed it to house her people, no way would Sheppard take it from her - that's not the type of person he is. Instead they now have an ally with an Aurora class ship, access to technology etc... So the point about whether letting Larrin kiss Sheppard meant he lost the ship is rather a moot one, I think.

Also, sorry, where I come from one kiss doesn't equate falling into bed or anything from Desperate Housewives...

Never said that the Lanteans would steal the ship, but the writers could come up with a better way for the Travelers to keep the ship, rather than Shep let his guard down cuz he's not thinking with the right brains *cough* and I AM a Sheppard fan. This is a problem with how the writers perceive Sheppard. He was so smart in escaping, handling the ship, but flat on his ass when Larrin played the wounded doe. She'd already demonstrated the capability to be very ruthless, starting with his violent abduction.

John's main goal was to escape the whackos who abducted him. And the Lantean ship was his means. I'm sure if he did escape with it and brought it back, carter would probably be averse to giving it back seeing as how it was Lantean technology and a military asset and the IOA would say keep it and she would be behooved to follow orders

As for the kiss, etc., well, it's a slippery slope And alas, the writers (at least some of them) have him do stupid things like this.

[sherryw]

As I have nothing of real value to add here, I'm just going to say that I'm enjoying the debate. Carry on.

[KiLL3r]

i like to bold irrelevant words too


anyway sheppard isnt in command and im glad too. Id much rather see him out about in the galaxy killing wraith, forging alliances and sleeping with all the sexy alien broads with big boobs.

bring back weir! or give sam a haircut like in the sg1 days

[Mattathias2.0]

To get back on subject. Since when is Sheppard in command (it was Weir and now Carter), what does that have to do with this episode (I didn't see him command anybody, except himself), and what does all this have to do with Carter (she is in command!)?

This whole thread seems rather irrelevant to me.

Why don't we let it die a nice peaceful death with post 80 (not 42 either )?

[FallenAngelII]

To get back on subject. Since when is Sheppard in command (it was Weir and now Carter), what does that have to do with this episode (I didn't see him command anybody, except himself), and what does all this have to do with Carter (she is in command!)?

This whole thread seems rather irrelevant to me.

Why don't we let it die a nice peaceful death with post 80 (not 42 either )?

Until Sam's arrival, John was the Military Commander of Atlantis. I never claimed he was the leader of Atlantis.

Pegasus SGA, I see no point in reply to your posts anymore as you keep repeating the same things, forcing me to repeat the same things and your posts are riddled with "humour" which I at time find belittling and insulting. Never refer to me as "hon", again.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Until Sam's arrival, John was the Military Commander of Atlantis. I never claimed he was the leader of Atlantis.

Pegasus SGA, I see no point in reply to your posts anymore as you keep repeating the same things, forcing me to repeat the same things and your posts are riddled with "humour" which I at time find belittling and insulting. Never refer to me as "hon", again.

I have no problem with you not replying to me sweetie pie. I would like to say though that you are a great adversary, and I really enjoy debating with you on these topics. However, just because you won't reply to me, doesn't mean that I won't reply to your posts! Given my thoughts, I felt we covered a variety of areas relating to Shep's claimed slutty behaviour and command decisions. I certainly don't feel as if we're going round in circles. I'm sure there's lots more to discuss. Sorry about forcing you to reply, I guess I have been getting the whip out more this year to beat other posters. Thanks for letting me know, i'll try and use it more sparinigly in future. If you don't like how I post or debate, don't talk to me then, hon. I certainly won't take offence. Sometimes i'm too much of a woman for certain men to deal with.
And please, call me Peggy all my other friends do.
ETA: Force of habit, calling people hon. Note to self: Not everyone likes to feel the luff!

[joebags]

So a young man in his prime and sexy to boot isn't allowed to flirt? When has he ever put his team at risk, because of a woman? So on 3 occasions in 4 years is what you would define as continually putting himself into positions that could jespordise the team?

Just jumping in. When on duty, a military commanding officer shouldn't be flirting with anyone, and yes, Sheppard has put his team at risk, in fact in Sanctuary, he put the entire base at risk when he showed an alien their equipment and even said they didn't know much about the Ancient systems. If Chaya had been a spy, Atlantis would have been toast.

Men actually think about sex more than women. So being in the military means that once you enlist that actually castrate you, put you on meds and labotomise you so that the word or thought of sex is wiped from your existance?

Yeah, guys always think of sex, but in the military you are taught duty, honor, respect, and restraint. I think Sheppard missed the restraint part.

Establish to me that Shep has a dirty mind? Just because your mind is permanently in the gutter. It doesn't mean that everyone else's is, and if you go in to an ep with those preconceptions then that is what you will see.

There was an episode, No Man's Land I think, where Sheppard gets into a fix and says, "I wish I had listened to McKay", then we get a flashback where McKay and Zelenka are talking and Sheppard isn't listening because he is too busy making eyes at a pretty girl at the next table. I guess the writers thought it was cute, but Sheppard almost caused the mission to fail because of it. Yeah, its okay to look at a cute girl, but not when members of your team are trying to talk to you and explain a situation! The guy is just careless.

Of course no one else on Atlantis has dated, got pregnant, had sex in 4 years.... of course not.

Ya know, I don't care. I don't want to know who is making out with whomever, or who is preggers, or who is horny 24/7. I want to see a good adventure show. I want to see intelligent people behaving in a mature, intelligent manner. Why do people have to have things be "realistic"? Go watch Desperate Housewives or The OC, if you want sex and semi-realism! I prefer good scifi.

[blue-skyz]

There was an episode, No Man's Land I think, where Sheppard gets into a fix and says, "I wish I had listened to McKay", then we get a flashback where McKay and Zelenka are talking and Sheppard isn't listening because he is too busy making eyes at a pretty girl at the next table. I guess the writers thought it was cute, but Sheppard almost caused the mission to fail because of it. Yeah, its okay to look at a cute girl, but not when members of your team are trying to talk to you and explain a situation! The guy is just careless.

Sheppard was not on duty; he was eating with McKay and Zelenka. They were arguing with each other not explaining anything to him; then they turned to him for an opinion. He wasn’t paying attention. He could have been thinking about some new training exercise or how much fun he could have with a pile of C4 and a bunch of stumps. It doesn’t matter, he had not been part of the scientific conversation. As smart as he is, I don’t think he can be expected to remember every conversation around him.

[Starpass]

I think the main reason Amanda (Carter) was contracted to be in Command of Atlantis is for ratings. Having said that I personally like to have Carter as the "leader" of the expedition because I think it is in the best interests of the show.

Why Sheppard shouldn't be in command is because; if he was in Command of Atlantis he wouldn't be able to go off world very much, like when Colonel O'Neill became General O'Neill. Most of the time O'Neill was at Stargate Command.

With Carter coming in as the Commander, she can run the Base while Sheppard does what he does best; lead a team that goes off world to fight the fight.
edit: In the beginning of Travelers Sheppard was flying a uncloaked Jumper while alone in space...and why did he not pick up the Travelers ship on his sensors?

He makes too many mistakes to be the Commander of Atlantis.

[Mattathias2.0]

Until Sam's arrival, John was the Military Commander of Atlantis. I never claimed he was the leader of Atlantis.

I don't understand how you are saying this situation proves he isn't fit for command. In fact, I think it is completely the opposite.

1. He sent a signal that he knows if discovered, people from Earth (specifically Rodney) would be able to understand (the SOS signal),
2. Even though at first Larrin and Sheppard were enemies because of her tactics. When the Wraith arrived, they worked together so both of them would survive,
3. His speech to Larrin at the end proved he empathized with her people and situation. This would open up a possible alliance with the Travelers in the future.

[Mitchell82]

Then don't read it. I do not make threads to praise great parts of the show. No good discussion ever comes out of 29 post praising how well the expedition handled a certain situation. I create threads where meaningful discussion will arise.

Oh so those of us who like the show and particular episodes don't have meaningfull discussions?

She was untrustworthy and lying. Everything she'd told the expedition about herself and Athar were lies. She was untrustworthy because she was too healthy, as Carson pointed out.

To protect her people, it wasn't nefarious.

She didn't fall in love with him. She was infatuated, just like John was infatuated with her... and trusted every single one of her lies.

No he simply trusted her and she never lied she just never said she was an ascended Ancient trying to protect her people.

If this was Showtime, the nudity would've been frontal.

Only if the producers agreed which they wouldn't which is one of the reasons it is no longer on Showtime.

"They had a deep connection with each other"? O... K... They didn't insinuate they had sex?

(Not direct quotes)
Teer: I've seen in my visions you're the One.
John: The one what?
Teer: The one who leads us to Ascension.
John: Oh, I'd hoped you meant something else.
Teer: I saw that too. Tonight.
John: *smiles*

Yah... sooooo not having sex.

She said she had seen they would it doesnt mean they did, and even if they did it's not a big deal.

Rewatch Epiphany. Elizabeth gave Mike a chaste kiss. Elizabeth was also in a devoted relationship with Simon, so it wasn't some kind of slutty behaviour.

First it was Sunday and I didn't realize we were only looking for slutty behavior if that's the case then it's pointless to debate this.

A smart man would not have put himself in that position. John did wrong and paid for it because he let his libido and dirty mind get the best of him, despite her being a ruthless killer (should the need arise).

Yeah ok whatever.

[Mitchell82]

"Terrorist"?

"Troll"

[Pegasus_SGA]

Just jumping in. When on duty, a military commanding officer shouldn't be flirting with anyone, and yes, Sheppard has put his team at risk, in fact in Sanctuary, he put the entire base at risk when he showed an alien their equipment and even said they didn't know much about the Ancient systems. If Chaya had been a spy, Atlantis would have been toast.

Well, as someone who dealt with the military for years and we're talking 15 years plus, here. I'm going to disagree with you on this. Maybe they shouldn't be flirting, but trust me they do! In fact they flirt more than me whilst on duty, and that's tri nation hon. Army, Air Force and Navy. By showing her some equipment (that was not top secret) he was putting the base at risk... and Weir allowed him knowing this because.....?

Yeah, guys always think of sex, but in the military you are taught duty, honor, respect, and restraint. I think Sheppard missed the restraint part.

Yes, I agree, they're taught all of those things. Restraint? In what sense? You mean dating someone, flirting? You mean there's never been any conduct charges for fratenizing, or adultery, because one on duty they are taught honour, respect and restraint. I could tell you a few stories that would make your hair curl.

There was an episode, No Man's Land I think, where Sheppard gets into a fix and says, "I wish I had listened to McKay", then we get a flashback where McKay and Zelenka are talking and Sheppard isn't listening because he is too busy making eyes at a pretty girl at the next table. I guess the writers thought it was cute, but Sheppard almost caused the mission to fail because of it. Yeah, its okay to look at a cute girl, but not when members of your team are trying to talk to you and explain a situation! The guy is just careless.

I know the scene you mean, but the scientists were talking shop over luch, and when someone does that with me, i'd switch off to. Yes, maybe Shep should have paid attention, but if someone talks about something that doesn't interest you, would you pay attention or tune it out?


[/quote]Ya know, I don't care. I don't want to know who is making out with whomever, or who is preggers, or who is horny 24/7. I want to see a good adventure show. I want to see intelligent people behaving in a mature, intelligent manner. Why do people have to have things be "realistic"? Go watch Desperate Housewives or The OC, if you want sex and semi-realism! I prefer good scifi.[/quote]

Oh, I agree i'm not into any of that, I love good plots, good story's. I'm not into who's dating who, or who is horny that's not why I watch the show. I love seeing a story that enthralls me and keeps me watching, which SGA has in abundance. I don't like the girly girl type of programmes out there and certainly don't watch the OC or desperate housewives because it really doesn't interest me. SGA does. We're not talking about realism, though, we're talking about human interaction and human falliables. Shep is not perfect, he makes mistakes, for me it just makes it more believable and if he flirst, so what, as long as the ep i'm watching is not lovey dovey for 42 minutes, i'm sure I can cope with a few lines of innuendo. Why? Because it is realistic, and for an ep to work for me, there has to be a certain amount of believablilty. Are you saying you wouldn't flirt with a good looking guy/girl to get what you wanted?

I think the main reason Amanda (Carter) was contracted to be in Command of Atlantis is for ratings. Having said that I personally like to have Carter as the "leader" of the expedition because I think it is in the best interests of the show.

Why Sheppard shouldn't be in command is because; if he was in Command of Atlantis he wouldn't be able to go off world very much, like when Colonel O'Neill became General O'Neill. Most of the time O'Neill was at Stargate Command.

With Carter coming in as the Commander, she can run the Base while Sheppard does what he does best; lead a team that goes off world to fight the fight.
edit: In the beginning of Travelers Sheppard was flying a uncloaked Jumper while alone in space...and why did he not pick up the Travelers ship on his sensors?

He makes too many mistakes to be the Commander of Atlantis.

I wouldn't want him to be in command, and I don't think Sheppard would like it either to be honest. He prefers to be out there front and center, he's more a hands on rather than sit behind the desk kinda person. I honestly think if that happened he'd resign his commision.

"Troll"

[FallenAngelII]

I don't understand how you are saying this situation proves he isn't fit for command. In fact, I think it is completely the opposite.

Funny how you ignored every single point I brought up and instead brought up other points, as if they automatically absolve him from all other possible wrong-doings.

And what you quoted makes no sense. He was the military commander of Atlantis. And I'm quite glad he no longer is.

To protect her people, it wasn't nefarious.

Doesn't mean she didn't lie... and John believed every single lie (and ignored all of the strangeness, like her too-healthiness) without question. It does not matter if this particular liar happened to be, well, good. The military commander believed every single lie.

No he simply trusted her and she never lied she just never said she was an ascended Ancient trying to protect her people.

She lied about who she was, what the "weapon" was, who Athar was, why she went to Atlantis with John and she lead the Atlantis expedition on, thinking they had at least a miniscule chance of getting their hands on the "weapon", among other things.

She said she had seen they would it doesnt mean they did, and even if they did it's not a big deal.

John said "he hoped they'd do it" (paraphrasal), smiled when she said "Yes, i saw that too" and then he kinda moves towards her. Do you need more indication of that they did it?

This was a woman who was clearly delusional. She claims she's seen him as the one to take her virginity in her visions and that she's saved himself for him. Meanwhile, she also claims he'll Ascend with her. Clearly delusional.

First it was Sunday and I didn't realize we were only looking for slutty behavior if that's the case then it's pointless to debate this.

Sorry for mistyping. This thread was here to debate whether John is fit for command due to his history with alien women. Then some people claimed he's not the only one who's gotten tail in the past despite this not being true. Then someone brought up Simon.