Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

[SaberBlade]

Carter has more offworld experience than anyone at Atlantis and more combat experience offworld that anyone there. In that regards, it makes perfect sense for her to be there. She's a better choice than a random Airman or Marine who'd end up being a redshirt.

Carter had only gotten there, so it's not like there was some great potato crisis that needed to be sorted out like when Jack was in command. She was still unpacking so going offworld wouldn't have affected her duties. If Jack hadn't been promoted as a way to give RDA more free time, I could have seen Jack doing the same from time to time as a General.

As for Zelenka, he has the gene therefor he'd be needed to use the scanner (unless you want to risk the pilot) and if they came across a locked door like Rodney did, Carter wouldn't have a clue while Zelenka has the most experience with Wraith technology next to McKay.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Carter has more offworld experience than anyone at Atlantis and more combat experience offworld that anyone there. In that regards, it makes perfect sense for her to be there. She's a better choice than a random Airman or Marine who'd end up being a redshirt.

Carter had only gotten there, so it's not like there was some great potato crisis that needed to be sorted out like when Jack was in command. She was still unpacking so going offworld wouldn't have affected her duties. If Jack hadn't been promoted as a way to give RDA more free time, I could have seen Jack doing the same from time to time as a General.

As for Zelenka, he has the gene therefor he'd be needed to use the scanner (unless you want to risk the pilot) and if they came across a locked door like Rodney did, Carter wouldn't have a clue while Zelenka has the most experience with Wraith technology next to McKay.

One, Zelenka doesn't have the gene. Two, Joe Mallozzi has stated in tonight's blog entry that Zelenka was NOT carrying an Ancient scanner.

[Xaeden]

for Zelenka, he has the gene therefor he'd be needed to use the scanner (unless you want to risk the pilot) and if they came across a locked door like Rodney did, Carter wouldn't have a clue while Zelenka has the most experience with Wraith technology next to McKay.

He doesn't have the Ancient gene and he didn't use an Ancient scanner. There's another thread here which quotes Joe's blog where he explains that it's simply a device that detects energy signatures. But, yes, I agree that he had the most experience with Wraith technology so him being there could've helped as far as Sam knew. Also, Mckay and Zelenka are getting in the habit of volunteering to save each other. It was nice to see the continued character development for Zelenka who not too long ago would've been terrified in such a situation. People have never complained about both of them putting themselves in danger, but all the of the sudden Sam comes along and they shouldn't have had all 3 of them in danger? How is this any different than before when Sam was back in Sg-1 and would've been unable to replace them had they both gotten themselves killed?

[prion]

One, Zelenka doesn't have the gene. Two, Joe Mallozzi has stated in tonight's blog entry that Zelenka was NOT carrying an Ancient scanner.

Sure looks a lot like the Ancient scanner *cough*. Really, it does.

Carter has more offworld experience than anyone at Atlantis and more combat experience offworld that anyone there. In that regards, it makes perfect sense for her to be there. She's a better choice than a random Airman or Marine who'd end up being a redshirt.

She has offworld experience in the Milky Way, where the bad guys usually wanted to capture and enslave you, not have you for lunch. And if you're referring to the rescue mission, somone like Lorne has far more experience than Carter when it comes to the Wraith.

[elbo]

What I'd like to see addressed (which wasn't in this episode) is the scientists', etc. reaction to the city now being under *military* rule. It was civilian before, but not the military is calling the shots.

I'm sure that the scientific personal would have wanted a Rodney type in charge of the galactic operation or somone who have no clue about what she leads, not someone like that 'witch blonde' who harese the scientists all day for not being military, and has no background in science at all.

Chuck: Hello?
SGC: We'd like to speak to Colonel Carter.
Chuck: SHe's not here right now. She's on a rescue mission. Can I take a message?
SGC: Who's in charge?
Chuck: Hmm, that would be me ....

But what would have happen if Sheppard ex-wife would have called:

Chuck: Hello?
hot chick: Where is my ex?
Chuck: Is dinning with a Wraith.
hot chick: So he is cheating on me, again! I will suit the company ...

Really now, you are still forgeting that Atlantis is a military base on a alien planet in a different galaxy not a public company lead by red and anoying blouses and burecreats, where each member can be unavailabe at a specific time, because of: a mission, a alien infection/disease/posession, etc SLEEP, rescuing people, from which Rodney could an armaghedon in the enemy hands.

[prion]

I think that there is a confusion between a civil leadership and a military leadership. Those are quite different things. The ranking officer is participating often in missions, in which his/her military skills are required or needed, by the circuumstances, while the civil leader has really no purpose in a military mission.

To be specific, this was a important rescue mission, in which the flag team was captured, with a higher importance than what a major (ex. Lorne) can handle. Really if both Sheppard and Sam were available Sam would have never go off-world, but so is very logical like she had to lead the operation, instead of leting it to someone with much less experience.

Yes the risk existed and Sam is that character that take a risk when necesarey, not only speak on city wide about the bravery of others.

I think that's one reason they ditched Weir- they wanted a military person in charge because, well, frankly, they didn't know how to write for Weir, sad to say.

The thing is, the flagship team is out there, and it makes no sense to risk the leader as well. Lorne is very capable of extracting captured teams Still believe that Lorne's experience does outdo Carter's in terms of wraith situations, but the writers wanted Carter in the thick of things, so they did it.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

The base environment is not going to change. the only thing that will change is that the people under Carter will actually have to obey her, without question. Besides that, the base is no moe militarized than when Dr. Weir was in charge. Carter has much more of a scientist personality than a military personality ( as in something like Oneill, caldwell, ellis, any of the generals).
And really, Carter's experience in the Milky Way can never really help her in dealing with the Wraith. Now, because they will write the Asurans just like the MW Replicators, she obviously has experience there. Although they do act different and use different technology.

[elbo]

I think that's one reason they ditched Weir- they wanted a military person in charge because, well, frankly, they didn't know how to write for Weir, sad to say.

I very much agree with you. They were starting in repeating S1 plots in S3 second part. I couldn't imaging what Weir would have bring to S4 in the previous state ... What? A new situation of quarantine like in 'Hot Zone', going off-world to traduce something ancient, another alliance with the Wraith. The writers had so very little to work with and Weir was created such an isolated character, unimaginative (1-2 original ideas in 3 seasons) and frankly too bureacratic for a sci-fi show.

If this would have been Star Trek, a Weir like character would have had a top spot there, with all those inter-species relations (not leading the ship of course), but in this universe her character seem out of place. Really don't you think that is better to change a character rather than a universe?

The thing is, the flagship team is out there, and it makes no sense to risk the leader as well. Lorne is very capable of extracting captured teams Still believe that Lorne's experience does outdo Carter's in terms of wraith situations, but the writers wanted Carter in the thick of things, so they did it.

So you say ... but i didn't see Lorne once attempting a rescuing mission (writers foul), and i saw Carter succeding quite a few in SG1. And then let's shoot the writers for not giving Lorne more screen. If it will be after me i would wish a 10 characters main cast. But so, with Lorne still recurring and Sam main cast, is not logical like a such important resource like Sam to be wasted siting in the city even if she is the most qualified to run this one, again a exception with Sheppard captured.

And frankly i'm not very much fond of Lorne. I find him a very previsible character with very uninteresting lines there. I rather see Sam interacting with the Wraith (premiere) at some level. Being the leader now, it is also logical for her to see first hand the enemy, no? Is not like she lead the team off-word every day now.

[SaberBlade]

That's odd, I thought he was carrying the Ancient scanner therefor he had the gene. My bad on that one, sorry. Although it looked like a scanner, hell it even sounded like one. I think JM is just trying to cover up a goof to be honest but hey, who am I to disagree with a PTB.

[Briangate78]

So do people want her to be stuck behind a desk or office? I loved when Weir went on missions, like "Progeny", " The Return", and "Submerssion" Hate to see Carter stuck in that one position.

[Xaeden]

So you say ... but i didn't see Lorne once attempting a rescuing mission (writers foul), and i saw Carter succeding quite a few in SG1. And then let's shoot the writers for not giving Lorne more screen. If it will be after me i would wish a 10 characters main cast. But so, with Lorne still recurring and Sam main cast, is not logical like a such important resource like Sam to be wasted siting in the city even if she is the most qualified to run this one, again a exception with Sheppard captured.

Lorne was involved in the rescue mission for the season 2 episode, Condemmed. However, he did everything from a jumper. He also has his own team so he spends a bunch of time offworld. The actor's time is split between shooting Atlantis and The 4400 so he's not available much.

Anyway, I agree with you, I'm just pointing out where other's arguments are coming from. What I find most odd is that some people keep insisting on Major Lorne being the better choice even though they have no idea where he was this episode and so in all likelyhood if it wasn't Carter going through that gate it probably would've been someone we don't know since the actor was probably unavailable thus if they told us where the character was during this time it probably would've been offworld. I suspect some people are simply angry at the idea that Carter might be taking away a role that would've belonged to Lorne if Weir was still in charge.

As far as Lorne being the better choice, Ronan was leading the charge and was fully familar with the layout of the structure and fighting the Wraith so Carter was in good hands as far as dealing an unknown enemy and she is experienced in rescue ops, ops in general, and adapting to completely alien territory quickly. So I fail to see how Lorne would've been a better choice. We don't even know that he's ever been in a Wraith structure before so at best he's experienced in what...Shooting aliens that sometimes get up after you shoot them while firing weapons that stun you? Yeah, that's completely foreign to Carter...

[elbo]

So do people want her to be stuck behind a desk or office? I loved when Weir went on missions, like "Progeny", " The Return", and "Submerssion" Hate to see Carter stuck in that one position.

She had a similar incursion in an episode, in which in the same desire to help Sheppard, trapped in the sanctuary. And frankly she don't do much here, she was not vital to this mission. She just confirm what Teyla say about the ancient text and the rest of the episode is, just there.

[FallenAngelII]

Weir walked into their enemies base unarmed with no back up in order to beg for a nuclear bomb.

I'd say that was considerably more idiotic than Carter, a VERY experienced Colonel leading a rescue mission.

Well, they were royally screwed back then. Cut off from Earth (because they had no ZPM of their own), the Wraith on their doorstep. Elizabeth did the only thing she could do; negotiate for a Nuclear Bomb.

Of course, all it would do would have been to buy time, but it didn't really matter if she died then, did it? Not to mention that leadership of Atlantis had already been transfered to Ellis.

I find this strange. One of the biggest anti-sentiments against Carter was 'Mary-Sue character, little miss perfect, NEVER does anything wrong' and now it's 'She did something wrong! How stupid is she?! Idiot!'. As I have said numerous times now regarding the hypocrisy, the woman just can't win with some people.

It's... hypocritical? We hate her because she almost never does anything wrong (or are you saying her 10 years of SG-1 are riddled with wrongdoing?), not because she never does anything wrong. Even Sam's not that perfect.

It's not hypocritical of us to hate her for not doing things wrong and criticize her on the few occasions when she does things wrong.

And in case you haven't noticed, this thread is crawling with people who, much like yourself, are defending her doings in "Reunion". So either we're (the people criticizing her) are wrong or the Saint Carter fans are wrong because, no, she really did do something wrong (in which case, by your argument, my side would be hypocrites).

So what is it? We're the hypocrites or Sam did something wrong?

prion: Yeah, and what's up with those two Red Shirts? They didn't send in Lorne or Cadman for whatever reason and instead Sam sent herself (zero prior experience with the Wraith) and two Red Shirts we'd never seen before... plus Ronon and an unarmed Radek.

One of the reasons that Carter is such a good choice for leader is that she can go off-world. Seeing carter stuck in stargate ops would be a boring usage of her character. IMO, its one of the reasons they had such a hard time developing Weir.

George, Jack and Hank did quite well by only going offworld once or twice each during their multiple years as leaders Stargate Command.

This is why it's a bad idea to stick Sam as leader of Atlantis. They should've made her the leader of her own SGA-team or whatever. They can't just make her leader, only then realize, "Hey, the leader doesn't really go off world." and then insert random off worldedness for the sake of fanservice.

Well, it did not stop O'neill in Season 8 when he became head of the SGC. Also, if you remember the episode "Shades of Grey" when O'neill became commander of the rogue group. There was a simple rekon mission that O'neill did not need to go on according to his 2IC. O'neill made a comment to his 2IC, that if he was going to be commander he should be able to know how to do everything when the time came for a crisis.

Illogical fanservice does not make future illogical fanservice any less of illogical fanservice.

What does "Shades of Grey" have to do with anything? Those people were stupid.

That is a great point. She had 10 years of off world experience on the flag ship team, and even when in command, she still went off world. SO i see it more of her 'go out and get things done' mentality kicking in. SOmething as the new leader of atlantis she needs to ween herself off of.

I do not know what show you've been watching but Sam was never in command of anything on SG-1 besides possibly being co-commander of SG-1 and it would only be logical for the co-commander (and commander) to go off-world with their team.

Mmm, no the opposite actually. It shows she can get dirty with the rest of the troops and shakes the image of a REMF. I can guarantee you that having your boss working right next to you, getting their hands dirty in the same crap that you are is a very good thing for morale.
Can it happen all the time? No, of course not. Even Carter doesn't have that much micro. No one does.

Clear thinking and smart individuals would go "WTF" when their leader went off-world with zero prior experience with the Wraith to combat... the Wraith. With a team of four (+ 1 unarmed scientist) when they had already managed to capture Atlantis' flagship team!

I think that there is a confusion between a civil leadership and a military leadership. Those are quite different things. The ranking officer is participating often in missions, in which his/her military skills are required or needed, by the circuumstances, while the civil leader has really no purpose in a military mission.

Really? Have I been to assume that in the War in Iraq, the high rank military officials in charge do not go into the streets and combat insurgents? Or that the high ranking military leaders of USAF bases do not fly off in Blackhawk and whatever to shoot down enemy aircraft?

To be specific, this was a important rescue mission, in which the flag team was captured, with a higher importance than what a major (ex. Lorne) can handle. Really if both Sheppard and Sam were available Sam would have never go off-world, but so is very logical like she had to lead the operation, instead of leting it to someone with much less experience.

I'm sorry, but Major Lorne would've been able to handle it just fine, especially when you consider the fact that he has three years of experience with the Wraith while Sam has zero. As far as we know, until "Reunion", she had never even seen a Wraith before. Are you really arguing that Sam was more fit for the mission that Lorne?

Not to mention, again I must point out, her choice for her team for the mission. One jumper of randoms to draw off the Wraiths in darts (and each dart only contains, like, one Wraith, so it's not like they lost many of them) and then a team consisting of herself, a wounded Ronon, two Red Shirts and an unarmed scientist. Yes... spectacular.

Yes the risk existed and Sam is that character that take a risk when necesarey, not only speak on city wide about the bravery of others.

She was showing us rampant stupidity, not bravery. If my boss ran off headfirst into battle without any prior experience with the situation while a city was full of people with years of experience in said field and also chose the most ridiculous team to mount a rescue mission, I would question their sanity and my morale would sink to new lows. I would be afraid of the day when my leader finally snapped and ordered us all to do the macarena while darts rained on our parade.

Carter has more offworld experience than anyone at Atlantis and more combat experience offworld that anyone there. In that regards, it makes perfect sense for her to be there. She's a better choice than a random Airman or Marine who'd end up being a redshirt.

Off-world experience does not make you all-knowing. She's got off-world experience from the Milky Way. It's like saying that if I had logged 9999 hours of flight time, I should be the logical choice before X-person even if I had never even seen the craft we're supposed to fly while said person had had years of experience with said craft.

You do not automatically become the world's most competent fighter against the Wraith just because you just happened to have logged 10 years of gate travel. Gate travel does not mean anything besides Gate travel. And much like you shouldn't send John off to fight the Goa'uld on his first time ever encountering one when someone at the SGC with years of prior experience in the matter was around, you shouldn't send Sam to fight the Wraith without ever even seeing one first.

Carter had only gotten there, so it's not like there was some great potato crisis that needed to be sorted out like when Jack was in command. She was still unpacking so going offworld wouldn't have affected her duties. If Jack hadn't been promoted as a way to give RDA more free time, I could have seen Jack doing the same from time to time as a General.

Yes because let's assume nothing could possibly have turned up while Sam was away and that makes it all better.

As for Zelenka, he has the gene therefor he'd be needed to use the scanner (unless you want to risk the pilot) and if they came across a locked door like Rodney did, Carter wouldn't have a clue while Zelenka has the most experience with Wraith technology next to McKay.

As has already been stated, Radek does not have the gene. The therapy failed for him. As far as I know, Zelenka has never been on a Hive Ship trying to unlock a locked door. All he'd know about the procedure, he'd know from reports. And Sam is, if anything, literate. She could've read the same reports (and she should have in preparation for this operation).

[saberhagen83]

I think it's a little of both here. She has plenty of off-world experience and to me she pretty much set the tone for her command, she will be more direct not simply sit behind the desk if she could help out on the field. However I doubt we will see this often, which is good. But at the same time, I agree with what has been said in here. It was lack of millitary personell on the team, and that didn't make sense to me. That Zelenka was there wasn't to big of a reach, he is after all the best they have next to Rodney and could very well be needed, and to me that also builds on his character.

Not to mention that I have no idea if this was intended to be different at first, don't know if JM has said anything about that. If it was made from the very start to have Sam go, or was perhaps Lorne thought of first, or at least to be included? The thing is that they might not have had the chance to have him included, since I'm pretty sure he has other stuff on his plate as well and might simply have been written out when they couldn't use him in the ep.

[helenmagnus23]

HI

I think it's good sam going off world with the team she has plenty of feild expeariance and on sg-1 geenral hammond went off world so did jack and landry and evan in atlanis evan weirs gone off world she hasnt been stuck behined a desk .

I say it is good sam going off world from time to time