Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

[perfesserkai]

The bottom line of all this is that, logical or not, Carter made the decision to participate in the mission. I believe she had her reasons, and we may or may not ever find them out. However, also remember she's new at this "base" commander thing, having just been promoted from a front-line field unit. It's probably going to take a little while for her to adjust to the fact that going through the Stargate on missions is no longer a major part of her job description. Once she does, I expect her to do less gate travel in the Pegasus galaxy.

And actually, from how I understand things, based on the fact that she hasn't resigned her commission, and by the fact that she out-ranks Sheppard, Carter would be military commander of Atlantis. Right now she's in basically the same position as General Hammond was in at the SGC, but without the two nifty stars on her shoulder.

-kai

[Xaeden]

Stargate Command was a military operation, run by the military for the military (and by extension the United States and the rest of the world). The Atlantis Expedition is still a civilian operation, only now with a military leader. However, that does not mean Sam automatically took over as leader of the military as well. I have yet to hear anything stating that.

Of course she took over John's job. One cannot appoint a higher ranking military officer and then tell them to let the lower ranking officer keep running things the way he had been.

Jack and Landry only went offworld when the situation really required them specifically. Are you saying the situation reaaaally called for Sam? That the operation would've failed without her? Because, really, what did she do on that rescue op that was so special?

Jack really needed to go offworld to deal with Mayborne and Landry really needed to go off world to confront a prior? I don't think so.

He wasn't random, though. He was hand-picked by the IOA and sent over to take over. It didn't happen over night or over coffee. The IOA sat down, made a decision and then sent Ellis on his way.

I doubt it. Weir's issue is that the military took over whenever there was a problem and although she was on good terms with the IOA (and the president) originally so she could get them to put pressure of the military eventually the IOA began to cave and agree to these plans. The military had no plans on consulting with the IOA on making Caldwell the military leader over Sheppard and I doubt they bothered consulting with them when they decided to send their people, their technology, (remember the international community is still annoyed by the fact that the U.S. has not shared technology as agreed) and their ship over there.

And yes, obviously Ellis was the one to save the day last time, not Elizabeth (who negotiated an additional nuke), John, who piloted said nuke, the Daedalus who arrived in time to help and Rodney and Radek who came up with the cloak! No, Ellis did it all!

Nobody said he did everything, only that it worked out. I disagree with him removing Weir from power, but it wasn't like sending in someone who had no experience with Atlantis didn't help as you were originally suggesting would happen.

The Asurans are still free (or so I assume) to attack Atlantis, should they find out its current location. Or any of the other known and unknown enemies of Atlantis. Or let's say an asteroid is about to hit the city and destroy it.

Well now you're just being silly. The only way the Asurans would know about it is if that one the Wraith were holding got it out of them, but they had no way of knowing her would be there. And if they did find out about Atlantis, Carter being there wouldn't make a difference as Atlantis would still be destroyed. As far as an asteriod - Nobody there is capable of detecting it and shooting at it with drones? Please...

You do not take chances because "the odds of something happening to the city while I'm dead or injured are low".

If they were cut off from Earth, I'd agree. But they are not.

And opening up a wormhole capable of transporting matter drains the ZPM considerably. You do not wander off to play hero when the situation doesn't require you to as leader of Atlantis subjecting the city to risk. I mean, what if someone attacked while Sam was off on the rescue mission? Or if she were to be captured, how long before they call for a new leader?

Transporting matter uses up no more power than just keeping a wormhole active. However, there's the gate bridge for that. Also, I will say this one more time and slowly too: Nobody...is...going...to...attack...Atlantis....while...Carter...is...away ...as...they...have... long...range...sensors... that...will...alert...them...ahead...of...time. The asurans could get there a lot faster than the Wraith and possibly not be detected on approach, but again, if they attack the city, it's gone. Nothing anybody can do at this point would matter. That's why they are depending so heavily on keeping its location a secret. All Carter would do is help lead the evacuation which isn't a complicated job.

Because it was her job to go off-world? Just like it's Rodney's job to go off-world. It isn't anymore, though.

It's her job to do what she sees fit to protect Atlantis and her people. If she sees fit to go offworld then she is doing her job. If you want to think that's a mistake it's a different matter. However, my point was never that it wasn't her job to go off-world as a member of Sg-1. My point was that if she should've stuck to the back while her people went in first as a leader of Atlantis (which is what you said) than she should stuck to the back as a member of Sg-1 (like Rodney does) as she was far more important in that situation than she is in this. However if you don't have a problem with her rushing into battle then, what's your problem with her on the frontline here? She's a military officer with combat experience who has very important secondary jobs in both scenarios. I don't see the difference.

[Detox]

It's logical simply because it makes the episode enjoyable. It's a TV show, not real life, try to base your arguments on that.

[SGFerrit]

Not in one of these episodes did Elizabeth ever go off-world expecting to run into a military situation where her life would be on the line!

Weir walked into their enemies base unarmed with no back up in order to beg for a nuclear bomb.

I'd say that was considerably more idiotic than Carter, a VERY experienced Colonel leading a rescue mission.

I find this strange. One of the biggest anti-sentiments against Carter was 'Mary-Sue character, little miss perfect, NEVER does anything wrong' and now it's 'She did something wrong! How stupid is she?! Idiot!'. As I have said numerous times now regarding the hypocrisy, the woman just can't win with some people.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

It's logical simply because it makes the episode enjoyable. It's a TV show, not real life, try to base your arguments on that.

Plus it's just really awesome to see an original SG-1 team member in action again

[andromeda_dan]

Plus it's just really awesome to see an original SG-1 team member in action again

look forward to the epi with Tea'lc and Ronon

[mapsc]

From Joe's Blog:

Agent Dark writes: “Just curious as to why Carter wears an Atlantis expedition uniforms rather than her Air Force dress uniform?”

Answer: She wears an Atlantis uniform because she will be a member of the Atlantis possessing both military and civilian authority.

Mike

[Cautious Explorer]

It's logical simply because it makes the episode enjoyable. It's a TV show, not real life, try to base your arguments on that.

It may make the episode more enjoyable for you, but that doesn't make it logical. I will, however, agree with you that sometimes illogical actions are necessary to make a story interesting. My main complaint is more about how Carter's character was written/portrayed than with how illogical it was for her to go off-world. IMO it dulled down the action. Everything just looked too easy.

Weir walked into their enemies base unarmed with no back up in order to beg for a nuclear bomb.

I'd say that was considerably more idiotic than Carter, a VERY experienced Colonel leading a rescue mission.

Not really. Atlantis was in a desperate situation and Weir was in a position to use her talents to help. I don't have a problem with a leader going into a dangerous situation if there's a compelling reason.

In this case there was no reason for Carter to be considered best equipped to go on a rescue mission. It was a simple in and out mission that could have been accomplished by any military team on the base. No special abilities unique to Carter were required.

I find this strange. One of the biggest anti-sentiments against Carter was 'Mary-Sue character, little miss perfect, NEVER does anything wrong' and now it's 'She did something wrong! How stupid is she?! Idiot!'. As I have said numerous times now regarding the hypocrisy, the woman just can't win with some people.

Are you saying you think Carter was wrong here, therefor the anti-Carter people should be happy she made a mistake? Or are you saying she was right to go on the mission?

I think the hypocrisy would come into play if Carter made a bad judgment call, there were real repercussions, everything turned out badly and the anti-Carter people were still claiming she was portrayed as doing no wrong. If Carter makes what some people think is a bad call, everything goes swimmingly anyway and the outcome is perfect, then I think perhaps they have a valid point. Even her 'errors" have positive outcomes in that case. It's not so much about the characters actions as how the writers portray the results of those actions IMO.

[WingedPegasus]

Was it logical for Kirk/Picard/Janeway to go on away missions? No.
Did it stop them? No.

[marlinz360]

Cool now we just need Jack to come and mount a rescue mission with Carter
for example rescue Dr. Wier,,,,,

[prion]

It's illogical! If she was killed in the rescue mission together with Shep, Teyla, Ronon, Mckay and Zelenka who would be left to lead Atlantis - Chuck, Keller or Katie Brown???

Lorne!

We all know Carter's going to go off-world because the writers want her to (she's multifaceted, etc. etc. etc.). Honestly, should have waited till a few episodes. I know they wanted her in there to prove her worth, but realistically, she should ahve sent Lorne or anyone else FAMILIAR with Wraith ships, etc. She's never been in a wraith ship, while others have and have experience fighting them.

There's no logic here, just what the writers want, and apparently they also want Carter in all leather too

[geewillie86]

One of the reasons that Carter is such a good choice for leader is that she can go off-world. Seeing carter stuck in stargate ops would be a boring usage of her character. IMO, its one of the reasons they had such a hard time developing Weir.

None of the star trek captains ever stayed locked up in their ship because it would have been boring.

Now, if you're having trouble with cognitive dissonance over the stargate leaders doing unrealistic things like going off world, remember that it is a television show. It has a responsibility to entertain fans, and there's nothing interesting about a desk job.

[cavalierlwt]

Weir walked into their enemies base unarmed with no back up in order to beg for a nuclear bomb.

I'd say that was considerably more idiotic than Carter, a VERY experienced Colonel leading a rescue mission.

I find this strange. One of the biggest anti-sentiments against Carter was 'Mary-Sue character, little miss perfect, NEVER does anything wrong' and now it's 'She did something wrong! How stupid is she?! Idiot!'. As I have said numerous times now regarding the hypocrisy, the woman just can't win with some people.

I'm not anti-Carter at all, I just think it makes more sense to have the person in charge remain at the base and run things, that's why they're there. Carter's biggest contribution to Atlantis is her brains, her experience from ten years as part of SG-1. That asset is lost if Carter gets taken out on a routine mission. Not to mention you have McKay, Zelenka, and Carter all in the same battle? Heck, those three shouldn't be allowed to ride in the same puddlejumper for fear of one accident taking out 90% of Atlantis' brainpower.

BTW,for the people who keep saying it's just a show-- we're just having a friendly discussion, we ALL know its just show, no need to be insulting.

[Cautious Explorer]

One of the reasons that Carter is such a good choice for leader is that she can go off-world. Seeing carter stuck in stargate ops would be a boring usage of her character. IMO, its one of the reasons they had such a hard time developing Weir.

None of the star trek captains ever stayed locked up in their ship because it would have been boring.

Now, if you're having trouble with cognitive dissonance over the stargate leaders doing unrealistic things like going off world, remember that it is a television show. It has a responsibility to entertain fans, and there's nothing interesting about a desk job.

You're right. There is nothing interesting about a desk job. That's why we have the gate teams. And that's why SG-1 was the focus of their show rather than Hammond or Landry.

If Carter was brought to Atlantis to go on missions, she should have been put on a gate team. Thankfully they didn't do that. I like the team the way it is.

The main character in Star Trek was the ship's captain and a few members of the crew. Of course it would be boring if none of them ever left the ship. But Stargate is based around teams of people who regularly go through the gate. There's no real need to frequently send the city leader off-world.

[Xaeden]

Lorne!

We all know Carter's going to go off-world because the writers want her to (she's multifaceted, etc. etc. etc.). Honestly, should have waited till a few episodes. I know they wanted her in there to prove her worth, but realistically, she should ahve sent Lorne or anyone else FAMILIAR with Wraith ships, etc. She's never been in a wraith ship, while others have and have experience fighting them.

There's no logic here, just what the writers want, and apparently they also want Carter in all leather too

First of all she's already experienced in finding her way around in alien situations (for years people have turned to her to explain to them something she was just exposed to at the same time they were). Second, what better way to get to know what she's dealing with then to lead a mission against a target that she believes is easy to deal with? What if in the future she's trapped on a Wraith Hive ship due to no mistake of her own and her navigating her way around is the only way she is going to be able to free herself and save the day? You act like someone who is not familar with the enemy at this point should just avoid them which is silly.

Also, we don't know where Lorne was. As someone said earlier in the thread he could've been on his own offworld mission for all we know. Obviously they didn't have the actor available for this episode so they either had to ignore him or write in a line to explain why he couldn't take part in the mission - They chose to ignore him and leave it up to our own speculations.

You're right. There is nothing interesting about a desk job. That's why we have the gate teams. And that's why SG-1 was the focus of their show rather than Hammond or Landry.

If Carter was brought to Atlantis to go on missions, she should have been put on a gate team. Thankfully they didn't do that. I like the team the way it is.

The main character in Star Trek was the ship's captain and a few members of the crew. Of course it would be boring if none of them ever left the ship. But Stargate is based around teams of people who regularly go through the gate. There's no real need to frequently send the city leader off-world.

Sg-1 was based around teams who go off world - Atlantis still makes it the focal point of the show but it has always attempted to make the show more than just that. Also, Hammond and Landry didn't go off world because they were not fit to be part of a team. Thus for plot purposes the only way to see them in combat was when someone or something invaded the base. Then you'd see Hammond running around with a gun or whatever. Since Sam is perfectly fit for ops, however, they are able to bring her character to places where it would not have made sense for our Sg-1 generals to go. You're comparing apples or oranges or young fit military officers to old, fat, over the hill generals who have settled into adminstrative duties because that's the only place that they would be useful at this point.