Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Pretty Friday!

I'm just curious. Spoilers for Primum Movens.

Spoiler:

Why do you think John is behaving in a way that is "so not him?" Are you saying he is OOC or are you saying there is a good reason for him to be this way but hopefully something will happen to change him back again, and if so, change him back to what?

I ask because there are a number of times in canon when John has acted almost exactly this way: his anger at Rodney in Trinity, his closed-off reaction to his father's death, his distrust of Franibeth in GitM, his anger again at Rodney in Adrift. John does not trust easily and his experience with Mayel was the last straw that broke his ability to trust anyone. It will take a lot to heal that. Plus, he has lost Elizabeth time and time again and just can't go through that again, so he is protecting himself. That is very much in character, I think.

Agreed,

Spoiler:

John is really not out of character at all. We've seen him go dark, we've seen him go...contained, for lack of a better word. Like a tinderbox waiting for a spark to explode. He's been dragged out of his comfort zone into a place he really does not want to be, and he is fed up with what he sees as the universe constantly screwing him over.

[Sparky She-Demon]

I feel sorry for John too.

[ShipperWriter]

Here it is!



Now I'm off to make my Star Trek themed items for the weekend!

EDIT: How it is possible there is not one picture of the new movie cast in costume?!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

just posting to see what star trek rank i am this weekend. lol i'm a Captain nice!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

How it is possible there is not one picture of the new movie cast in costume?!

are you serious??? they did no promotional images?

[Luz]

I'm just curious. Spoilers for Primum Movens.

Spoiler:

Why do you think John is behaving in a way that is "so not him?" Are you saying he is OOC or are you saying there is a good reason for him to be this way but hopefully something will happen to change him back again, and if so, change him back to what?

I ask because there are a number of times in canon when John has acted almost exactly this way: his anger at Rodney in Trinity, his closed-off reaction to his father's death, his distrust of Franibeth in GitM, his anger again at Rodney in Adrift. John does not trust easily and his experience with Mayel was the last straw that broke his ability to trust anyone. It will take a lot to heal that. Plus, he has lost Elizabeth time and time again and just can't go through that again, so he is protecting himself. That is very much in character, I think.

Personally

Spoiler:

I think he's behaving exactly the way I'd expect him to behave under the circumstances. I've gone over thousands of "what if Elizabeth came back?" scenarios in my head. And the one constant is always Rodney's openness and Sheppard's mistrust.

Not because he doesn't want her back but because he's afraid of allowing himself to hope and going through the terrible loss, all over again. Also, he'd feel it's his duty to keep Atlantis safe as a way to honour her memory and her ideals. Even if it means keeping it safe from her.

[Southern Red]

Personally

Spoiler:

I think he's behaving exactly the way I'd expect him to behave under the circumstances. I've gone over thousands of "what if Elizabeth came back?" scenarios in my head. And the one constant is always Rodney's openness and Sheppard's mistrust.

Not because he doesn't want her back but because he's afraid of allowing himself to hope and going through the terrible loss, all over again. Also, he'd feel it's his duty to keep Atlantis safe as a way to honour her memory and her ideals. Even if it means keeping it safe from her.

You nailed it. That's exactly what we intended to show.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I'm just curious. Spoilers for Primum Movens.

Spoiler:

Why do you think John is behaving in a way that is "so not him?" Are you saying he is OOC or are you saying there is a good reason for him to be this way but hopefully something will happen to change him back again, and if so, change him back to what?

I ask because there are a number of times in canon when John has acted almost exactly this way: his anger at Rodney in Trinity, his closed-off reaction to his father's death, his distrust of Franibeth in GitM, his anger again at Rodney in Adrift. John does not trust easily and his experience with Mayel was the last straw that broke his ability to trust anyone. It will take a lot to heal that. Plus, he has lost Elizabeth time and time again and just can't go through that again, so he is protecting himself. That is very much in character, I think.

I am not saying

Spoiler:

he is OOC i am just saying he is different, he changed; he is more aggressive, even ruder. John always made the point of showing his rebellion, but always within the politeness parameters, he was never impolite, rude. He always showed his disagreement and his rebellion but he never totally crossed certain boundaries, and i think he is doing that now.

We all know John has a dark side, and lets just say that the dark side has been pretty active lately. Despite the façade he puts up, he feels things intensely. He is definitely a man that hides behind masks. Something drives him really hard and if he were to drop the mask, the full force of his personality would hurt those around him, and I think that’s what is happening to John now.

He seems to no longer care about anyone. Now it is like if he is expecting that everyone will turn on him just like Mayel did. His trust issues are higher than ever. I feel he is tired of all these situations, of all the people in which he places his trust to always double cross him.

Elizabeth was able to see through him, to read him; i mean she was able to figure out what was going on with him, even when he would not show it. And she was able to guide him on the right track. And I think that’s what is missing now, someone to show him that not everything is bad, not everything or everyone will turn against him. He needs someone that would understand him. No one now seems to be able to reach him or understand how he is feeling.

There are some good reasons for him to be feeling this way. One of them being the fact he lost Elizabeth and he didn’t have the chance to go and rescue her, not to mention he has lost Elizabeth more than once, and every time it happened, the pain probably increased.

In a way the reason of his behaviour now, towards Replicator Elizabeth, is because of that, he doesn’t want to have hope on getting her back to then suddenly lose her again. He is tired of that. He is pushing her back now, and even considering the hypothesis of eliminating her, because this way he will know for sure she is gone for good and once she is definitely gone, his pain will end or at least decrease.

Then the betrayal of Mayel; He was already a distrustful person, he had always been, but he decided to take a chance, he decided to risk something with her and she ended up betraying him. There are also guilt issues that might also be contributing for his behaviour. But all in all yes, he has more than good reasons to be acting the way he is acting, which doesn’t make it less disturbing.

And yes, i am hopeful that something will happen, or that someone will finally be able to reach him and will make him change back to the kind, friendly, easygoing person he was before. He needs someone to talk to, someone that would help him to carry the burden and guilt he has been carrying. He is reaching a point he no longer seems to be able to deal with all this issues, and that’s also one of the reasons why he is behaving the way he is. Closing himself to everyone and pushing them all away with his aggressiveness and rudeness.

I don’t believe he will completely change back to how he was before, all the things that happened to him in the Pegasus Galaxy and specially the loss of Elizabeth, all those experiences for sure taught him a few things or two. But i am hoping he will at least stop being so harsh on himself. He needs to see that not everything that happens wrongly is his fault. But right now, i think there isn’t anyone that can make him understand that.

Another thing I remembered and I am sorry but I have to be honest here. I remembered the jar, I was surprised but also a little bit disappointed because it was actually Teyla who had kept the jar, I mean don’t get me wrong, but I guess my Sparky heart wanted it to have been John. But I love your writing, Eri. Keep up with the good work.

[Southern Red]

I am not saying

Spoiler:

he is OOC i am just saying he is different, he changed; he is more aggressive, even ruder. John always made the point of showing his rebellion, but always within the politeness parameters, he was never impolite, rude. He always showed his disagreement and his rebellion but he never totally crossed certain boundaries, and i think he is doing that now.

We all know John has a dark side, and lets just say that the dark side has been pretty active lately. Despite the façade he puts up, he feels things intensely. He is definitely a man that hides behind masks. Something drives him really hard and if he were to drop the mask, the full force of his personality would hurt those around him, and I think that’s what is happening to John now.

He seems to no longer care about anyone. Now it is like if he is expecting that everyone will turn on him just like Mayel did. His trust issues are higher than ever. I feel he is tired of all these situations, of all the people in which he places his trust to always double cross him.

Elizabeth was able to see through him, to read him; i mean she was able to figure out what was going on with him, even when he would not show it. And she was able to guide him on the right track. And I think that’s what is missing now, someone to show him that not everything is bad, not everything or everyone will turn against him. He needs someone that would understand him. No one now seems to be able to reach him or understand how he is feeling.

There are some good reasons for him to be feeling this way. One of them being the fact he lost Elizabeth and he didn’t have the chance to go and rescue her, not to mention he has lost Elizabeth more than once, and every time it happened, the pain probably increased.

In a way the reason of his behaviour now, towards Replicator Elizabeth, is because of that, he doesn’t want to have hope on getting her back to then suddenly lose her again. He is tired of that. He is pushing her back now, and even considering the hypothesis of eliminating her, because this way he will know for sure she is gone for good and once she is definitely gone, his pain will end or at least decrease.

Then the betrayal of Mayel; He was already a distrustful person, he had always been, but he decided to take a chance, he decided to risk something with her and she ended up betraying him. There are also guilt issues that might also be contributing for his behaviour. But all in all yes, he has more than good reasons to be acting the way he is acting, which doesn’t make it less disturbing.

And yes, i am hopeful that something will happen, or that someone will finally be able to reach him and will make him change back to the kind, friendly, easygoing person he was before. He needs someone to talk to, someone that would help him to carry the burden and guilt he has been carrying. He is reaching a point he no longer seems to be able to deal with all this issues, and that’s also one of the reasons why he is behaving the way he is. Closing himself to everyone and pushing them all away with his aggressiveness and rudeness.

I don’t believe he will completely change back to how he was before, all the things that happened to him in the Pegasus Galaxy and specially the loss of Elizabeth, all those experiences for sure taught him a few things or two. But i am hoping he will at least stop being so harsh on himself. He needs to see that not everything that happens wrongly is his fault. But right now, i think there isn’t anyone that can make him understand that.

Another thing I remembered and I am sorry but I have to be honest here. I remembered the jar, I was surprised but also a little bit disappointed because it was actually Teyla who had kept the jar, I mean don’t get me wrong, but I guess my Sparky heart wanted it to have been John. But I love your writing, Eri. Keep up with the good work.

Okay, now I understand what you meant.

Spoiler:

You seem to understand canon John very well. Don't forget though that this is only the early part of PM Part I. John is going to be tested a whole bunch more before he finds any relief. In fact, I think I can promise that the poor boy has only begun to suffer. It's going to be a bumpy ride for all of them before the exciting conclusion.

[Eri13]

Here it is!



Now I'm off to make my Star Trek themed items for the weekend!

EDIT: How it is possible there is not one picture of the new movie cast in costume?!

Otay, it's reposted after a minor heart attack on my part but we'll attribute that to my stupidity. It looks lovely.

I am not saying

Spoiler:

he is OOC i am just saying he is different, he changed; he is more aggressive, even ruder. John always made the point of showing his rebellion, but always within the politeness parameters, he was never impolite, rude. He always showed his disagreement and his rebellion but he never totally crossed certain boundaries, and i think he is doing that now.

We all know John has a dark side, and lets just say that the dark side has been pretty active lately. Despite the façade he puts up, he feels things intensely. He is definitely a man that hides behind masks. Something drives him really hard and if he were to drop the mask, the full force of his personality would hurt those around him, and I think that’s what is happening to John now.

He seems to no longer care about anyone. Now it is like if he is expecting that everyone will turn on him just like Mayel did. His trust issues are higher than ever. I feel he is tired of all these situations, of all the people in which he places his trust to always double cross him.

Elizabeth was able to see through him, to read him; i mean she was able to figure out what was going on with him, even when he would not show it. And she was able to guide him on the right track. And I think that’s what is missing now, someone to show him that not everything is bad, not everything or everyone will turn against him. He needs someone that would understand him. No one now seems to be able to reach him or understand how he is feeling.

There are some good reasons for him to be feeling this way. One of them being the fact he lost Elizabeth and he didn’t have the chance to go and rescue her, not to mention he has lost Elizabeth more than once, and every time it happened, the pain probably increased.

In a way the reason of his behaviour now, towards Replicator Elizabeth, is because of that, he doesn’t want to have hope on getting her back to then suddenly lose her again. He is tired of that. He is pushing her back now, and even considering the hypothesis of eliminating her, because this way he will know for sure she is gone for good and once she is definitely gone, his pain will end or at least decrease.

Then the betrayal of Mayel; He was already a distrustful person, he had always been, but he decided to take a chance, he decided to risk something with her and she ended up betraying him. There are also guilt issues that might also be contributing for his behaviour. But all in all yes, he has more than good reasons to be acting the way he is acting, which doesn’t make it less disturbing.

And yes, i am hopeful that something will happen, or that someone will finally be able to reach him and will make him change back to the kind, friendly, easygoing person he was before. He needs someone to talk to, someone that would help him to carry the burden and guilt he has been carrying. He is reaching a point he no longer seems to be able to deal with all this issues, and that’s also one of the reasons why he is behaving the way he is. Closing himself to everyone and pushing them all away with his aggressiveness and rudeness.

I don’t believe he will completely change back to how he was before, all the things that happened to him in the Pegasus Galaxy and specially the loss of Elizabeth, all those experiences for sure taught him a few things or two. But i am hoping he will at least stop being so harsh on himself. He needs to see that not everything that happens wrongly is his fault. But right now, i think there isn’t anyone that can make him understand that.

Another thing I remembered and I am sorry but I have to be honest here. I remembered the jar, I was surprised but also a little bit disappointed because it was actually Teyla who had kept the jar, I mean don’t get me wrong, but I guess my Sparky heart wanted it to have been John. But I love your writing, Eri. Keep up with the good work.

Spoiler:

How's this for jaded? I didn't really even consider John as the pot keeper. I guess I just figured he'd never ask for it? Too awkward, with people asking why?

Or, Teyla just borrowed it from his bureau to show Elizabeth. Yeah, we'll keep it at that. That's what happened. She was actually panicking when Elizabeth was looking at it, wondering if Elizabeth would want to keep it because then she'd have to explain it to John why it was gone. Every once in a while Teyla would sneak in his room and pet it to feel close to old Athos. That's what she was referring to.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

Okay, now I understand what you meant.

Spoiler:

You seem to understand canon John very well. Don't forget though that this is only the early part of PM Part I. John is going to be tested a whole bunch more before he finds any relief. In fact, I think I can promise that the poor boy has only begun to suffer. It's going to be a bumpy ride for all of them before the exciting conclusion.

Spoiler:

Oh my gosh, poor John!!!!! He is going to be even more tested?! He will suffer even more?! Oh no!

Bring it on, the bumpy ride; I think I am ready for it.

Spoiler:

How's this for jaded? I didn't really even consider John as the pot keeper. I guess I just figured he'd never ask for it? Too awkward, with people asking why?

Or, Teyla just borrowed it from his bureau to show Elizabeth. Yeah, we'll keep it at that. That's what happened. She was actually panicking when Elizabeth was looking at it, wondering if Elizabeth would want to keep it because then she'd have to explain it to John why it was gone. Every once in a while Teyla would sneak in his room and pet it to feel close to old Athos. That's what she was referring to.

Spoiler:

In my mind I was actually thinking that probably he could have asked Teyla to show it to Elizabeth. He might have asked Teyla that in order for Replicator Elizabeth to feel more at home. But this is my Sparky heart talking.

[Southern Red]

Otay, it's reposted after a minor heart attack on my part but we'll attribute that to my stupidity. It looks lovely.

Spoiler:

How's this for jaded? I didn't really even consider John as the pot keeper. I guess I just figured he'd never ask for it? Too awkward, with people asking why?

Or, Teyla just borrowed it from his bureau to show Elizabeth. Yeah, we'll keep it at that. That's what happened. She was actually panicking when Elizabeth was looking at it, wondering if Elizabeth would want to keep it because then she'd have to explain it to John why it was gone. Every once in a while Teyla would sneak in his room and pet it to feel close to old Athos. That's what she was referring to.

*snort* What you talkin' 'bout?

Spoiler:

Teyla in John's room? I don't think so. John couldn't bear to look at it, so he put it into storage. Teyla went and found it there.

*nods*

[poundpuppy29]

[ShipperWriter]

are you serious??? they did no promotional images?

They did a few, but most of them have JJ Abrams in them or they're at the premieres in their dresses and suits.

I found a few that I can manip a bit.

Otay, it's reposted after a minor heart attack on my part but we'll attribute that to my stupidity. It looks lovely.

Thanks!

Spoiler:

How's this for jaded? I didn't really even consider John as the pot keeper. I guess I just figured he'd never ask for it? Too awkward, with people asking why?

In reality, that seems more logical.

Spoiler:

And I really like the idea of Teyla keeping the pot as a momento of her old home world. Call me sentimental.

[Luz]

*snort* what you talkin' 'bout?

Spoiler:

teyla in john's room? I don't think so. John couldn't bear to look at it, so he put it into storage. Teyla went and found it there.

*nods*

LOL

Spoiler:

You're really allergic to that other pairing.

About that scene, I thought Teyla had kept the pot because it reminded her of both Elizabeth and her home. Remember how sad she was in Lifeline when she was packing Elizabeth's stuff? She was on the verge of tears.