Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Brie]

Or The Real World, the entire episode. Nanites trying to take over and convince her Atlantis never existed, but their bond is so strong Elizabeth keeps feeling John's presence and he helps her escape.

These people obviously had no idea what they were doing when it came to relationships.

I always wondered about the moment when Elizabeth sees the shadow person in her bed, I mean it was creepy but I also can’t help but wonder if it also either was supposed to be that Elizabeth subconsciously imagining John in her bed, or possibly that John imagine himself in her bed or however you want to look at it, either way it was an interesting thing that it involved her bed.

[ShipperWriter]

Oh, I'm not surprised. R&J is much too advanced for public high school kids. Of course they can't comprehend it. They probably can barely write a sentence. Now let's see them write an essay on the movie. Sure, that will happen. *waves cane*

"Forrest Gump" looks like a two hour history lesson. Half these kids have no idea about Kennedy, WW2, the draft for the war. And because it doesn't affect them (or so they think), they don't care.

[/rant] for now.

[Nolamom]

you can always use Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" for a 3 minute history lesson

[Sparky She-Demon]

Apparently, I am an oddity when it comes to the younger generation. I love learning about history. Just because it's already happened, doesn't mean it can't affect us even now!

[Luz]

I always wondered about the moment when Elizabeth sees the shadow person in her bed, I mean it was creepy but I also can’t help but wonder if it also either was supposed to be that Elizabeth subconsciously imagining John in her bed, or possibly that John imagine himself in her bed or however you want to look at it, either way it was an interesting thing that it involved her bed.

Yeah, the bed thing is intriguing. Seeing his shadow behind curtains and doors makes sense since he was there looking at her and talking to Carson. But, why the bed? Maybe it was the nanites trying to show John as a threatening presence to make her fight him.

What I found interesting was that everyone was there at some point or another. Carson, Rodney, Teyla and Ronon were all there. However, John is the one who has a strong enough presence to break through the nanites.

[Brie]

Yeah, the bed thing is intriguing. Seeing his shadow behind curtains and doors makes sense since he was there looking at her and talking to Carson. But, why the bed? Maybe it was the nanites trying to show John as a threatening presence to make her fight him.

What I found interesting was that everyone was there at some point or another. Carson, Rodney, Teyla and Ronon were all there. However, John is the one who has a strong enough presence to break through the nanites.

There is another interesting thing about that episode that you also notice in ‘Conversion’ and that is that since Elizabeth (and John in ‘Conversion’) doesn’t have an significant other on Atlantis it should have been up to Carson as head of the medical staff to decided what should be done to help his patients however each of those time he turns to the other one to decided what to do, John in TRW and Elizabeth in ‘Conversion’, and not only that but the others also treat them as the spouse, I dunno, I mean I get that they all know that they are closed and it’s possible that they at some point might have decided that since they are both in charge that it should be up to the other one to make the decision that will be best for the expedition if the other one isn’t able to but that doesn’t explain why they were both treated the way they were or why they both reacted the way they were.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

On the subject of chemistry. I was making caps from Hot Zone and thinking of how tptb wanted Sheppard and Weir to have a more adversarial relationship, but the characters went somewhere else. In this episode they're at each other's throats the whole time, but the chemistry is so strong I'm either thinking "John is going to sleep in the doghouse tonight" or "they had to have some great make-up sex after this."

The effect was totally the opposite of the one TPTB were planning.

When John speaks with Elizabeth in Hot Zone, its very much him trying to explain that his only purpose was about making sure she was safe. And he admits that. He is driven by a natural instinct to protect someone he cares about on a different level.

I believe after their quarrel in Hot Zone, they became closer. I see their quarrel as kind of a test of strength to their relationship.

Oh, I'm pretty sure it was a factor in writing Weir off. They didn't know what to do with her, yeah right. Not like they brought in other characters to do the same things Weir could have done, nope.

They didn’t know what to do with her in a way that she wouldn’t be something that would be in the middle of their plans to put John with someone else. I still have a feeling that probably TPTB wrote Elizabeth off because of the Sparky effect.

I think that it sucks that TPTB were so dead set against Sparky and refused to see what they had right there (though with TPTBs track record when it comes to romance maybe it was best that they let it be) but it was still sad and I don’t think that I would be so against it if it wasn’t because TPTB made it so obvious that they thought that a romantic relationship between them were almost ridiculous and that it wasn’t even a remote possibility.

TPTB were terrible in what concerned romance, but they could at least have left things as they were, since they really didn’t want them together, but at least we would still be happy. Not as happy as if they would be/end up together, but at least not as sad and angry as I believe most of us were.

There were way to many times when things were said and done that definitely went against what TPTB said, that scene being one of them, and then it’s also in ‘Conversion’ when Caldwell said “You two are pretty close, aren't you?”, that line always made me wonder why TPTB had it there because it can almost only be viewed in one way *sigh*.

Or the scene where he carries her to the infirmary? I mean really? One of the most romantic gestures in history and it's not shippy? Anyone remember Officer and a Gentleman? Oh, but that was different. John just carried Elizabeth because...ummm...everyone in the infirmary was too busy to bring a gurney for the LEADER OF THE CITY. Right.

Or The Real World, the entire episode. Nanites trying to take over and convince her Atlantis never existed, but their bond is so strong Elizabeth keeps feeling John's presence and he helps her escape.

Has anyone ever made a list of all the shippy Sparky moments, the ones that were not supposed to be but that were quite obvious? Because I believe the list will be a long one.

What I found interesting was that everyone was there at some point or another. Carson, Rodney, Teyla and Ronon were all there. However, John is the one who has a strong enough presence to break through the nanites.

John has the ATA gene; it might have been something to do with it. I also believe John has a stronger presence in Elizabeth’s mind than all the others.

There is another interesting thing about that episode that you also notice in ‘Conversion’ and that is that since Elizabeth (and John in ‘Conversion’) doesn’t have an significant other on Atlantis it should have been up to Carson as head of the medical staff to decided what should be done to help his patients however each of those time he turns to the other one to decided what to do, John in TRW and Elizabeth in ‘Conversion’,

Especially when in “The Shrine” Keller, as the head of the medical staff, was the one that was making, or at least wanted to make, all the decisions in what concerned Rodney, well at least until his sister showed up. In this case it should have been Woolsey to make the decision then, I mean if we would compare the situations, then Woolsey would be as Elizabeth in this case.

[gateraid]

Re shippy scenes, I think the Hot Zone ones can be explained away quite easily. At that point, she still thought he was a cocky flyboy who had a penchant for getting into trouble and not following procedure, and he thought she was a bit naive ("can we negotiate with the wraith"), so it was in part a bit of a urinating match, in part a bit of protection over each other (I don't want you to die rather than OMG I can't let my secret crush get in trouble), and in part probably because IIRC it would have been the first time they'd both been in a danger situation together. That said, they made the argument personal.

"I have to and you know it" could have been just as easily said between Shep/Woolsey or Shep/Carter, or McKay/Sheppard, McKay/Weir. This moment is different to standing in the control room, monitoring the trouble spots and directing teams to their location - its allowing someone who is standing right in front of her to die, almost as if she we killing him herself. The expression on her face is a realisation of this. I don't see it as shippy at all. Now the hug in Seige III - that's a different story. Definitely shippy, because that was personal and unnecessary.

Misbegotten ("are you defending my honour") was top level ship. Sure, it's possible to say the lines without chemistry or ship connotations, but come on - who were they trying to kid when they wrote that? And what about sheppard carrying her to the infirmary in Echoes? Sure, those scenes were added to by the actors (the sideways glances by sheppard prior to her collapse, and the playful nature of the misbegotten scenes [all of them]) but they were scripted

[drewandian]

"I have to and you know it" could have been just as easily said between Shep/Woolsey or Shep/Carter, or McKay/Sheppard, McKay/Weir. This moment is different to standing in the control room, monitoring the trouble spots and directing teams to their location - its allowing someone who is standing right in front of her to die, almost as if she we killing him herself. The expression on her face is a realisation of this. I don't see it as shippy at all. Now the hug in Seige III - that's a different story. Definitely shippy, because that was personal and unnecessary.

I see what you're saying here BUT I think what made the whole thing shippy was the intensity in their stare and the unspoken communication they had after he said it...yeah, she knows she's sending a member of her team to die and the look was partly the realization of that. But I think it was a realization, too, of what this particular member of her team was becoming to mean to her and it was being echoed in his look.

Or I could just be a hopeless romantic doped up on too many allergy meds and not enough sleep

[Southern Red]

Here's a pretty good list of Sparky moments from an old thread.

[ShipperWriter]

I got home late and had a mountain of work to do, so I'm popping in before I head to bed.

you can always use Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" for a 3 minute history lesson

Love that song. I will recommend it for the next time, so long as I don't have to interpret it. My hand just starts hurting at the thought of it.

Apparently, I am an oddity when it comes to the younger generation. I love learning about history. Just because it's already happened, doesn't mean it can't affect us even now!

I do too. I had this amazing book when I was a kid: "Everything Your 3rd Grader Needs To Know". Learned so much before I even started public school.

Anyhow, have a good night, everybody!

[Scary Kitty]

Maybe that's why they backed off. TPTB were afraid even more of us would starts shipping them and ruin their future plans. Morons.

*snorts* Brings a whole new meaning to the old adage, "where there's smoke, there's fire," doesn't it? TPTW kept saying 'oh no, there's nothing there,' but all they did was fan the flames even more.

I always wondered about the moment when Elizabeth sees the shadow person in her bed, I mean it was creepy but I also can’t help but wonder if it also either was supposed to be that Elizabeth subconsciously imagining John in her bed, or possibly that John imagine himself in her bed or however you want to look at it, either way it was an interesting thing that it involved her bed.

Speaking of beds, isn't it interesting how many scenes the two of them shared in "intimate" places, specifically bedrooms? Let's see, there's the War and Peace scene in John's quarters in "Home," Elizabeth going to see John TWICE in "Conversion," and John visiting Elizabeth in her quarters in "The Return Part 1." Gee, you'd think that if TPTW didn't want us to think about shipping John and Elizabeth with each other, they would've avoided any scenes between them set in a bedroom.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

you can always use Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" for a 3 minute history lesson

speaking of We didn't start the fire, i thought that song sounded familiar and i found this in my stargate youtube folder

[Nolamom]

[Nolamom]