Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[ShipperWriter]

I have nothing of importance to add to this discussion because A) I'm brain dead and B) I think y'all pretty much said everything that I would think of!

OT:

Spoiler:

I have been holding off on going to the dentist for a crown for three months now. Grr. Now SR & JT's convo has inspired feelings of guilt for not going.

[Brie]

I would not say I was a fan of "team episodes" but rather Atlantis family episodes. Eps where the team went to some medieval village and shot things were boring to me. I much preferred episodes that involve all of Atlantis, not just the core team. How some people want eps with only the team is another throwback to SG-1 in my mind. To me, Atlantis was not an SG-1 clone originally. It was more about the entire expedition and the lost city of Atlantis. The later seasons tried to go back to the SG-1 formula because TPTW loved SG-1 much more than they ever cared for Atlantis.

Oh, I think that was me and I just wanted to drop by quickly to add that when I said team I did mean the whole expedition (since Elizabeth was my favorite character it was usually in those episodes where we got to see more of her) and not just team Shep, but it was my fault for writing that, I don’t think that I really thought it through before posting

[ShipperWriter]

GUP even showed that John could work with the scientists and that he knew their names. I thought it was neat that we got to see what he was capable of without Rodney. It just pointed up how good John was in dealing with Rodney and how he could goad him into coming up with the perfect solution. Plus, the chocolate and peanut butter scene is just perfection.

Good points all. I just have a few general comments. I think a lot depends on who is your favorite character. I like John. I make no bones about it, and it's not just some fangirly OMGHE'SHAWT! thing. Though I admit to a bit of that also. Even though it makes me squicky when I occasionally wander into some of the threads or areas on LJ that only seem to see him as a collection of body parts. If someone criticizes John or Joe, I get my back up. But that doesn't mean I don't like all the others too, some more than others and some could disappear forever and I wouldn't blink, but I try not to express that opinion in public.

But if there is a discussion of John's fear of intimacy or his social awkwardness or his rash behavior, I'm right there to try to explain it. However, I don't see that as bashing.

Let's face it, after S3 the total focus of these writers was McKay and/or Keller. They didn't think for a second about how they could give anyone else more time. It was all "Okay, enough about McKay. Now let's talk about how Keller feels about McKay." or something to that effect. Keller even took Teyla's place as the damsel in distress, and instead of focusing on Teyla's new motherhood and her people, they just ignored her. Because, I believe, they were saving her to spring Sheyla on us and befuddle the entire viewing audience.

On Sam, the biggest remaining question is why they didn't write for Sam but continued to write for Weir and have Sam deliver the lines. I liked her in S&R too except for the leather suit and how she let John steamroll her. She was good in directing the rescue mission. I can't see Woolsey doing that. However, you're right. Now that I've adjusted to him, I can't see Woolsey leaving and anyone else, including Weir, taking that job. Mostly because I don't want her to be John's boss again, but still, he did a fine job. I can also see Daniel Jackson fitting into the show, but would rather have Weir come back and take a similar role.

I loved John's scenes in GUP. And I was surprised and disappointed that they didn't have more science-cy scenes with Sam after she came on the show, given that technobabble is her forte. It did feel much more like they were still writing the leader of the expedition to be Elizabeth and not the colonel that got transferred from the SGC.

And speaking of Keller, I just popped into the S4 Promo Gallery (home of the infamous floating on the ground photos) and they have 7 photos of Keller, one of which is with Carter, whereas they only have 3 of the leading actor, one of which is a floating pic. I'd say priorities changed.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

I have nothing of importance to add to this discussion because A) I'm brain dead and B) I think y'all pretty much said everything that I would think of!

This. But there's a couple of things that stuck out for me...

character-wise, Woolsey turned out to be a surprisingly good fit. Props to RP I'm amazed - it seemed like they went out of their way to incorporate Woolsey compared to with Carter

And one has to wonder how that ended up happening, considering how much fuss TPTW made about how awesome Carter was going to be on SGA.

GUP even showed that John could work with the scientists and that he knew their names. I thought it was neat that we got to see what he was capable of without Rodney. It just pointed up how good John was in dealing with Rodney and how he could goad him into coming up with the perfect solution. Plus, the chocolate and peanut butter scene is just perfection.

Absolutely! And it's moments like those that make one think that he could have actually been a good expedition commander after they lost Elizabeth. Except, you know, he doesn't want to be The Man, because then who would he rage against?

On Sam, the biggest remaining question is why they didn't write for Sam but continued to write for Weir and have Sam deliver the lines. I liked her in S&R too except for the leather suit and how she let John steamroll her. She was good in directing the rescue mission. I can't see Woolsey doing that. However, you're right. Now that I've adjusted to him, I can't see Woolsey leaving and anyone else, including Weir, taking that job. Mostly because I don't want her to be John's boss again, but still, he did a fine job. I can also see Daniel Jackson fitting into the show, but would rather have Weir come back and take a similar role.

Me neither. And I also agree with you about Daniel. I can certainly understand why some would like to see him on Atlantis considering how much he was itching to go, and I even agree with it to an extent, but there would be overlap between Daniel and Elizabeth, much like the overlap gateraid pointed out between Teyla and Ronon. Though I'm sure a skilled writer could successfully tweak things so that both characters could fit.

I loved John's scenes in GUP. And I was surprised and disappointed that they didn't have more science-cy scenes with Sam after she came on the show, given that technobabble is her forte. It did feel much more like they were still writing the leader of the expedition to be Elizabeth and not the colonel that got transferred from the SGC.

They didn't give Carter more sciency-technobabble scenes so as to not steal McKay's thunder.

And speaking of Keller, I just popped into the S4 Promo Gallery (home of the infamous floating on the ground photos) and they have 7 photos of Keller, one of which is with Carter, whereas they only have 3 of the leading actor, one of which is a floating pic. I'd say priorities changed.

Actually, both S4 and 5 had the miraculous floating on air without casting a shadow photos... though 5's seem to get more attention.

And I'd say priorities changed even before S4. If they hadn't, we'd still have Elizabeth and Carson.

[Southern Red]

I have nothing of importance to add to this discussion because A) I'm brain dead and B) I think y'all pretty much said everything that I would think of!

OT:

Spoiler:

I have been holding off on going to the dentist for a crown for three months now. Grr. Now SR & JT's convo has inspired feelings of guilt for not going.

OT:

Spoiler:

*pokes you* You better get that done before the crown turns into a crown plus a root canal. Just being your mama.

I loved John's scenes in GUP. And I was surprised and disappointed that they didn't have more science-cy scenes with Sam after she came on the show, given that technobabble is her forte. It did feel much more like they were still writing the leader of the expedition to be Elizabeth and not the colonel that got transferred from the SGC.

IKR, I was expecting dueling technobabble between Sam and Rodney. That would have been kinda fun. Were they afraid of making it look shippy and thus diminishing McKeller? Probably.

And speaking of Keller, I just popped into the S4 Promo Gallery (home of the infamous floating on the ground photos) and they have 7 photos of Keller, one of which is with Carter, whereas they only have 3 of the leading actor, one of which is a floating pic. I'd say priorities changed.

And not to mention not doing a special feature on the lead actor on the DVDs until S5. Yeah, I know he's notoriously stingy with his off time, but that's just inexcusable.

[Brie]

To be fair, Carter was the most qualified, as she was the only one with history of being in command. It's possible Weir might have had an embassy posting at some point but we don't know that. Elizabeth's only qualification was that President Hayes 'thought' she was the right person to head the revitalisation of the SGC.

The only time Carter was in command was in season 8 when she was the commander of SG-1, and I might have forgotten something but I don’t recall any other time that she was in command over anything full time before Atlantis so I wouldn’t say that she would be the most qualified or at least over anyone else. But I haven’t been paying that much attention to Carter so it’s very possible that I missed something.

I’d go as far as to say that when it comes to leading an international expedition such as the one going to Atlantis then Elizabeth with her diplomatic background (but also her linguistic background) made her as qualified as anyone set to lead an expedition to another galaxy, mostly because we get to hear that she have an impressive resume when it comes to difficult negotiations, and while the SGC might benefit more from an American military leader since most of those who work there are connected to the US military but Atlantis was always different, and Elizabeth was asked to lead the SGC basically because they wanted her to be a more neutral public figure once the Stargate program became public and they didn’t think a US military general would cut it with the rest of the world which is understandable. Now I don’t think that there’s a person on earth who is truly qualified to lead either the SGC or Atlantis but it’s all about what kind of past skills you have and how you may use them but also how quick you learn and are able to adapt.

And on a side note, I’m with SR, when (yes, I say when) Elizabeth would come back then I would want her to not get back into command (ok, so maybe the IOA wouldn’t have allowed it anyway) but for me it’s just because I think that he skills would do more good out in the field, especially since the people on Atlantis obviously have already benefitted by her negotiating skills and it’s been used to help them all get along.

[Scary Kitty]

IKR, I was expecting dueling technobabble between Sam and Rodney. That would have been kinda fun. Were they afraid of making it look shippy and thus diminishing McKeller? Probably.

*snorts*

And not to mention not doing a special feature on the lead actor on the DVDs until S5. Yeah, I know he's notoriously stingy with his off time, but that's just inexcusable.

And surely if it was a scheduling thing, they could have found a way to work it in a little bit at a time on days he was already at the studio to shoot for an episode?

[ShipperWriter]

Absolutely! And it's moments like those that make one think that he could have actually been a good expedition commander after they lost Elizabeth. Except, you know, he doesn't want to be The Man, because then who would he rage against?

Now, there's an AU that needs to be written.

They didn't give Carter more sciency-technobabble scenes so as to not steal McKay's thunder.

*snorts* Whatever. Carter is the reason McKay does technobabble on Atlantis.

... And I've totally lost my thought. Moving on:

Actually, both S4 and 5 had the miraculous floating on air without casting a shadow photos... though 5's seem to get more attention.

Oh God. Can't believe I managed to forget about those. *buries head in hands*

And I'd say priorities changed even before S4. If they hadn't, we'd still have Elizabeth and Carson.

*wibbles*

Spoiler:

We still do!

OT:

Spoiler:

*pokes you* You better get that done before the crown turns into a crown plus a root canal. Just being your mama.

OT:

Spoiler:

I know, I know. I have a temporary crown that's been holding up extremely well, and I reason, why mess with a good thing?

I'll go soon.

IKR, I was expecting dueling technobabble between Sam and Rodney. That would have been kinda fun. Were they afraid of making it look shippy and thus diminishing McKeller? Probably.

And not to mention not doing a special feature on the lead actor on the DVDs until S5. Yeah, I know he's notoriously stingy with his off time, but that's just inexcusable.

Double fail.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I would not say I was a fan of "team episodes" but rather Atlantis family episodes.

Oh! When I say “team episodes” I don’t mean John’s team in particular, I mean in a way as all of them working as a team, John’s team plus Carson, Elizabeth, Zelenka, Lorne. For example like in Coup d’etat, The Siege, The Brotherhood and so on.

The later seasons tried to go back to the SG-1 formula because TPTW loved SG-1 much more than they ever cared for Atlantis.

ETA - and the ultimate insult to me was how much of the Atlantis finale, Enemy at the Gate, was in the SGC with SG-1 characters. That just made it very clear to me what Mallozzi, Mullie, and the others really thought about Atlantis.

They clearly always showed which one was their favourite. Maybe they shouldn’t have created Atlantis then.

To be fair, Carter was the most qualified, as she was the only one with history of being in command.

character-wise, Woolsey turned out to be a surprisingly good fit. Props to RP I'm amazed - it seemed like they went out of their way to incorporate Woolsey compared to with Carter

Carter might have had more experience in command, but where was she when her command was needed? I believe Woolsey has made more command decisions than Carter. Besides I don’t think a military leader/commander is the best leader to lead an expedition of scientists, civilians from different countries. And that’s where Elizabeth fits perfectly. She had a vast knowledge of many different cultures since she worked as a diplomat, negotiating treaties in more than one country, plus her linguistic skills, making her the best person to be able to handle such a group, not to mention the possibility of having to negotiate with other cultures in the Pegasus galaxy as well, although I think the main purpose of the expedition was to study and learn from Atlantis, I think it was never their real intention to go on exploratory adventures around the galaxy.

She was good in directing the rescue mission. I can't see Woolsey doing that. However, you're right. Now that I've adjusted to him, I can't see Woolsey leaving and anyone else, including Weir, taking that job. Mostly because I don't want her to be John's boss again, but still, he did a fine job. I can also see Daniel Jackson fitting into the show, but would rather have Weir come back and take a similar role.

Oh you are so right, Woolsey is definitely the right leader for Atlantis now. I think I would not be able to see Elizabeth as the leader now. Nor I think she would have wanted that. After Elizabeth’s return she would for sure embrace things differently, she has now a whole new knowledge and would probably prefer to go travel around the galaxy in search of other cultures herself than staying behind doing administrative work. And after the way they treated her in “First Strike”, I think she understood perfectly well that they don’t want her in command of Atlantis anymore. Oh yeah, and most importantly, I also don’t want her as John’s boss anymore! I would love to see Elizabeth having a similar role to Daniel, too.

[poundpuppy29]

[Lythisrose]

I don't quite know how to take this, because I thought she was interesting already, but at least people are still thinking of Elizabeth:
She made #3 on io9's 10 Characters Who Got More Interesting After They Died list
http://io9.com/10-characters-who-got...ref_map=%5B%5D

[JT-2]

Just a quick pop-in. Gotta post quickly before my sleeping pills kick in.

I don't know if any of you remember the videos created by GW user earthling under youtube name metatr2n? The first videos were 30 second recaps of the episodes and I know several of you had posted on that thread at the time.

Anyway, there have been a whole series of videos that have been posted that seem to be creating an alternate version of events. Many of the videos have a Sparky slant. This one is very blatant though, and very well done:

[Southern Red]

Just a quick pop-in. Gotta post quickly before my sleeping pills kick in.

I don't know if any of you remember the videos created by GW user earthling under youtube name metatr2n? The first videos were 30 second recaps of the episodes and I know several of you had posted on that thread at the time.

Anyway, there have been a whole series of videos that have been posted that seem to be creating an alternate version of events. Many of the videos have a Sparky slant. This one is very blatant though, and very well done:

OMG! I can't even... I just...OMG. *goes to rewatch*

[JT-2]

OMG! I can't even... I just...OMG. *goes to rewatch*

I know, right??


Oh, and Lythisrose, thanks for posting that article!

[Luz]

Just a quick pop-in. Gotta post quickly before my sleeping pills kick in.

I don't know if any of you remember the videos created by GW user earthling under youtube name metatr2n? The first videos were 30 second recaps of the episodes and I know several of you had posted on that thread at the time.

Anyway, there have been a whole series of videos that have been posted that seem to be creating an alternate version of events. Many of the videos have a Sparky slant. This one is very blatant though, and very well done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-ydIK5kwNQ

This is amazing, thanks for the rec.