Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

How do I get there?

Are you really this helpless? It's on GW. Search and find it. That's what the rest of us did.

[Sparky She-Demon]

I was just asking a simple question!

[Scary Kitty]

I was just asking a simple question!

And it's a simple answer. Learn how to search and find it yourself like the rest of us did. Please stop treating us like we're nothing more than your personal help desk.

[MentallyUnstableFox]

Oh for the love of....Did this come out of the same violet foreigner that suggested Weir ordered the strike on the Asurans? Don't get me wrong, I understand the Weir criticisms (and in some cases agree) but there's no need to just make stuff up. grrrr

Do you mean that someone thought Weir ordered the strike which she said, numerous times, that she was against? That's...definitely a...possibility. Sure

Grrr again. DG is just LAZY WRITING. If they'd decided that they wanted to get rid of Heightmeyer (I doubt that was the case, I imagine the creative process followed similar lines to the one in Sunday - "lets do something to raise the stakes!!!") then by all means find a way to kill her off. But don't make it the stupidest way possible. What point did it actually serve? If, at the end of the episode, it was revealed that 3/4 of it was actually in John's head, it would still have been just as effective. And it might have even allowed a deeper insight into John's personality. But no, lets kill off the least likely character to come into harms way (heck, even Elizabeth actually got herself into situations involving guns and explosions) in the most facepalming way possible. And then have the two characters who had virtually no interaction with her be the most cut up about it. Fail. Fail, fail, fail.

Amen!

If you're a Voyager fan, you might remember the scene where the Doctor illustrates that whilst he's just a hologram (and can materialise/dematerialise) he can still pick things up, can still feel things, and is still solid. He proves this by slapping Paris to illustrate he is solid, then punches a few buttons, and when Paris slaps him back Paris's hand passes right through him. Of course the logic of this scene is undone because somehow, whilst in his 'fluid' state, he can press the buttons to make himself solid again.

Or, if you want a cruder analogy, Janeway gets the hots for a hologram. She makes him a foot taller and deletes his wife. That was the extent of it, but I'm sure you can probably imagine what other alterations could be made.

Ah, yes, I remember these well. There's one with a similar plot in which the doc gets all heartbrokey and it's just so heartbrea--anyway, that was OT...where were we?

Ah, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).

Anyway, I need to go decide between feeding a fancition bunny, or an original fiction bunny....

[ShipperWriter]

I was thinking about the woobie face in GitM (which I will confess I haven't seen yet but I've seen enough caps and read the transcript) and imo I think it was an improvisation on Joe's part...we all know he wasn't pleased with how Torri was treated towards the end and I wouldn't put it past him to make that displeasure known in any means possible

I wouldn't put it past him either... his way of rebelling against TPTW.

I'd like to think so as well...

Oh for the love of....Did this come out of the same violet foreigner that suggested Weir ordered the strike on the Asurans? Don't get me wrong, I understand the Weir criticisms (and in some cases agree) but there's no need to just make stuff up. grrrr

Moving on

What SR said. But they're not making it up. They're reading between the lines. ROFL

Ah, back to the Tales from the AU. Those AU caps were some of my best work

I'm not sure if I saw yours or not, but I remember a few times when we'd get going on a similar tangent and I'd be laughing so hard at the moronicity (it's not a word, but I'm using it anyway) that I'd be crying. Fun, indeed.

Grrr again. DG is just LAZY WRITING. If they'd decided that they wanted to get rid of Heightmeyer (I doubt that was the case, I imagine the creative process followed similar lines to the one in Sunday - "lets do something to raise the stakes!!!") then by all means find a way to kill her off. But don't make it the stupidest way possible. What point did it actually serve? If, at the end of the episode, it was revealed that 3/4 of it was actually in John's head, it would still have been just as effective. And it might have even allowed a deeper insight into John's personality. But no, lets kill off the least likely character to come into harms way (heck, even Elizabeth actually got herself into situations involving guns and explosions) in the most facepalming way possible. And then have the two characters who had virtually no interaction with her be the most cut up about it. Fail. Fail, fail, fail.

That would've been awesome if most of it had been in John's head. Like, say, everything from FS onwards. LOL

And seriously. How many times did John even talk to Kate during the time she was on? FH has the answer, I'm sure...

Wow, I didn't realise JM had said that about Carl. I've started to wonder now whether, with the benefit of hindsight and how Binder opined that he loved writing McKeller and Keller, if he wasn't hedging his bets early on by laying some (very subtle) groundwork for sparky in case TPTW changed their minds and went with that pairing.

Of course it could also be as simple as him liking Elizabeth, writing stuff for her, and wondering "who would she have this scene with" and logically write it with Sheppard, because she could be a little more revealing with him *shrugs*

More questions that we'll never get the answers to unless someone were to take TPTW hostage and torture them.

Hey, I just noticed I got promoted!!

Now I'm the very model of a modern Major General. I have information animal, vegetable and Sparky. Or however that tune goes.

Congrats!

Do you mean that someone thought Weir ordered the strike which she said, numerous times, that she was against? That's...definitely a...possibility. Sure

*headdesk*

Ah, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).

Nope, I agree. Which is why, in my head canon, Elizabeth Weir is still out there. And she looks like Torri Higginson.

Gotta get some sleep! Good night, everybody!

[Scary Kitty]

Do you mean that someone thought Weir ordered the strike which she said, numerous times, that she was against? That's...definitely a...possibility. Sure

In some whacked out alternate universe, that is.

Ah, yes, I remember these well. There's one with a similar plot in which the doc gets all heartbrokey and it's just so heartbrea--anyway, that was OT...where were we?

Ah, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).

Anyway, I need to go decide between feeding a fancition bunny, or an original fiction bunny....

And that idea right there is why so many of us are convinced is the canonical proof that FRANibeth was NOT the original Weir, even though she claimed she was. Along with Mallozzi basically confirming on his blog that the "plan" for Season 6 was that the real Weir was going to be found elsewhere.

Good luck with those bunnies... *passes over a basket of carrots and runs*

[gateraid]

Okay, I'm not a watcher of Star Trek Voyager. But I do get your point. Think you'd be up to writing something like that for John and Elizabeth?

There's been a misunderstanding. I don't have any writing skills myself. I just sit in my armchair and berate those that actually do attempt something

I've made a few attempts at fics, but I can only write snarky stuff, or longer stories that I start but can't finish.

Okay. Maybe we should form our own club?

Hey, I just noticed I got promoted!!

Now I'm the very model of a modern Major General. I have information animal, vegetable and Sparky. Or however that tune goes.

Congrats Everyone is getting promoted before me. I am fast becoming the Major Davis of this thread

I'm surprised that this surprises you after all you've seen and heard. LOL Yes, it's very true and was stated with absolute certainty. Repeatedly. John's concern in GitM was for the city, not Elizabeth.

What can I say, I'm an eternal blimmin optimist?

Wow again. I wonder how this person perceived his "what if one of them wanted to stay" line. He must've meant for interrogation purposes *nods*

Do you mean that someone thought Weir ordered the strike which she said, numerous times, that she was against? That's...definitely a...possibility. Sure

Surprisingly, yes. The only bit that is even close to being accurate about that statement is that she pushed, strongly, for the attack directive to be reactivated during Lifeline.

Ah, yes, I remember these well. There's one with a similar plot in which the doc gets all heartbrokey and it's just so heartbrea--anyway, that was OT...where were we?

Is that the one where he creates a holographic family, and one of them dies, it takes a huge emotional toll on him......and they hit the reset button at the end of the episode?

Ah, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).

Anyway, I need to go decide between feeding a fancition bunny, or an original fiction bunny....

Yes, I was impressed by her performance too. If they'd stuck with her playing Weir (or a version of her) then that would have been fine with me, because Sparky 2.0 seemed to work fine.

That said, judging by her actions, I didn't get the impression she was Weir either. Sure, she had her memories, but she wasn't her.

I'd like to think so as well...



What SR said. But they're not making it up. They're reading between the lines. ROFL

They might even have been doing something else with lines, for all the sense they made

And seriously. How many times did John even talk to Kate during the time she was on? FH has the answer, I'm sure...

I know they had group scenes together (the Michael conference room scene springs to mind, as well as The Gift hypnosis/possession scene) but don't think they had a one-on-one scene.

But having Carter (whom I loved from SG-1) and Keller be the ones cut up about her death just made me think "oh shut the hell up, you two didn't even know her"

In some whacked out alternate universe, that is.



And that idea right there is why so many of us are convinced is the canonical proof that FRANibeth was NOT the original Weir, even though she claimed she was. Along with Mallozzi basically confirming on his blog that the "plan" for Season 6 was that the real Weir was going to be found elsewhere.

Good luck with those bunnies... *passes over a basket of carrots and runs*

Mallozzi can be the king of double speak sometimes, but this time, I'm reminded of the line from X-Files: "I want to believe"

[MentallyUnstableFox]

Nope, I agree. Which is why, in my head canon, Elizabeth Weir is still out there. And she looks like Torri Higginson.

Gotta get some sleep! Good night, everybody!

And that idea right there is why so many of us are convinced is the canonical proof that FRANibeth was NOT the original Weir, even though she claimed she was. Along with Mallozzi basically confirming on his blog that the "plan" for Season 6 was that the real Weir was going to be found elsewhere.

Good luck with those bunnies... *passes over a basket of carrots and runs*

YES. There were a few plots that they were trying to sell us that I didn't quite buy (see what I did there? *she said lamely*) Long Live Elizabeth! If only we could've seen that part of S6. Sigh...

In some whacked out alternate universe, that is.

Ah, yes, the universe in which Weir was actually never making the expedition's decisions, but was the IOA's puppet, taking secret orders for them in an undercover operation to overthrow the government. Not only that, but she was stabbing them in the back by selling top secret info to the Wraith, who in turn rewarded her with a whole bunch of little doohickeys to display around her office. What the Wraith didn't know, however, was that she was host to a Goa'uld. She also had an affair with Kavanaugh. That universe.

Is that the one where he creates a holographic family, and one of them dies, it takes a huge emotional toll on him......and they hit the reset button at the end of the episode?

oh, that's right! I'd forgotten about the reset. But yes, that was the one I was talking about. Bob Picardo is a fantastic actor, isn't he? Sometimes I'll watch both shows in a day, and, a couple hours later, when I'm thinking about them, I'll just realize "My God. That's the same guy!!!

Yes, I was impressed by her performance too. If they'd stuck with her playing Weir (or a version of her) then that would have been fine with me, because Sparky 2.0 seemed to work fine.

That said, judging by her actions, I didn't get the impression she was Weir either. Sure, she had her memories, but she wasn't her.

Exactly! It just wasn't our Lizzie.

[Sequoia Hope]

I always wondered how intentional it was and I would love to know.

I know that Mallozzi said that Binder was the go to guy when it came to writing Elizabeth and he wrote most of the episodes that either centered around her (such as BIS and TRW) which is another reasons to love his work since who knows how much she would really have been there had he not, but anyway, I think maybe having a lot of Sheppard around seem natural. But did write a lot of good episodes such as my own personal favorite episodes of SGA ‘Echoes’, he also wrote a lot of the episodes in the later seasons that centered around Teyla and Keller so I’m really glad that he was there, otherwise we might have seen even less of the female characters (and I know he wasn’t the only one who did, it’s just that the females didn’t seem to be a priority for many of the show runners).

I know that Carl Binder once said in an interview on GateWorld that he wasn't the best when it came to creative writing, but he enjoyed working with the characters and their individual personas. He tried focusing on the moral dilemmas a character might face and used those to come up with sci-fi related plots. Just look at the whole spectrum of episodes he's written that deal a lot with the characters themselves. We have all of the Elizabeth episodes, such as "Before I Sleep" and "The Real World." "Letters From Pegasus" let us sympathize with the characters as they wished their loved ones well. "Critical Mass" gave us some amazing Teyla moments and a debate with morality at the episode's end. And "McKay and Mrs. Miller" was a touching story that left us with the message of the importance of family and friends. (I love how the episode closes with John and his team chatting and laughing in the mess hall.) If anyone is the king when it comes to truly knowing and understanding his characters, it's Carl Binder.

Wow, I didn't realise JM had said that about Carl. I've started to wonder now whether, with the benefit of hindsight and how Binder opined that he loved writing McKeller and Keller, if he wasn't hedging his bets early on by laying some (very subtle) groundwork for sparky in case TPTW changed their minds and went with that pairing.

Of course it could also be as simple as him liking Elizabeth, writing stuff for her, and wondering "who would she have this scene with" and logically write it with Sheppard, because she could be a little more revealing with him *shrugs*

Oh, gosh! If that was his intention, then his efforts certainly showed on-screen. This just goes to show that he really did know his characters well. He could see deep into John and Elizabeth's chemistry on-screen and how they may be a potential couple to ship in the future.

Ah, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).

It kind of bothered me in any episode "Elizabeth" appeared in after "Lifeline" how she seemed too calm. We know how Elizabeth isn't a very outwardly emotional woman, but one would think that after her ordeal with the Replicators and finally seeing her friends again, she would be more emotional about it. Instead, we can see in "The Mortal Coil," where "Elizabeth" is a clone, it seemed as if she was taking what had happened to her in stride.

And not to mention, it was a bit difficult for me to imagine Elizabeth working with the Replicators to build human bodies, even if they were a faction who wanted to break away from Oberoth. After "The Real World," you would think that nanites were now one of her biggest fears. That was reinforced in "Adrift" and "Lifeline" after Rodney reactivated her nanites. And now, she's working with Replicators, manufactured from the very insidious robots that had been unleashed in her body and caused her much emotional trauma. I suppose one could argue that she was trying to make the best of the situation, but that would imply that she still had hope for herself. In "Adrift" and "Lifeline," her despair when she talked with Teyla and John seemed to send the message that she didn't want to live anymore, and that may have also been another reason why she sacrificed herself to the Replicators. If I was told that we never saw the real Elizabeth after "Lifeline" again, and she was actually in stasis, free from emotional trauma, I could probably believe that.

[ShipperWriter]

Ah, yes, the universe in which Weir was actually never making the expedition's decisions, but was the IOA's puppet, taking secret orders for them in an undercover operation to overthrow the government. Not only that, but she was stabbing them in the back by selling top secret info to the Wraith, who in turn rewarded her with a whole bunch of little doohickeys to display around her office. What the Wraith didn't know, however, was that she was host to a Goa'uld. She also had an affair with Kavanaugh. That universe.

Oh my God. You get it too. ROFLMBO.

That was cracktastic. Thanks for the laugh this early in the morning!

[Falcon Horus]

And seriously. How many times did John even talk to Kate during the time she was on? FH has the answer, I'm sure...

I know they had group scenes together (the Michael conference room scene springs to mind, as well as The Gift hypnosis/possession scene) but don't think they had a one-on-one scene.

He was never alone with Kate.

Whenever they talked it was always with other people around - The Gift (infirmary & Elizabeth's office), Michael (briefing room), Doppelganger (briefing room & observation room). As far as memory serves, those are the times they were in same room together.

Hence why the Kate/John pairing is so much fun to imagine because it goes back to only one scene in Michael - the one in the briefing room where Kate and John go head to head about what to do with Michael. And it's maybe one or two lines from each character and a 1 second moment.

More questions that we'll never get the answers to unless someone were to take TPTW hostage and torture them.

Never underestimate the power of the Lemming!

Whose ankles need biting here?

Congrats Everyone is getting promoted before me. I am fast becoming the Major Davis of this thread

LOL!

But having Carter (whom I loved from SG-1) and Keller be the ones cut up about her death just made me think "oh shut the hell up, you two didn't even know her"

That annoyed me to no end.

Ah, yes, the universe in which Weir was actually never making the expedition's decisions, but was the IOA's puppet, taking secret orders for them in an undercover operation to overthrow the government. Not only that, but she was stabbing them in the back by selling top secret info to the Wraith, who in turn rewarded her with a whole bunch of little doohickeys to display around her office. What the Wraith didn't know, however, was that she was host to a Goa'uld. She also had an affair with Kavanaugh. That universe.

Ah, so that explains this look...

[Southern Red]

In some whacked out alternate universe, that is.



And that idea right there is why so many of us are convinced is the canonical proof that FRANibeth was NOT the original Weir, even though she claimed she was. Along with Mallozzi basically confirming on his blog that the "plan" for Season 6 was that the real Weir was going to be found elsewhere.

Good luck with those bunnies... *passes over a basket of carrots and runs*

So true. She seemed too much like the Weir in TMC, not our Elizabeth, but a close copy.

There's been a misunderstanding. I don't have any writing skills myself. I just sit in my armchair and berate those that actually do attempt something

And he's really good at it. Just ask the writers for SGA-R.

Wow again. I wonder how this person perceived his "what if one of them wanted to stay" line. He must've meant for interrogation purposes *nods*

If I remember correctly, it was said that John was worried that she would want to stay and was preparing to stop her. He was afraid Woolsey would go along with it, so he wanted to find out what would happen if she asked to stay. I swear *hand in the air* I am not making that up.

It kind of bothered me in any episode "Elizabeth" appeared in after "Lifeline" how she seemed too calm. We know how Elizabeth isn't a very outwardly emotional woman, but one would think that after her ordeal with the Replicators and finally seeing her friends again, she would be more emotional about it. Instead, we can see in "The Mortal Coil," where "Elizabeth" is a clone, it seemed as if she was taking what had happened to her in stride.

And not to mention, it was a bit difficult for me to imagine Elizabeth working with the Replicators to build human bodies, even if they were a faction who wanted to break away from Oberoth. After "The Real World," you would think that nanites were now one of her biggest fears. That was reinforced in "Adrift" and "Lifeline" after Rodney reactivated her nanites. And now, she's working with Replicators, manufactured from the very insidious robots that had been unleashed in her body and caused her much emotional trauma. I suppose one could argue that she was trying to make the best of the situation, but that would imply that she still had hope for herself. In "Adrift" and "Lifeline," her despair when she talked with Teyla and John seemed to send the message that she didn't want to live anymore, and that may have also been another reason why she sacrificed herself to the Replicators. If I was told that we never saw the real Elizabeth after "Lifeline" again, and she was actually in stasis, free from emotional trauma, I could probably believe that.

That pic that FH posted just says it all. That version of Elizabeth was capable of doing what the Elizabeth in GitM did, but I don't see her as the real Elizabeth either. I hadn't thought about it before, but you brought up an excellent point. She was much too calm in TMC. At times, she could be very emotional, whether angry, worried or sad. There was always some sense of what she was feeling in her face, but in TMC in the back of the jumper when she was talking with John and then again when they were walking, she didn't show any emotion at all. She might have been talking about ordinary every day events for all the emotion she showed. Look at John's poor little woobie face in those scenes. He had his heart on his sleeve.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I'm pretty good. I'm glad that Thanksgiving is over. Being with relatives can be so stress inducing!

Tell me about it!

Weekend?

Oh definitely!!!

Cool!

Thanks.

What do you think of my idea to use my twins in my Sparky Advent offering?

I think it can be a good idea.

I can't believe nobody has noticed...

But we've passed 130,000 posts!


*pops open the champagne*

Hurray!!!!

And my contribution for Smutty Tuesday. Part One is crack, and Part Two is not for kiddies.

Will try to read it on the weekend. Thank you for it.

As for SK's fics, I know where her big bang fic but not the others.

I love her big bang fic, is definitely marked as favourite!!!!

Random Sparky pic:

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/...00_1_24557.jpg

Love it! Thank you for posting.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family and College Football Saturday! Good luck to everyone who's still got a team in the hunt for the post-season!

There's been a misunderstanding. I don't have any writing skills myself. I just sit in my armchair and berate those that actually do attempt something

Aww, don't sell yourself short like that. You've been a great help to us with SGA Rising.

But having Carter (whom I loved from SG-1) and Keller be the ones cut up about her death just made me think "oh shut the hell up, you two didn't even know her"

THAT was what pissed me off the most about that episode. Total 'WTF, let's jump the shark' moment.

Mallozzi can be the king of double speak sometimes, but this time, I'm reminded of the line from X-Files: "I want to believe"

You and me both, my friend.

Ah, yes, the universe in which Weir was actually never making the expedition's decisions, but was the IOA's puppet, taking secret orders for them in an undercover operation to overthrow the government. Not only that, but she was stabbing them in the back by selling top secret info to the Wraith, who in turn rewarded her with a whole bunch of little doohickeys to display around her office. What the Wraith didn't know, however, was that she was host to a Goa'uld. She also had an affair with Kavanaugh. That universe.

I know that Carl Binder once said in an interview on GateWorld that he wasn't the best when it came to creative writing, but he enjoyed working with the characters and their individual personas. He tried focusing on the moral dilemmas a character might face and used those to come up with sci-fi related plots. Just look at the whole spectrum of episodes he's written that deal a lot with the characters themselves. We have all of the Elizabeth episodes, such as "Before I Sleep" and "The Real World." "Letters From Pegasus" let us sympathize with the characters as they wished their loved ones well. "Critical Mass" gave us some amazing Teyla moments and a debate with morality at the episode's end. And "McKay and Mrs. Miller" was a touching story that left us with the message of the importance of family and friends. (I love how the episode closes with John and his team chatting and laughing in the mess hall.) If anyone is the king when it comes to truly knowing and understanding his characters, it's Carl Binder.

It's too bad Elizabeth wasn't in that scene, too.

It kind of bothered me in any episode "Elizabeth" appeared in after "Lifeline" how she seemed too calm. We know how Elizabeth isn't a very outwardly emotional woman, but one would think that after her ordeal with the Replicators and finally seeing her friends again, she would be more emotional about it. Instead, we can see in "The Mortal Coil," where "Elizabeth" is a clone, it seemed as if she was taking what had happened to her in stride.

And not to mention, it was a bit difficult for me to imagine Elizabeth working with the Replicators to build human bodies, even if they were a faction who wanted to break away from Oberoth. After "The Real World," you would think that nanites were now one of her biggest fears. That was reinforced in "Adrift" and "Lifeline" after Rodney reactivated her nanites. And now, she's working with Replicators, manufactured from the very insidious robots that had been unleashed in her body and caused her much emotional trauma. I suppose one could argue that she was trying to make the best of the situation, but that would imply that she still had hope for herself. In "Adrift" and "Lifeline," her despair when she talked with Teyla and John seemed to send the message that she didn't want to live anymore, and that may have also been another reason why she sacrificed herself to the Replicators. If I was told that we never saw the real Elizabeth after "Lifeline" again, and she was actually in stasis, free from emotional trauma, I could probably believe that.

That's an excellent point. The Elizabeths we saw in TMC, BAMSR and GitM were just far too... Zen, I guess, about the whole thing. Way too accepting of it all, in comparison to when the Original Elizabeth woke up in Adrift and was just this side of freaking out about the whole thing. The contrast is definitely something to raise the hair on the back of your neck just thinking about it.

[poundpuppy29]