Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[hail_dorothy]

As far as I can tell female viewers in general (there are always exceptions) are more interested in the 'ship' side of shows than male viewers. Therefore there seems to be an ongoing problem that the mostly male PTB (especially in the sci-fi genre) are not really very good at creating relationships that will satisfy the expectations of the female part of the demographic. They seem to think that all they have to do is throw a bit of romance our way every now and again and we'll be happy but we are more discerning than that.

As for Sheppard/Weir V Sheppard/Teyla. If they wanted a male lead to have a relationship with an ass-kicking hot alien chick then they picked the wrong actor and devised the wrong character for him to play. Sheppard, as we say here in the U.K is a 'thinking woman's crumpet' and not up to playing Hercules to Teyla's Xena. He is is too complex on the one hand and not macho enough on the other. Ronon however sounds perfect for the task. I found the

Spoiler:

mention of Weir saying that Ronon wasn't very chatty amusing because I feel the same way just from reading spoilers about his character.

I totally agree that, when it comes to 'ship, female veiwers are the ones most invested (I know this is a generalization, please don't think I'm trying to say that all female veiwers are shippers or that no men are invested in ship) and who make up the majority of, for instance, online ship-related communities. Tptb certainly seem to function under this perception. I think that one of the main problems is that they often also believe they can plan for, and guide people into buying, the 'sanctioned' ship, before they've even shot a scene or cast a part, without giving the audience the chance to choose. I really don't think it works that well.

I say this with total love to the writers, but...don't ever try to figure out what a woman is gonna think ahead of time, particularly thousands of 'em that you've never met and for god's sake don't try and make the decision for her, yo. Recipe for disaster, that's all I'm sayin'.

Does anyone else feel that the guys who write stargate can be pretty heavy handed when it comes to writing ship?...and strong female characters on occasion as well?

I guess what I'm skirting around saying (for fear I may hurt somone's feelings) is that John/Teyla never really pulled me in because the Ship felt forced to me, something they were trying to make, instead of something that was just there. Their shippy scenes weren't exactly subtle and they didn't seem to spend much time developing Teyla as a character in her own right for much of the first half of s1. Her scenes seemed to fall into either Exposition Girl or The Alien Chick categories. I didn't like her until 'Suspicion', then I loved her in that one ep, then they kinda didn't seem to know what to do with her.

In contrast I found a character like Elizabeth to be much more interesting as a concept and had been given space to develop and get some depth much sooner. I indentified with and admired her (even putting aside my long standing kink for strong, ballsy female characters Elizabeth is, for me, the kind of female leader I have been waiting years to see portrayed on TV) and I often find that, even when I ship a pairing, its the female character I'm most interested in (not in that way...although, in this case I would totally think about it ). So maybe that has something to do with how I choose my ships.

Anyway, so that is my long (long), drawn out ponderings of why I think S/T didn't appeal to me while Shep/Weir hit me on the head and made me its b*tch.

(Also, I should point out that Teyla has completely grown on me, I think there's nothing wrong with Sheyla but the name (sorry) and that Ronon Dex is absurdly manly, implausibly muscled and would totally like to throw Teyla down on a few more hard surfaces sometime in the near future )

On other stuff (spoilers for Duet and Intruder ahead): Regarding whether or not Liz

Spoiler:

gave in on the subject of Ronan too easily, are there good reasons for her to say no to John in The Scene? Or are we mostly bothered by the fact that he knew she would say yes? 'Cos theres already been comments from Caldwell about the fuzzy nature of the command structure that might foreshadow future troubles but I still believe that if Shep ever truly over stepped the mark Elizabeth would not hesitate to tell him to pack up his toys and go home. (I should mention I haven't seen the end scenes and so am going by others comments only)

PS (If anyone is still reading by now) I love all the spoiler pics with all the John/Liz stuff. Talk about body language people!

[Vixen]

Maybe the editors are the shippers?!
They don't trim the gaze fests.
They choose to quick cut between E & J constantly.
Endless reaction shots between one another.
Episodes are bookended with the Power Couple.
hmmmm... It must be the editing.

Haha! Maybe they are

[Easter Lily]

Maybe the editors are the shippers?!
They don't trim the gaze fests.
They choose to quick cut between E & J constantly.
Endless reaction shots between one another.
Episodes are bookended with the Power Couple.
hmmmm... It must be the editing.

More kudos to them for being the discerning ones...

[Bama]

Maybe the editors are the shippers?!
They don't trim the gaze fests.
They choose to quick cut between E & J constantly.
Endless reaction shots between one another.
Episodes are bookended with the Power Couple.
hmmmm... It must be the editing.

LOL! For some reason this post just totally cracked me up! I can see two women in some dark editing room just playing with the mouse trying to come up with the best shots to show on screen. ; ) Gazefests! That word just cracks me up because it is SO accurate when describing what they are!
I'm a big 'word' person...in case y'all haven't figured that one out yet.
And I'm lovin the phrase you just 'coined' here...

"Power Couple". Now that-I could go with....great phrase to describe what they are on atlantis!

Go shippy editors Go!!!

; ) -bama

[FoolishPleasure]

Maybe the editors are the shippers?!
They don't trim the gaze fests.
They choose to quick cut between E & J constantly.
Endless reaction shots between one another.
Episodes are bookended with the Power Couple.
hmmmm... It must be the editing.

No wonder Gero was uptight about reaction to the "hug" scene. . .it was supposed to be CUT. *LOL*

[SGLAB]

snip- I think that one of the main problems is that they often also believe they can plan for, and guide people into buying, the 'sanctioned' ship, before they've even shot a scene or cast a part, without giving the audience the chance to choose. I really don't think it works that well.

I think this was the problem with Shep/Teyla.

Does anyone else feel that the guys who write stargate can be pretty heavy handed when it comes to writing ship?...and strong female characters on occasion as well?

Oh yes. S7-8 of SG-1 comes to mind. Both with Sam/Jack ship and the way sam was written.

I guess what I'm skirting around saying (for fear I may hurt somone's feelings) is that John/Teyla never really pulled me in because the Ship felt forced to me, something they were trying to make, instead of something that was just there. Their shippy scenes weren't exactly subtle and they didn't seem to spend much time developing Teyla as a character in her own right for much of the first half of s1. Her scenes seemed to fall into either Exposition Girl or The Alien Chick categories. I didn't like her until 'Suspicion', then I loved her in that one ep, then they kinda didn't seem to know what to do with her.

Yes, I wish they'd focused on developing Teyla as a character in her own right instead of being defined by ship.

In contrast I found a character like Elizabeth to be much more interesting as a concept and had been given space to develop and get some depth much sooner. I indentified with and admired her (even putting aside my long standing kink for strong, ballsy female characters Elizabeth is, for me, the kind of female leader I have been waiting years to see portrayed on TV) and I often find that, even when I ship a pairing, its the female character I'm most interested in (not in that way...although, in this case I would totally think about it ). So maybe that has something to do with how I choose my ships.

That's the great thing about shep/weir. Weir is not defined by this relationship. She is being developed as a character in her own right.

Anyway, so that is my long (long), drawn out ponderings of why I think S/T didn't appeal to me while Shep/Weir hit me on the head and made me its b*tch..

Well, I wouldn't go so far as that myself. But Shep/Weir does have an appeal.

[Bama]

Oh yes. S7-8 of SG-1 comes to mind. Both with Sam/Jack ship and the way sam was written.

Hey, elaborate please...I've watched sporatic eps of sg-1 and know somethings bout the sam/jack ship but not as much as a proclaimed sam/jack shipper might. I root for them to get together but I don't think they allowed the characters as much depth most times as I like. I see more depth on 'atlantis' developing at least with Elizabeth and John.



That's the great thing about shep/weir. Weir is not defined by this relationship. She is being developed as a character in her own right.

Yep. And I think one of the better female characters on tv in the last...well...since 'scully'.


Well, I wouldn't go so far as that myself. But Shep/Weir does have an appeal.

Er...yeah, it's pretty much made me it's slave in a short timeframe too. They are just...hot together...in more ways than one. I know one thing...TPTB over Atlantis better 'define' their relationship while they still have a small window left or we, the fans will do it for them.

-B ; )

[Bama]

Ok...guys...I've had a whack of a day at work and believe me, I have a clue what E-woman feels when everything comes unglued. ; ) I've been up here at the is campus -almost non-stop...since 8 am...AND, I've got another 2 hour evening orientation meeting in about 15 mins. Will somebody PLEASE feel some pity on me here and post some awesome...

SHIPPY PICTURES!!!


I'll need some rejuvinating later tonite. ; ) I'd love to see those pics from 'The Eye' again if anyone has them handy...that look in Elizabeth's eye and the one in John's says a lot, lot...and the handholding thing is just...awww....

Pretty please...I'm terrible at finding pics and I'm so...NOT techy.

-Bama ; )

[Hatcheter]

C`mon Hatch..you can`t leave us hanging like that! Please tell

Well, you asked for it.

Go here. I don't feel like typing all that up yet again.

[SGLAB]

[Quote]Originally Posted by SGLAB
Oh yes. S7-8 of SG-1 comes to mind. Both with Sam/Jack ship and the way sam was written.

[Qoute=Bama]Hey, elaborate please...I've watched sporatic eps of sg-1 and know somethings bout the sam/jack ship but not as much as a proclaimed sam/jack shipper might. I root for them to get together but I don't think they allowed the characters as much depth most times as I like. I see more depth on 'atlantis' developing at least with Elizabeth and John. [Qoute]

During seasons 5 and 6 they had completely pulled away from Sam/Jack ship. At least that's how I saw it. Maybe subtle moments here and there, but nothing an anti-shipper couldn't ignore or interpret differently.

In seasons 7 and 8 they dropped the ship in like an anvil in various episodes like Grace, Lost City 1 in season 7. In season 8 there was Threads I think. Some episodes had moments directed as shippy and felt forced. Gazefests that felt forced would be how I would describe them. Sheppard/Weir gazefests don't feel forced to me. And the rest of the episodes was like it didn't exist. It was very uneven.

[Vixen]

I'd love to see those pics from 'The Eye' again if anyone has them handy...that look in Elizabeth's eye and the one in John's says a lot, lot...and the handholding thing is just...awww....

Pretty please...I'm terrible at finding pics and I'm so...NOT techy.

-Bama ; )

torrihigginson.info

[xkawaiix]

Well, you asked for it.

Go here. I don't feel like typing all that up yet again.

:blink blink: Wow. Very... McKay/Carter-ish. I think I got some of it...

Ok...guys...I've had a whack of a day at work and believe me, I have a clue what E-woman feels when everything comes unglued. ; ) I've been up here at the is campus -almost non-stop...since 8 am...AND, I've got another 2 hour evening orientation meeting in about 15 mins. Will somebody PLEASE feel some pity on me here and post some awesome...

SHIPPY PICTURES!!!


I'll need some rejuvinating later tonite. ; ) I'd love to see those pics from 'The Eye' again if anyone has them handy...that look in Elizabeth's eye and the one in John's says a lot, lot...and the handholding thing is just...awww....

Pretty please...I'm terrible at finding pics and I'm so...NOT techy.

-Bama ; )

Here's one.

You know, this ship is so full of life that even when they look at the floor it's romantic.

[Rubicon]

::evils:: I think they are looking at their pantslessness. ::What?::

[xkawaiix]

lol!

[Vixen]

And a few from from Intruder:








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