Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Jenova Synthesis]

I'm catching up with you - numbers from 10 to 20 were homework for today!

That's not fair! I've already forgotten everything! And next week you know the numbers up to 30 and then... I'm sad!

[Lexa Jayde]

ill catch you guys later... gotta go to work... .... earn some money

[Naughtrish]

ill catch you guys later... gotta go to work... .... earn some money

OI !! watch your language young lady

[Finnstardust]

That's not fair! I've already forgotten everything! And next week you know the numbers up to 30 and then... I'm sad!

Don't worry! There's not a chance in...well, no chance they'll actually stay in my head. Plus I have a test next week - you wouldn't want to do it for me, would you??

[Jenova Synthesis]

Don't worry! There's not a chance in...well, no chance they'll actually stay in my head. Plus I have a test next week - you wouldn't want to do it for me, would you??

Ehh, ... well, actually... no. Had French for only 4 years. If 'Je m'appelle Jenova et j'ai 20 ans' is all I need to know for the test then let me think about it. *hopes it was correct*

[gooner_diva]

This week's episode is "Aurora" I think. Not one of my favs, but Shep was sure pretty in it.

I thought Shep was extra hot in Aurora for some reason.

Not that I wanna interrupt your linguistic debate or anything.

[ubiquitous]

He was very extra hot. I think it was the lighting. And the funky outfit.

[Jenova Synthesis]

He was very extra hot. I think it was the lighting. And the funky outfit.

And his hair! And the way he ate that cookie.
Okay, going to bed now. It's nearly 1.30 a.m. and I have to make it through 10h of lectures tomorrow. Well, today.
*takes her teddy and goes to bed*

Good night. Bonne nuit. Bona nox. Gute Nacht.

[ubiquitous]

And yes, the hair!! And the curling iron of doom

Goodnight!

[Bama]

Words...just excuse me or ignore me here while I think and ramble aloud...

Was eating dinner on the sofa and the SG-1 ep 'Beneath the Surface' was playing and I was randomly paying attention and looking thru magazines and the title kinda kept bringing me back to it. Of course, TPTB chose that title based partially on the premise of the hidden mines beneath the city but you'd have to be an ignorant, blind and of low IQ beyond measure not to see the 'hit you over' the head ship pointers in the episode regarding Jack and Sam. And then, I kept thinking, well, if TPTB do it a lot with SG-1 (and imo, they did) then I figure they do that 'double meaning' stuff with SGA in abundance too. I've always loved wordplays so I began to ponder on the most obvious 'wordplay' of all from SGA eps lately of course, 'Conversion'.

Spoiler:

The obvious conversion going on is with Shep's physical nature but then the other, more 'hidden' conversion we see going on is the emotional one. The intentional focus and framing of Conversion just keeps nagging me. TPTB didn't have to make that as much of an Elizabeth emotional focus episode as it was but they did and very intentionally. To what end? What was her own conversion and transformation within the episode supposed to indicate?

In my adored leathercover Webster's thesaurus, the word 'conversion' is explained this way: indication of growth; a turning point, a passage to a different viewpoint, a progress, a change, something that allows one to 'see the light'.

I kept thinking that the episode was exactly that. It allowed Elizabeth to 'see the light' of her own 'change' toward John. I think if anything was highlighted in the episode, it was that very fact. She was forced to admit things to herself that anything short of facing Shep's death would have remained emotionally unaddressed and unexplored for her by choice. Just as The Storm/Eye is the ep that we point to as the 'one' where many first realized the depth of their growing bond to each other and the depth of those growing feelings hinted at in '38 mins', Conversion will be pointed to later as the ep that Elizabeth at least, began to 'see the true light' in regard to her feelings about Shep. Her own emotional conversion in the ep forced her to look in the mirror and reflect. With Shep's physical conversion, it was as if she were truly looking at him in totality for the first time commander to commander, friend to friend and woman to man.

The scene where he is sitting alone on the bed staring out on the city, stripped of all power, all joy, all hope is a powerful one in retrospect. It is alone that Elizabeth reaches out and makes her first full effort to reach the real man inside. He was emotionally naked and bare and yet, she forced her feet to move toward him, her hand to reach out to him and try to connect with the man inside. It wasn't the simple move of a commander reaching out to a fellow commander, nor was it as simple as a friend reaching out to comfort a friend. She wasn't offering simple words of kindness or strength. She was offering a higher level connection with him-Elizabeth to John. She was compelled to-driven to-had to. Whether he accepted that offer or not yet isn't even relevant. Although, John's implied, "it is better for both of us" certainly indicates that he too felt the stirrings of that unspoken connection continuing to bind them even through his physical and mental affliction. That unspoken bond they share and Elizabeth's change from holding herself back to reaching out. Her first willingness to reach out for that bond openly and knowingly was the 'hidden transformation in this incredibly important episode. It was the true growth-the true conversion in this slow dance between them.

John's true growth is coming in Epiphany and I'm chomping at the bit to get ahold of that title. Words that my trusty thesaurus reveal on it are: 'Intuitive grasp of reality'; 'A revelation'; 'an illuminating discovery'; 'moment of clarity'.
Now if those words don't get you bouncing in regard to that ep and this ship, nothin will. 'Conversion' and 'Epiphany' together give us a changed man and woman that see things between them clearer.

It doesn't get much better than that for now.

Shutting up...
*oh, stop clapping*

[FoolishPleasure]

[In my adored leathercover Webster's thesaurus, the word 'conversion' is explained this way: indication of growth; a turning point, a passage to a different viewpoint, a progress, a change, something that allows one to 'see the light'.

It wasn't just John's "conversion", it was Elizabeth's as well. TPTB could easily have used that episode to further any other "ship" - showing Teyla visiting him, worrying about him, etc. They showed none of that, and instead focused on Elizabeth's POV. Just more evidence that TPTB have moved away from sheyla-ville.

[xkawaiix]

Words...just excuse me or ignore me here while I think and ramble aloud...

Was eating dinner on the sofa and the SG-1 ep 'Beneath the Surface' was playing and I was randomly paying attention and looking thru magazines and the title kinda kept bringing me back to it. Of course, TPTB chose that title based partially on the premise of the hidden mines beneath the city but you'd have to be an ignorant, blind and of low IQ beyond measure not to see the 'hit you over' the head ship pointers in the episode regarding Jack and Sam. And then, I kept thinking, well, if TPTB do it a lot with SG-1 (and imo, they did) then I figure they do that 'double meaning' stuff with SGA in abundance too. I've always loved wordplays so I began to ponder on the most obvious 'wordplay' of all from SGA eps lately of course, 'Conversion'.

Spoiler:

The obvious conversion going on is with Shep's physical nature but then the other, more 'hidden' conversion we see going on is the emotional one. The intentional focus and framing of Conversion just keeps nagging me. TPTB didn't have to make that as much of an Elizabeth emotional focus episode as it was but they did and very intentionally. To what end? What was her own conversion and transformation within the episode supposed to indicate?

In my adored leathercover Webster's thesaurus, the word 'conversion' is explained this way: indication of growth; a turning point, a passage to a different viewpoint, a progress, a change, something that allows one to 'see the light'.

I kept thinking that the episode was exactly that. It allowed Elizabeth to 'see the light' of her own 'change' toward John. I think if anything was highlighted in the episode, it was that very fact. She was forced to admit things to herself that anything short of facing Shep's death would have remained emotionally unaddressed and unexplored for her by choice. Just as The Storm/Eye is the ep that we point to as the 'one' where many first realized the depth of their growing bond to each other and the depth of those growing feelings hinted at in '38 mins', Conversion will be pointed to later as the ep that Elizabeth at least, began to 'see the true light' in regard to her feelings about Shep. Her own emotional conversion in the ep forced her to look in the mirror and reflect. With Shep's physical conversion, it was as if she were truly looking at him in totality for the first time commander to commander, friend to friend and woman to man.

The scene where he is sitting alone on the bed staring out on the city, stripped of all power, all joy, all hope is a powerful one in retrospect. It is alone that Elizabeth reaches out and makes her first full effort to reach the real man inside. He was emotionally naked and bare and yet, she forced her feet to move toward him, her hand to reach out to him and try to connect with the man inside. It wasn't the simple move of a commander reaching out to a fellow commander, nor was it as simple as a friend reaching out to comfort a friend. She wasn't offering simple words of kindness or strength. She was offering a higher level connection with him-Elizabeth to John. She was compelled to-driven to-had to. Whether he accepted that offer or not yet isn't even relevant. Although, John's implied, "it is better for both of us" certainly indicates that he too felt the stirrings of that unspoken connection continuing to bind them even through his physical and mental affliction. That unspoken bond they share and Elizabeth's change from holding herself back to reaching out. Her first willingness to reach out for that bond openly and knowingly was the 'hidden transformation in this incredibly important episode. It was the true growth-the true conversion in this slow dance between them.

John's true growth is coming in Epiphany and I'm chomping at the bit to get ahold of that title. Words that my trusty thesaurus reveal on it are: 'Intuitive grasp of reality'; 'A revelation'; 'an illuminating discovery'; 'moment of clarity'.
Now if those words don't get you bouncing in regard to that ep and this ship, nothin will. 'Conversion' and 'Epiphany' together give us a changed man and woman that see things between them clearer.

It doesn't get much better than that for now.

Shutting up...
*oh, stop clapping*

Wow. That is quite a post Bama! I'm short on time so I just *have* to say that that was... just breath taking and very well thought out and observed. It's like doing an autopsy on an episode. Very deep, very thorough. Hehe, can't help but clap I'm afraid.

All I have to say about Conversion is that

Spoiler:

since some veiwed as the beginning of this episode (the kiss and all) very shippy for the Shep/Teyla people, I believe that if it were meant to be so, they would have carried that... theme or idea throught the episode instead of dropping a bomb shell in the beginning and the end of that episode. I think that this episode is clearly centered on Elizabeth because is seems to me that they are testing Weir. It seems like they are asking themselves, "Are her feelings for this man going to affect her job, her role as a leader?" Apparently not... in one way and apparently so in another. When it came down to risking more lives to retrieve the eggs that would most likely save Sheppard's life she said no. She clearly stated, with regret, that she would not send anymore members back to that planet. But when it came down to killing him when no other options were available, she said no. If Caldwell had been given the choice, I am sure that he would have said that he was a security risk and that if he escaped, he would be risking the life of the people on Earth and the people in our galaxy.

So, unlike that... kiss... the Shep/Weir ship was carried through out the episode, even stated by Sheyla shippers. They said that there were many more scenes with John and Elizabeth interation and although they had quite an ending in their oppinion, the idea was not carried out through the episode, thus not grabbing the audiences attention.

And maybe this is why our anti thread is more active than the Shep/Teyla anti thread.

Wow, I have no idea where that came from. -looks at time- and it took a lot more time than I had intended it to be. (yesh, I tend to type a bit slow )

[Bama]

It wasn't just John's "conversion", it was Elizabeth's as well. TPTB could easily have used that episode to further any other "ship" - showing Teyla visiting him, worrying about him, etc. They showed none of that, and instead focused on Elizabeth's POV. Just more evidence that TPTB have moved away from sheyla-ville.

You know FP, another thing that nags at me with the ep besides the oh, so obvious -glow-brite- neon sign that Elizabeth is waking up and smelling her own perculatin' coffee in regards to Shep is I can't quite figure out why they 'tossed' in (and that is what it was) that

Spoiler:

mouth attack thing. I think if you 'toss' in the red herring there, it keeps people talking but honestly, anyone with an IQ above 50 could tell that ep was specifically geared to showcase Elizabeth's growing feelings for Shep and her awareness of them as well as Shep's confusion about his own feelings in regard to 'them'. I wonder if that intention to highlight shep's personal confusion wasn't the very reason they did it though. They could have shown Shep's growing 'aggression' a dozen different ways.

The only other alternative I can see is to try and display that Shep and Weir have the connection in every way right now other than sexual. And if that's the case, I think that's TPTB wanting to give Shep and Weir room to 'breathe and grow' into fullness before allowing it to be overwhelmed by the UST aspect. And honestly, it might be a good move for the time being.

I know that I'm interested to see how much if any Shep/Weir pure UST intentional moments we're given in the second half. My bet is we get one small moment of 'er...was it?' sort of like that post hug pause between them.

[FoolishPleasure]

You know FP, another thing that nags at me with the ep besides the oh, so obvious -glow-brite- neon sign that Elizabeth is waking up and smelling her own perculatin' coffee in regards to Shep is I can't quite figure out why they 'tossed' in (and that is what it was) that mouth attack thing. I think if you 'toss' in the red herring there, it keeps people talking but honestly, anyone with an IQ above 50 could tell that ep was specifically geared to showcase Elizabeth's growing feelings for Shep and her awareness of them as well as Shep's confusion about his own feelings in regard to 'them'.

Someone in the Shep/Teyla thread saw Rachel at a convention last weekend and Rachel said she had no idea where TPTB were taking Teyla romantically. Apparently there were questions regarding Tey/Ronon but nothing Shep/Teyla. Rachel said TPTB are still looking at the character dynamics and seeing who looks/fits best with each other. Rachel also said Teyla and Ronon were originally supposed to be more brother/sister types. . .however. . . Ya get the drift?

Sounds like TPTB are still "experimenting" with the triangle of Shep/Weir/Teyla, which is why "Conversion" was so mixed. Although that "kiss" sure wasn't romantic to me.

[xkawaiix]

Someone in the Shep/Teyla thread saw Rachel at a convention last weekend and Rachel said she had no idea where TPTB were taking Teyla romantically. Apparently there were questions regarding Tey/Ronon but nothing Shep/Teyla. Rachel said TPTB are still looking at the character dynamics and seeing who looks/fits best with each other. Rachel also said Teyla and Ronon were originally supposed to be more brother/sister types. . .however. . . Ya get the drift?

Sounds like TPTB are still "experimenting" with the triangle of Shep/Weir/Teyla/Ronon, which is why "Conversion" was so mixed. Although that "kiss" sure wasn't romantic to me.

Hee* this is starting to sound like "As the Gate Turns" again.