Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

So, WonderCon is over, and boy am I tired! Now I get to spend the next week recovering.

Did the "fog" accurately generate their "dream" worlds, in that, is that what each of them really wanted?


I never really thought of this in detail, but that sounds reasonable. Otherwise, how would each of come up with such personal scenarios. The odd thing is that John and Elizabeth's thoughts kept going back to each other. It seemed like she thought he didn't come along, but he thought she did because he wondered about "Dr. Weir and the others." Ford's thoughts about getting transferred were also odd unless it meant that he was concerned that he might have to leave Atlantis and his dream reflected his worry. Foreshadowing from these writers? Wow. Since it was written by Mullie and Mallozzi, double wow. Those guys wrote the War and Peace scene? Triple wow. Maybe it really was intended to be sarcastic and snarky and show a power struggle between them. LOL

The irony of Those Two writing this episode with so darn many Sparky shippy moments even as they claimed they weren't writing that ship amuses the snot outta me. *snorts*

Why would Elizabeth and Rodney fixate on not being able to return to Pegasus, but John wouldn't? (Note: I agree with JT's answer above, but posting it for further discussion)

It's a possibility that John caught on really early. In the elevator scene with Hammond, he gets a really puzzled look when offered transportation. I don't think that is out of the realm of possibility, but the limo should have been a huge red flag. At best, he would have been given a car from the motor pool. Military officers don't ride around in limos. Otherwise, maybe John was so busy trying to figure out WTF was going on, he didn't think about not being able to go back.

From what I remember of Home, I have to agree with this as well. John's supposed to be a smart guy, it's no surprise to me that he was the first to pick up on the Twilight Zone-quality of "Earth."

Is John's bachelor pad for sale?


None of us would be able to afford it if it was. LOL Personally, it's not at all my taste and just shows what the writers think a guy like John would really want. I think John would go for something a little more homey and comfy, not leather and chrome.

Well, unless that leather was some old and comfy easy chair that he sits in to watch football.

[Sparky She-Demon]

I don't recall a time when we see his room again in S1. I think we first see the Cash poster in Conversion. We'll watch for it in the post-a-thon.



Join us on Sundays for the post-a-thon and you can rewatch with us. It's at 4:30 Eastern time.

Now to tackle a few questions:

Did the "fog" accurately generate their "dream" worlds, in that, is that what each of them really wanted?


I never really thought of this in detail, but that sounds reasonable. Otherwise, how would each of come up with such personal scenarios. The odd thing is that John and Elizabeth's thoughts kept going back to each other. It seemed like she thought he didn't come along, but he thought she did because he wondered about "Dr. Weir and the others." Ford's thoughts about getting transferred were also odd unless it meant that he was concerned that he might have to leave Atlantis and his dream reflected his worry. Foreshadowing from these writers? Wow. Since it was written by Mullie and Mallozzi, double wow. Those guys wrote the War and Peace scene? Triple wow. Maybe it really was intended to be sarcastic and snarky and show a power struggle between them. LOL

Why would Elizabeth and Rodney fixate on not being able to return to Pegasus, but John wouldn't? (Note: I agree with JT's answer above, but posting it for further discussion)

It's a possibility that John caught on really early. In the elevator scene with Hammond, he gets a really puzzled look when offered transportation. I don't think that is out of the realm of possibility, but the limo should have been a huge red flag. At best, he would have been given a car from the motor pool. Military officers don't ride around in limos. Otherwise, maybe John was so busy trying to figure out WTF was going on, he didn't think about not being able to go back.

Does Elizabeth believe Simon is truly upset with her, and she's been quietly coping with the grief ever since they arrived in Atlantis?


I think she's likely to have been feeling guilty and sees this as a chance to reassure Simon and apologize. When he kisses her she feels a difference, so at this point she may be thinking things have changed and she can move on. I doubt it goes much beyond that. She's a very loyal person and Simon is a habit. It's too early for her to forget their relationship. The fact that she tells Rodney he shouldn't know about Simon shows how private she is, so any thoughts about Simon have been kept to herself.

Is Elizabeth's car really red?


Maybe like John's bachelor pad, this is the car she always wanted. Or maybe it's a car she had at one time because it is an older model.

Is John's bachelor pad for sale?


None of us would be able to afford it if it was. LOL Personally, it's not at all my taste and just shows what the writers think a guy like John would really want. I think John would go for something a little more homey and comfy, not leather and chrome.

I think that they were going for the over the top flyboy dream pad. I'm pretty sure that some of those things he would've wanted. But John is a lot classier than he's ever given credit for.

One question that's been on my mind, did John's "Kirking it up" really only take off after Elizabeth went MIA?

[Southern Red]

I think that they were going for the over the top flyboy dream pad. I'm pretty sure that some of those things he would've wanted. But John is a lot classier than he's ever given credit for.

I agree. What guy wouldn't want the golf clubs and all the toys, but once again these writers underestimate John. Or they tried to write him as something he wasn't and the fans rejected their ideas.

One question that's been on my mind, did John's "Kirking it up" really only take off after Elizabeth went MIA?

Just the opposite. From Chaya to Teer to Mara, all those were in S1-2. After Elizabeth was gone came Larrin, and very little flirting other than her. I think the writers were trying to make us believe the "intergalactic babe magnet" idea about John. All it did for me was show that he wasn't attached to ANY woman on the show. Realistically, I think he considered Elizabeth out of reach.

However, in my personal canon, he never slept with any of them. After all, he did say he never saw it coming.

[Sparky She-Demon]

I agree. What guy wouldn't want the golf clubs and all the toys, but once again these writers underestimate John. Or they tried to write him as something he wasn't and the fans rejected their ideas.




Just the opposite. From Chaya to Teer to Mara, all those were in S1-2. After Elizabeth was gone came Larrin, and very little flirting other than her. I think the writers were trying to make us believe the "intergalactic babe magnet" idea about John. All it did for me was show that he wasn't attached to ANY woman on the show. Realistically, I think he considered Elizabeth out of reach.

However, in my personal canon, he never slept with any of them. After all, he did say he never saw it coming.

I also think that while John flirted with all of them, he didn't sleep with them. Yes he's a flyboy, and with those wings come a major boost of charisma, especially when it comes to the ladies. But he's not a "wham-bam, thank you ma'm" kind of guy.

Also do you have a fanfiction.net account?

[Southern Red]

I also think that while John flirted with all of them, he didn't sleep with them. Yes he's a flyboy, and with those wings come a major boost of charisma, especially when it comes to the ladies. But he's not a "wham-bam, thank you ma'm" kind of guy.

Also do you have a fanfiction.net account?

No, I don't do ff.net.

So Sparky fans, I'm here with the first Sparky wallpaper of Spring. Yeah, I know it's a day early, but I've been agonizing over working on this for a week, and with some very constructive help from Mr. SR, I like the end result. Tell me if you agree. The flower background is from a beautiful birthday card I got from my BFF, so you can thank her if you like it. Oh, and the text if from an old old Emmylou Harris song.

Spoiler:

[Sparky She-Demon]

Nice job on the wallpaper. Do you use photoshop to make them?

[Brie]

One question that's been on my mind, did John's "Kirking it up" really only take off after Elizabeth went MIA?

I could be completely wrong here I know but I’ve been thinking about that and I always thought that maybe a big reason why nothing ever happened with either Liz or Teyla was maybe because at the time that the Atlantis expedition came around he was in a pretty rough place emotionally and while he still preformed his duties on Antarctica he had still almost given up and settled, and then he meets Liz who offers him a second chance and he doesn’t want to screw it up, but also as we find out later he was married (and we don’t know how long ago that was) and we don’t know what effect that had on him though we do know that they got a divorce because the secrecy and the fact that they never saw each other etc. but I don’t think that it was easy on him, it never is. What I mean to say here among my blabbering is that John probably knew or thought that maybe he because of him past that he wasn’t in the right place during the shows five year run that he would be a very good boyfriend/husband etc. and since Liz and Teyla would be the two women (there was a lot of other females on Atlantis) that he would the closest to and who would practically be his family and maybe he just didn’t go there because he didn’t want either of them to get hurt if he did screw it up. That is also something that made me think of his of world conquests so to speak, I mean it was easy and once the mission was over he never had to see them again if he didn’t want to. It was also that which made me think of the idea of John going after Teyla in the first episode, because at the time he didn’t know that she would stay on Atlantis or join his team so it was pretty innocent but once he did know they just dropped the whole plot idea. Like John said, they are his family and he would do anything for them yet the amount of times that during season 1-3 that Liz and Teyla got in some kind of trouble or got hurt in any way and couldn’t stop it or take their place must have been very hard on him and then when he had to leave Liz behind in the hands of the replicators (who he was very aware of what they were capable of) to later find out she had been killed must have been a blow like nothing else (and you could tell that his character got darker there, heck even Rodney noticed in ‘doppelganger’) and then also when Teyla was taken by Michael was also hard on him. ‘Remnants’ I felt was a really powerful episode for Shep, I think it just really shows what truly lays hidden in the dark corners of John’s soul and it was also one of the really few times when he didn’t even seem to suspect that something wasn’t right like he did when trapped in a similar world in ‘Home’.

You know what, excuse my rambling again, I just put some thoughts together here that had been crossing my mind, there are probably theories that doesn’t support this, it was just something that crossed my mind when I watched the show.

[Brie]

Just the opposite. From Chaya to Teer to Mara, all those were in S1-2. After Elizabeth was gone came Larrin, and very little flirting other than her. I think the writers were trying to make us believe the "intergalactic babe magnet" idea about John. All it did for me was show that he wasn't attached to ANY woman on the show. Realistically, I think he considered Elizabeth out of reach.

However, in my personal canon, he never slept with any of them. After all, he did say he never saw it coming.

Yeah, I saw this after I posted my post and this is pretty much what I wanted to say as well, though this was said with less rabling then me *lol*.

[Southern Red]

Nice job on the wallpaper. Do you use photoshop to make them?

I use Photoshop Elements. It's cheaper. LOL

And something that Brie said brought up an interesting point. Why didn't John notice something was off in Remnants? I think it was because the fantasy focused on him and was something he felt he deserved to have happen. We heard about how he beat himself up over losing people, so Kolya beating him up was nothing new. I think this was probably a low point for John, but then he comes back to Atlantis, shakes it off and goes back to teasing with Rodney just like always. He was really good at compartmentalizing.

[Brie]

And something that Brie said brought up an interesting point. Why didn't John notice something was off in Remnants? I think it was because the fantasy focused on him and was something he felt he deserved to have happen. We heard about how he beat himself up over losing people, so Kolya beating him up was nothing new. I think this was probably a low point for John, but then he comes back to Atlantis, shakes it off and goes back to teasing with Rodney just like always. He was really good at compartmentalizing.

Defiantly, it always makes me wonder if the show would have continued if he ever would have some kind of breakdown at some point, I mean he never really deals with things that happens, well, ok, maybe that's not entirely true, he does talk to Liz about it sometimes, especially when she brings something up, or occasionally someone else but after Liz leaves (that's a nice was to put it I guess) he doesn't really talk about himself as much with anyone anymore, or he goes sparring with Teyla or sparring or running with Ronan and I guess that's a way to get it of his chest but still, there has got to be a lot of things building up inside of him and I think that maybe it would have been interesting to see, it wouldn't have to be something special, maybe just smashing a few things or something (we did see on 'The Eye' how he gets when something really affects him) I mean he is human and there is only that much a human can take before something happens to their mind. Now I know they never show it though 8never understood why) but I know that Kate Heightmeyer is there for a reason and I can admit that it would have been interesting to see more of the work she does on Atlantis and with the people there (other than Teyla and Rodney though those are great as well) but she have a very important job there and and they could have had a few very interesting character development scenes taking place in her office.



I completely forgot to mention that I loved the wallpaper.

[ShipperWriter]

Snuck on in between classes.

We can blame John and Liz for being in the gutter, it's their fault for being so darn unobvious to what we find to be extremely obvious.

And about the 'War and Peace' - scene, it is one of my favorite, the thing with it is that they could have had that conversation anywhere, I mean she could have asked him about if after a meeting or something yet she choose to show up at what obviously is a late hour long after the day was over just so that they could have some one on one time together, not to mention that the second John saw that it was her he did the exact same thing as he did in 'Hide and Seek' with the football game, he just stepped into protective boyfriend mood gave her his full attention, I mean, yeah, that scene isn’t totally obvious at all.

Yep. The "War and Peace" scene is definitely one of my favorites! I could watch it again and again and again and again ...

what was elizabeth's One personal item?

I'm not sure but I always assumed that it was her father’s pocket watch; at least I think she had it with her from the beginning.

I concur.

Anyway, I just read through the post-a-thon, yes the entire friggin' thing, and WOW! You guys really got your snark on today! I'm sorry I missed the fun!

Best post of the day has to go to ShipperWriter for this gem:

Sheer brilliance!

*humbly bows* Thank you!

Sorry to hear about your friend ShipperWriter.

Thanks. Appreciate it.

Sounds interesting. Maybe while they're in the Star Wars vers Elizabeth could talk to the Kaminoans about a CloneShep or two for you and the rest of the ladies here?

Hmm, I think you may be on to something here.

Best idea of the century!!

Eeh, not exactly the idea I had in mind, but it seems popular opinion has overruled me.

No, I don't do ff.net.

So Sparky fans, I'm here with the first Sparky wallpaper of Spring. Yeah, I know it's a day early, but I've been agonizing over working on this for a week, and with some very constructive help from Mr. SR, I like the end result. Tell me if you agree. The flower background is from a beautiful birthday card I got from my BFF, so you can thank her if you like it. Oh, and the text if from an old old Emmylou Harris song.

Spoiler:

Pretty, oh so pretty! And I love that last lyric!

Back to work!

[Brie]

I made this John Sheppard wallpaper this past weekend and since this will be my 300th post I thought it would fit, also I know that it’s a John wallpaper but it does indirectly have something to do with Liz.
It’s from a pretty funny scene.

Spoiler:

[mandogater]

Best idea of the century!!

Thanks!!

Maybe we could add a Kate Beckett clone for me and a Kate Heightmeyer clone for FH?

[Southern Red]

I made this John Sheppard wallpaper this past weekend and since this will be my 300th post I thought it would fit, also I know that it’s a John wallpaper but it does indirectly have something to do with Liz.
It’s from a pretty funny scene.

Spoiler:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2v3igeu.jpg

That's really great. I love all the expressions.

[mandogater]

I agree. What guy wouldn't want the golf clubs and all the toys, but once again these writers underestimate John. Or they tried to write him as something he wasn't and the fans rejected their ideas.

As a guy, I agree, we like a few toys to destress with. However, the few military men I know, being my dad and two of my cousins, the words annoyingly practical come to mind. As far as I know the only time my one cousin that's still in spends a lot of money is when he's paying off his wife's credit card bill when he gets back from a deployment.