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**Falcon Horus** · 03 March 2012, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

I can't really remember G.o.d all that well, aside from a gif on the anti thread that caused about two pages worth of moderation. It was pretty funny though

It was a miracle if your post came through unscathed and remained up without getting moderated every two seconds.

OMGoddess so much fun times... *reminiscing*

Originally posted by Brie View Post

This has probably been mentioned before but it was something I was thinking about what I re-watched season 4 (and 5), and that is how different many of the characters were in them compare to who they were in season 1-3, I mean take the whole “We don’t leave people in the hands of the enemy” – mantra that they had going on for 3 season and then they suddenly changed that, I always wondered what they were trying to say with that and the remaining characters, and it wasn’t just in Elizabeth’s case but also when Teyla was taken by Michael, it was pretty much the same attitude, the “well, if we find her we will and if we don’t, well…”,

I really am a little fuzzy on Teyla's kidnapping but I do remember Ronon going missing in Sateda, and there was a line from Caldwell about how Ronon wasn't actually one of their people, to which Sheppard replied that he was one of theirs, a trusted member of his team. Caldwell interpreting one of theirs as coming from Earth and thus not counting Ronon.

It's possible this could apply to Teyla as well, but I'm fuzzy on that - surprising considering I have seen every season 4 and 5 episodes at least 5 times (or at least as many times as there are main characters).

Originally posted by Brie View Post

I know it was a bit like that with Ford as well but somehow it felt a bit different, maybe because Ford made a choice to leave and he didn’t seem to want to return, I dunno,

Ford was part of their military and thus automatically included in the "one of their own", and if caught he could reveal a whole of information they didn't want the Wraith to know about - like Atlantis not having been blown to kingdom come.

Originally posted by Brie View Post

I also never understood why they did remove Elizabeth, was it because they didn’t know where to go with the character?

Err... yeah... that's the million dollar question really...

Originally posted by Brie View Post

Well that would have been arranged, well, it might have taken some imagination but it’s not impossible,

Knowing the Power That Were - yes, impossible is the right word to be used here.

Originally posted by Brie View Post

...it was also weird that they removed Weir but kept Teyla, Ronan, Sam, Jennifer and Richard yet they weren’t even in every episode (now I don’t mind those characters and the actors who played them, that’s not it all all), the whole thing was just weird, and yeah, I know some of them had new born/toddlers/kids at home and I can imagine that they didn’t mind getting to spend time at home with them however Joe and David also have kids and they were in every episode, even if it was pretty weird at times, like John in ‘Trio’ and ‘Brainstorm’ and David in ‘Whispers’, you know just being there to say a line or two at the beginning and/or the end of the episode. Oh well, you can’t really do anything about it now, but yeah, it’s something that has been on my mind for a while.

Like SR mention, Joe and David being in every episode was probably a clause in their contracts. One of them (at least) was after all the male lead... which one was a little blurry towards the end though.

Sometimes (if not all times) I really hate being a Teyla-fan, Elizabeth-fan, Kate-fan, ladies-in-general-fan cause they never get the airtime and stories they deserve. *pouts*

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Lord knows they got enough feedback on what they could do with her and what the fans wanted to see. So why they didn't listen is a mystery.

Remember they were writing the show they wanted to see, not what the fans wanted to see, or the audience in general perhaps.

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

This much time after the fact, it's useless to speculate but it's looking more and more like the plan was to replace her with Amanda Tapping. They didn't expect her to quit after one year.

And thank the goddess she did... otherwise Sanctuary had never come this far, I reckon. And I really enjoy that show.

**Brie** · 03 March 2012, 06:19 AM

I get what you both are saying and you’re defiantly right. When the show was airing I wasn’t online a lot and when I was it was mostly for school or something related to that and I wasn’t actively following any TV-shows or movie fandoms so the only thing I could base my opinion on back then was what I saw on TV and sometimes read about in some magazine etc. (though SGA I don’t think was ever mentioned in any of those here) so I had no idea what went on behind the scenes with the cast or the crew. Looking back now when I know more a lot of things make sense that I didn’t really understand back then. One of those things was Rachel’s pregnancy; you could tell that they obvious sometimes didn’t know what to do with it and how to work it into the show, especially during the actual pregnancy but also after the baby was born and how they were going to work out that part of Teyla into the story, I’m glad that they did though (even if the Michael story line was a bit weird at times), made it easier for Rachel and I can understand if she was a bit worried, I would be too, but it worked out, it must have also been nice for them to get to spend some time with their newborns and still have their jobs so it did work out, especially after losing three characters and actors already it would have sucked if they lost anyone else.

I am curies if anyone know something else about why they chose that end for Elizabeth (the floating around in space for all eternity), and I know they asked Torri about doing GitM and but she turned it down because she thought Weir deserved a better ending which I agree with, but I don’t understand why they didn’t do that since they obviously didn’t want to keep the character around, wouldn’t it have been better to really kill her of? Because the only reason I can think of that they would keep her around the way they did is if they believed that her story really isn’t over, heck, if they really didn’t want the character around she could have died in ‘Lifeline’, well, I’m not complaining, I love seeing Torri in everything she does and Elizabeth was one of my favorite characters so every chance of seeing more of her is great in my book but it just sometimes it didn’t seem to add up, you know, saying one thing then doing something else. But there is probably a lot to the story that I don’t know all I can say now is that Elizabeth was a loved character by both the fans but also by Torri herself, which is obvious since she still does conventions. There was probably something that happened. I’m just glad now afterwards that there things are great between the cast, they are the once I have to admit that I’m really following and who made the show so great even with some occasional poor writing.

**Falcon Horus** · 03 March 2012, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Brie View Post

One of those things was Rachel’s pregnancy; you could tell that they obvious sometimes didn’t know what to do with it and how to work it into the show, especially during the actual pregnancy but also after the baby was born and how they were going to work out that part of Teyla into the story...

Considering they didn't know what to do with Teyla before Kanaan and Torren, it's no surprise they didn't know what to do afterwards or during. I'd much rather would have liked it if they had never created Kanaan or Torren (and this has nothing to do with me being Kate/Teyla shipper btw - as a matter of fact, I quite enjoy Kanaan and Torren's presence in Teyla's life even if I'd rather they never existed in the first place), and had hidden the Rachel's pregnant tummy behind boxes or had Teyla off-world searching for the Athosians. They could have easily written that story and it would have given them the opportunity to really go back to the Athosians and Teyla's backstory with the Wraith.

But no, more Rodney centered stories were much easier to write, and much more fun...

[/end bitterness]

*grumbles for good measure*

Originally posted by Brie View Post

(even if the Michael story line was a bit weird at times)

Even Connor Trineer didn't know what Michael's thing was with Teyla... so if he doesn't know, you can wonder whether TPTW knew at all?

Originally posted by Brie View Post

...especially after losing three characters and actors already it would have sucked if they lost anyone else.

They lost a whole lot more characters then just 3 in 5 years of Atlantis, and in most cases it was like they never existed in the first place.

*clings to Kate*

Originally posted by Brie View Post

I am curies if anyone know something else about why they chose that end for Elizabeth (the floating around in space for all eternity)...

Because they probably were too chicken to really end it...

Originally posted by Brie View Post

But there is probably a lot to the story that I don’t know...

There's a lot none of us know about - the way the business works I'm afraid.

Originally posted by Brie View Post

I’m just glad now afterwards that there things are great between the cast, they are the once I have to admit that I’m really following and who made the show so great even with some occasional poor writing.

Yup, the cast was awesome... and I too try to keep track of their endeavours, even though some of them I'd like to see more off. They've been off my screen for too long - YES, I'M LOOKING AT YOU CLAIRE RANKIN!! Not that she would ever see this, but it's the thought that counts, right.

**Scary Kitty** · 03 March 2012, 06:51 AM

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!

Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post

So this is part of the dream I had earlier. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but it definitely happens during the timeframe of SGARising, as Atlantis is back in Pegasus. If anybody wants to get technical *smirk* I'm not ripping off the premise -- just running with the plotline we were promised for a movie.

Spoiler:

Ahhhhhh! How sad!

That's a great introduction, you should definitely try to develop this fic further!

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Some of what you are wondering about can be covered by actor contracts. Joe and David probably had contracts that said they would be in every episode, so they stuck them in wherever they could. And again, the contracts were negotiated before most of them had the wee babies. Paternity leave in acting doesn't work like in the real world. I'm sure Rachel didn't want to take any more time off than necessary due to being afraid of losing her job. An actor doesn't want the producers or the audience to realize the show can go on without them.

You know, I wonder if that might have been the case with Torri's contract as well? She, Joe and David were really the top three cast members in terms of their previous work (and thus salary), and it seemed like she was shoehorned into a number of episodes during her tenure as well.

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Seasons 4-5 had different showrunners, so that can explain some of the differences. Joe Mallozzi and Paul Mullie took over when Robert Cooper and Brad Wright stepped back and had less to do with the show. Though, we now know that they stepped in where necessary and kept things from going totally off the rails. Mallozzi's well publicized feud with Flanigan probably had a lot to do with the changes in Sheppard and the lack of focus on him as the lead. A feud that JF claims he doesn't know anything about, BTW.

Not to mention Joe's very public criticisms of the casting changes that took Paul McGillion and Torri off the show, though he was especially irate about how Torri was treated.

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

I think they did say they didn't know in what direction to take the Weir character. But that's largely something that's commonly said when they don't want to tell you the real answer. It's like when an actor or politician quits to "spend more time with their family", not necessarily the real reason. Lord knows they got enough feedback on what they could do with her and what the fans wanted to see. So why they didn't listen is a mystery. This much time after the fact, it's useless to speculate but it's looking more and more like the plan was to replace her with Amanda Tapping. They didn't expect her to quit after one year.

I didn't really see any equivocating on finding Teyla. I thought they were determined to find her no matter what. Carter certainly allowed more leeway than she did in rescuing Elizabeth.

Just goes to show the hypocrisy of the whole situation, doesn't it?

Originally posted by Brie View Post

I am curies if anyone know something else about why they chose that end for Elizabeth (the floating around in space for all eternity), and I know they asked Torri about doing GitM and but she turned it down because she thought Weir deserved a better ending which I agree with, but I don’t understand why they didn’t do that since they obviously didn’t want to keep the character around, wouldn’t it have been better to really kill her of? Because the only reason I can think of that they would keep her around the way they did is if they believed that her story really isn’t over, heck, if they really didn’t want the character around she could have died in ‘Lifeline’, well, I’m not complaining, I love seeing Torri in everything she does and Elizabeth was one of my favorite characters so every chance of seeing more of her is great in my book but it just sometimes it didn’t seem to add up, you know, saying one thing then doing something else. But there is probably a lot to the story that I don’t know all I can say now is that Elizabeth was a loved character by both the fans but also by Torri herself, which is obvious since she still does conventions. There was probably something that happened. I’m just glad now afterwards that there things are great between the cast, they are the once I have to admit that I’m really following and who made the show so great even with some occasional poor writing.

When asked, Joe Mallozzi has hinted that they were considering further plans for Weir and that GitM was never supposed to be the end of her storyline, but that at the time, they also hadn't entirely figured out where it was going to go or how it was going to end. Torri's comments to fans later on have made it pretty clear that it was the uncertainty coming from the producers/writers about the storyline that finally turned her off to the whole mess. I get the impression that had they come to her with a complete, detailed plan for the storyline, she would have continued with it.

**Brie** · 03 March 2012, 07:14 AM

It was another thing I like about SGA, they did a great job not only with their main cast members (and they were the once I was thinking of when I said 3 though I don’t want to take anything away from the rest of the characters, especially those who died) but also on the recurring and one-time guest stars, it was really easy to like them (whether they were the good guys or the bad guys) and they were all great actors and despite maybe not being on the show a lot, especially the recurring guest roles, they still felt like they fit right in, another thing I feel speaks volumes of everyone in the cast.

My brother and I were talking about actors in general a few days ago, and we were mostly talking about male actors and some of the big names came up (i.e. Johnny Depp, Leonardo DiCaprio etc.), big HW names), then we started talking about female actors and he said they were harder because they don’t generally get as much attention or screen time, and then we talked about how it is on TV about how many shows cats mostly consist of male characters with a few women on them and then he said SGA is like that however and I quote what he said “although, the women who plays Weir is one of the best actresses I’ve ever seen and she really stands out”, I was just sitting there going well, I can’t argue with you on that one, sadly some people wouldn’t see it.

**Falcon Horus** · 03 March 2012, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Brie View Post

It was another thing I like about SGA, they did a great job not only with their main cast members (and they were the once I was thinking of when I said 3 though I don’t want to take anything away from the rest of the characters, especially those who died) but also on the recurring and one-time guest stars, it was really easy to like them (whether they were the good guys or the bad guys) and they were all great actors and despite maybe not being on the show a lot, especially the recurring guest roles, they still felt like they fit right in, another thing I feel speaks volumes of everyone in the cast.

Recurring characters tend to be forgotten as a whole, especially when they're not male... the fandom tends to be very "hot male" oriented...

I just saw the artwork for the sgareversebang (first the artwork, then the fic), and off the 30+ pieces only two dealt with female characters alone. I think that's pretty telling...

Originally posted by Brie View Post

My brother and I were talking about actors in general a few days ago, and we were mostly talking about male actors and some of the big names came up (i.e. Johnny Depp, Leonardo DiCaprio etc.), big HW names), then we started talking about female actors and he said they were harder because they don’t generally get as much attention or screen time, and then we talked about how it is on TV about how many shows cats mostly consist of male characters with a few women on them and then he said SGA is like that however and I quote what he said “although, the women who plays Weir is one of the best actresses I’ve ever seen and she really stands out”, I was just sitting there going well, I can’t argue with you on that one, sadly some people wouldn’t see it.

It all really depends on the show or film really... and the people behind it. But indeed, female characters tend to draw the short end of the stick on many occasions.

**gateraid** · 03 March 2012, 02:50 PM

Sorry to self quote, but while I was trying to see where I was at, I realised the obvious conclusion to this:

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

Weir: What? Kate changed her hair again? They only allow a limited amount of beauty products through the gate - how will I keep up? At this rate I'm gonna have to borrow Ronon's wig!

Sheppard: Please don't. Fanfic would explode if that happened Elizabeth

Weir: In that case, maybe you should wear the wig

I must be going loopy, I don't know how I could have missed that *hangs head*

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Could this be our first SGA-R fanfic? *flails* We welcome all adaptations, departures from our canon and other fic ideas.

All the talk about Taylor Swift has forced me to give what is probably an unpopular opinion. The only song of hers I can listen to is "Back to December." For some reason her voice is like a nail through my head. Maybe it's my ole timey country prejudice kicking in. These new kids just don't sound country enough to me.

*pffft* She doesn't sing country, at least not IMO. It's like calling Nickelback a rock band or good musicians for that matter.

Originally posted by Brie View Post

This has probably been mentioned before but it was something I was thinking about what I re-watched season 4 (and 5), and that is how different many of the characters were in them compare to who they were in season 1-3, I mean take the whole “We don’t leave people in the hands of the enemy” – mantra that they had going on for 3 season and then they suddenly changed that, I always wondered what they were trying to say with that and the remaining characters, and it wasn’t just in Elizabeth’s case but also when Teyla was taken by Michael, it was pretty much the same attitude, the “well, if we find her we will and if we don’t, well…”, I know it was a bit like that with Ford as well but somehow it felt a bit different, maybe because Ford made a choice to leave and he didn’t seem to want to return, I dunno, I also never understood why they did remove Elizabeth, was it because they didn’t know where to go with the character? Well that would have been arranged, well, it might have taken some imagination but it’s not impossible, one example they could have killed the original Weir and then maybe have them meet a Weir from an alternative reality, a Weir that was pretty different from theirs but whose own universe had been destroyed and she was trapped with them, or maybe they could have done like they did with Fred in “Angel”, where the character was possessed by a demon who killed the original Fred and took over her body, it was still the same actress but she got to play two different characters. It sad that they couldn’t come up with something interesting to do, especially since they had such a great actress to work with, they really screwed that one up, it was also weird that they removed Weir but kept Teyla, Ronan, Sam, Jennifer and Richard yet they weren’t even in every episode (now I don’t mind those characters and the actors who played them, that’s not it all all), the whole thing was just weird, and yeah, I know some of them had new born/toddlers/kids at home and I can imagine that they didn’t mind getting to spend time at home with them however Joe and David also have kids and they were in every episode, even if it was pretty weird at times, like John in ‘Trio’ and ‘Brainstorm’ and David in ‘Whispers’, you know just being there to say a line or two at the beginning and/or the end of the episode. Oh well, you can’t really do anything about it now, but yeah, it’s something that has been on my mind for a while.

Everyone else seems to have covered this fairly well. Here's my take on Weir's departure:

They wanted AT on SGA, and had wanted her there since the show's inception. When SG-1 was cancelled, the opportunity was there to put her on the show full-time. It probably would have worked out better if she was only there part time, but that's conjecture with the benefit of hindsight. They had their 'main' three (Sheppard, McKay & Weir) and figured that they couldn't justify (and afford) having all of them there, so looked at the most dispensable. Sheppard couldn't go because he's the star, McKay couldn't go because he's their favourite (and if Carter was there, she'd be stepping on Sheppard's toes a lot as a member of his team), so it had to be Weir. Carter had command experience, so at least on paper, putting her into Weir's role would've seemed like a no-brainer.

Re women on SGA, I think the problem when they write a female-centric episode is that they go one of two ways: incredibly boring, or pretty well. It pains me to say it, because I am a Weir fan, but BIS is one of the most boring episodes in the entire series. I liked the bits where the rest of the team was there, but the 'just Weir' stuff was incredibly slow and predictable. The only bit that had any interest to me was what the piece of paper said - fourty minutes into the episode.

Now contrast that with The Gift - the entire episode is related to Teyla. Even the 'team' stuff is relevant to what she's going through. I think the trap they sometimes fall into is thinking that a female-centric episode has to only involve that character, and it has to be the 'bad' side of a character-based episode. In other words, they can still do the usual things (missions, exploration, whatever), so long as they make it relevant to the character who is meant to be the focus of the episode.

I do think they got worse at being inclusive of all characters as the show progressed. Generally speaking, in the first season eps, the characters tended to have something to do, even if they didn't always play a big role in the ep. I think if Trinity were set in s5, Teyla and Ronon wouldn't have had their own storyline, they'd have just been 'absent'.

**ShipperWriter** · 03 March 2012, 06:29 PM

Wow, did I miss a lot of good discussion! Time to dive in!

Originally posted by mandogater View Post

Interesting. I'd like to see where you end up going with this one.

Oh, you will.

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

The main problem I have with it (and fanfic in general, although I do like to read it) is that it diverges from canon. It makes everything from that point onwards false. The only show I've seen (I have a limited selection, there are bound to have been others) that did 'extra' scenes well was BSG - with The Plan & Razor.

His actual hair probably wouldn't look so bad, but that wig

Yeah, I haven't seen a "okay-we-just-did-it-on-the-balcony-and-we're-going-to-have-a-normal-healthy-romantic-relationship" fic like that at all. I think the only one that semi made it was "Unexpected" by Oparu but mainly because everything that can go wrong does go wrong, and Sparky is the one thing that seems to go right. If you're up for a loooooong R rated story, have at it!

It's probably been written. It's no stranger than the Meredith McKay/John Sheppard ones (where Rodney is a woman, Sam is a man)

*shudders* I can't stand those. They weird me out something horrible!

And John mentally locks the door....which we don't know if that is possible. Note I thought him locking the door with his mind was more unlikely than the idea of them having brazen sex on the balcony. Messed up.

I know John's brain is awesome, but I don't think it can do that. Kinda like those fics where he can psychically talk to Atlantis, and Atlantis talks back.

My effort:

Weir: I told chef to take the beans off the menu from now on

Sheppard: But I love beans

Weir: They don't love you, trust me.

Sheppard: I bet if I threatened chef a little, he'd let me have some

Weir: One, I still outrank you on this. And two, if he lets you have some, then I wont let you have some

Sheppard: Spoilsport

*snorts* That's love right there.

Closets. The classics always work

Yup. Oldie but a goodie!

I looked at as a 'what if' scenario, so that's why it made me sad

I can only attest to the songs I've heard, which would only be a fraction of the ones she's released. The earlier stuff is okay (some of it I even like) but the later stuff makes her seem....like that girl that got dumped because she's too clingy and wont take no for an answer. And then dedicates herself to taking down the new girl, even though it's obvious that she and her ex were not suited.

Aah. Got it.

The songs vary. What can I say? She's a 22 year old girl in Nashville with pretty much guaranteed success on whatever she writes.

And a lot of the songs appeal to me, due to the fact I'm 23 years old and I've been strung along by a couple of guys who were d****bags. I'm a little vindictive. Heh.

Interesting premise. There's enough variation away from AR IMO. I'm trying to find two bits of fic (they were from the same fic, but different chapters) that were the start of one of my longer ones that were on my old computer (now defunct). I know I posted them on this thread, but...

Lost forever, most likely

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Could this be our first SGA-R fanfic? *flails* We welcome all adaptations, departures from our canon and other fic ideas.

*flails* Heh. Then I should send you a little PM.

All the talk about Taylor Swift has forced me to give what is probably an unpopular opinion. The only song of hers I can listen to is "Back to December." For some reason her voice is like a nail through my head. Maybe it's my ole timey country prejudice kicking in. These new kids just don't sound country enough to me.

I grew up listening to country, and yeah, she's not the best singer in the world. I know if she was competing on "American Idol" she probably wouldn't make it through, but the writing talent she has is what has earned her my respect. Not everything's boy-obsessive, but she expresses the words I fumble for and wish I could say through a few lyrics in a song. It's a great talent. Kinda like watching Sparky onscreen. Writing fic based off of their performance is nerve-racking sometimes because you want to embody the essence of Sparky, and it's hard to do unless you're Joe or Torri.

[/end Taylor Swift rant]

Originally posted by Brie View Post

*snipped for length*

Well that would have been arranged, well, it might have taken some imagination but it’s not impossible, one example they could have killed the original Weir and then maybe have them meet a Weir from an alternative reality, a Weir that was pretty different from theirs but whose own universe had been destroyed and she was trapped with them,

I wrote a story like that. "On The Other Side", if you wanna read it. It's not too long. [/shameless self ric]

Also, if I remember correctly, didn't RainbowSunFranks leave of his own accord? I thought he was written out because he didn't feel like Ford was being used enough ...

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Seasons 4-5 had different showrunners, so that can explain some of the differences. Joe Mallozzi and Paul Mullie took over when Robert Cooper and Brad Wright stepped back and had less to do with the show. Though, we now know that they stepped in where necessary and kept things from going totally off the rails. Mallozzi's well publicized feud with Flanigan probably had a lot to do with the changes in Sheppard and the lack of focus on him as the lead. A feud that JF claims he doesn't know anything about, BTW.

I think they did say they didn't know in what direction to take the Weir character. But that's largely something that's commonly said when they don't want to tell you the real answer. It's like when an actor or politician quits to "spend more time with their family", not necessarily the real reason. Lord knows they got enough feedback on what they could do with her and what the fans wanted to see. So why they didn't listen is a mystery. This much time after the fact, it's useless to speculate but it's looking more and more like the plan was to replace her with Amanda Tapping. They didn't expect her to quit after one year.

I didn't really see any equivocating on finding Teyla. I thought they were determined to find her no matter what. Carter certainly allowed more leeway than she did in rescuing Elizabeth.

I thought AT's contract ran past the end of S10 with SG-1, so they planned to move her to SGA to fulfill the terms without breaking the contract. So they broke Torri's instead? *shakes head* Too much to contemplate ... need fluffy Sparky fic ...

Just to compare, this is quoted from "Reunion" when John's talking to Carter about Elizabeth.

Spoiler:

And then, during "The Last Man", when John was MIA for 12 days cause of the solar flare, they didn't make any progress in their search for Teyla.

Ugh. Headache. Moving onto happy fluffy things.

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Ahhhhhh! How sad!

That's a great introduction, you should definitely try to develop this fic further!

Oh, it will. The problem right now is that, besides RL being insanely crazy busy, this is the fic that's floating around, instead of the three fics that are a month late for updates.

You know, I wonder if that might have been the case with Torri's contract as well? She, Joe and David were really the top three cast members in terms of their previous work (and thus salary), and it seemed like she was shoehorned into a number of episodes during her tenure as well.

Not to mention Joe's very public criticisms of the casting changes that took Paul McGillion and Torri off the show, though he was especially irate about how Torri was treated.

When asked, Joe Mallozzi has hinted that they were considering further plans for Weir and that GitM was never supposed to be the end of her storyline, but that at the time, they also hadn't entirely figured out where it was going to go or how it was going to end. Torri's comments to fans later on have made it pretty clear that it was the uncertainty coming from the producers/writers about the storyline that finally turned her off to the whole mess. I get the impression that had they come to her with a complete, detailed plan for the storyline, she would have continued with it.

Speaking of JoeF, have you seen some of the ReTweets coming from the Sweden Convention? A few interesting points in regards to how the fans view the producers.

Flan News: he said, when asked, that Atlantis fans basically gave the producers, who thought fans would watch anything, the finger. He seemed very pleased with the whole finger giving by fans.

*sighs* It's probably time for me to get to bed. I've been writing this post for the past hour. It may not even be valid anymore. *snickers*

Night!

**Scary Kitty** · 03 March 2012, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

I do think they got worse at being inclusive of all characters as the show progressed. Generally speaking, in the first season eps, the characters tended to have something to do, even if they didn't always play a big role in the ep. I think if Trinity were set in s5, Teyla and Ronon wouldn't have had their own storyline, they'd have just been 'absent'.

Sad, but true.

Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post

I know John's brain is awesome, but I don't think it can do that. Kinda like those fics where he can psychically talk to Atlantis, and Atlantis talks back.

I don't know... I mean, if John can use his mind to turn on a hologram, or fly a puddlejumper or even fly Atlantis itself, then closing a door with his mind really shouldn't be that hard to imagine.

Now, the thing about "talking to Atlantis and Atlantis talks back"... eh, that's a bit trickier. Certainly, when you look at how the Ancients reacted when the human-form Asuran Replicators evolved from the Ancients' Wraith-killing nanites, I'd say it's pretty clear that the Ancients would probably not have been all that keen to put an artificial intelligence in charge of the city. Yet there are other clues that would seem to indicate that Ancient technology isn't totally "dumb" either. One that really sticks in my mind (and probably a lot of other peoples') is that very famous scene from Rising Part 2, where Sheppard and Ford (and a few Marines) are on their way to rescue Sumner, Teyla and the others:

PUDDLE JUMPER. The ship is through the Gate and in orbit around the Wraith planet. It cloaks.

SHEPPARD: Wow, this is cool.

FORD: Looks like you got the hang of it.

SHEPPARD: Tell you what, Lieutenant, a lot of fighter pilots would kill to fly this thing. It's like it reads your mind.

(Almost immediately, readouts appear superimposed over the front windshield.)

FORD: Did you do that?

SHEPPARD: I-I was just wondering where we go from here.

FORD: I'll take that as a yes. So how do we find them once we land?

SHEPPARD: Well I've been thinking about that too ... (On the wall beside him, a panel opens to reveal a small hand-sized device with a screen on it. He takes the device off the wall, looks at it and then puts it into his jacket pocket.) Now I'm thinking about a nice turkey sandwich.

(Sheppard and Ford look around the cabin but nothing else materialises.)

FORD: Worth a try.

Sheppard just thinks it, and the jumper provides exactly what he needs. Within its capabilities of course. Obviously, the jumpers aren't equipped with Star Trek-style food service units that just beam in the requested food.

In my personal canon, I see Ancient technology as as being "aware" in that it is capable of anticipating the needs and requirements of its users based on previous usage. Basically, Ancient technology/programming can learn and adapt to a certain extent, but at some point, it will always require the input of a human user (either through pushing buttons or a mental interface) before it can fully carry out directed tasks. So, no, Atlantis can't talk back to John. But it can open or close doors when he asks it to. (Unless they're in a lockdown situation like in Hot Zone.

)

Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post

I thought AT's contract ran past the end of S10 with SG-1, so they planned to move her to SGA to fulfill the terms without breaking the contract. So they broke Torri's instead? *shakes head* Too much to contemplate ... need fluffy Sparky fic ...

Sure looks that way, doesn't it?

Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post

Speaking of JoeF, have you seen some of the ReTweets coming from the Sweden Convention? A few interesting points in regards to how the fans view the producers.

Flan News: he said, when asked, that Atlantis fans basically gave the producers, who thought fans would watch anything, the finger. He seemed very pleased with the whole finger giving by fans.

*giggles* And who's laughing now, PTW? Who's laughing? That's right, we are. Neener neener neener.

**Infinite-Possibilities** · 03 March 2012, 07:18 PM

Was he talking about Stargate Atlantis or Stargate Universe?

**gateraid** · 03 March 2012, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post

Yeah, I haven't seen a "okay-we-just-did-it-on-the-balcony-and-we're-going-to-have-a-normal-healthy-romantic-relationship" fic like that at all. I think the only one that semi made it was "Unexpected" by Oparu but mainly because everything that can go wrong does go wrong, and Sparky is the one thing that seems to go right. If you're up for a loooooong R rated story, have at it!

Don't get me wrong, I like to read those fics. It's just as soon as they start I to suspend all belief (some more than others). That's what fic is for

*shudders* I can't stand those. They weird me out something horrible!

I've only read one (?). If I could have seen Jeannie instead of Rodney-in-a-dress it wouldn't have bothered me. That was the odd thing - aside from him being a woman, pretty much everything else was in-character (aside from him being 'too' neurotic).

Also, if I remember correctly, didn't RainbowSunFranks leave of his own accord? I thought he was written out because he didn't feel like Ford was being used enough ...

I think that's another "we don't really know" scenario. My impression was that they got rid of him, and he wasn't entirely surprised by it. I don't mean to sound like I'm ragging on the guy, but my impression was (based on a few of their comments) that he wasn't 'progressing' as they wanted, and probably living the high life a bit too much. I may be way off on this though. It's a real shame, because I think Ford was more like the 'everyman' character than they realised.....and then they killed him.

I thought AT's contract ran past the end of S10 with SG-1, so they planned to move her to SGA to fulfill the terms without breaking the contract. So they broke Torri's instead? *shakes head* Too much to contemplate ... need fluffy Sparky fic ...

My understanding is that they had the 'option' to keep her there for another year (s4 SGA/s11 SG-1). It's a bit like having an automatic right of renewal on a lease - it's at the owner's discretion to roll it over.

Just to compare, this is quoted from "Reunion" when John's talking to Carter about Elizabeth.

Spoiler:

Sheppard: WTF? Didn't friggen General Hammond himself go against orders to rescue you guys? He went off-world (risking a court martial) to find Teal'C to save your asses from Hathor just because it was the right thing to do?

Carter: Yeah, I don't believe this **** either, but this is what the IOA wants, so this is what the IOA gets

Carter:
And then, during "The Last Man", when John was MIA for 12 days cause of the solar flare, they didn't make any progress in their search for Teyla.

Ugh. Headache. Moving onto happy fluffy things.

So basically John was the only one who wanted to look for anyone. Carson should've been thanking his lucky stars they stumbled across him

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Now, the thing about "talking to Atlantis and Atlantis talks back"... eh, that's a bit trickier. Certainly, when you look at how the Ancients reacted when the human-form Asuran Replicators evolved from the Ancients' Wraith-killing nanites, I'd say it's pretty clear that the Ancients would probably not have been all that keen to put an artificial intelligence in charge of the city. Yet there are other clues that would seem to indicate that Ancient technology isn't totally "dumb" either. One that really sticks in my mind (and probably a lot of other peoples') is that very famous scene from Rising Part 2, where Sheppard and Ford (and a few Marines) are on their way to rescue Sumner, Teyla and the others:

Sheppard just thinks it, and the jumper provides exactly what he needs. Within its capabilities of course. Obviously, the jumpers aren't equipped with Star Trek-style food service units that just beam in the requested food.

In my personal canon, I see Ancient technology as as being "aware" in that it is capable of anticipating the needs and requirements of its users based on previous usage. Basically, Ancient technology/programming can learn and adapt to a certain extent, but at some point, it will always require the input of a human user (either through pushing buttons or a mental interface) before it can fully carry out directed tasks. So, no, Atlantis can't talk back to John. But it can open or close doors when he asks it to. (Unless they're in a lockdown situation like in Hot Zone.

)

This is one of those "it depends what you want to believe" scenarios. I don't believe he has a 'connection' with the city in the way it is implied during fic, because it seems to be more than what the writers implied. Were it to appear in an episode though, I'd buy it *shrugs*

Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post

Was he talking about Stargate Atlantis or Stargate Universe?

Universe. He meant that SG producers thought the fans would continue to watch anything they wrote, but fans gave them the finger by not watching Universe.

**mandogater** · 03 March 2012, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post

Oh, you will.

Great! The sooner the better!

**mandogater** · 03 March 2012, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

I don't know... I mean, if John can use his mind to turn on a hologram, or fly a puddlejumper or even fly Atlantis itself, then closing a door with his mind really shouldn't be that hard to imagine.

When Woolsey first took over and couldn't get out of the conference room, I always thought John had locked him in.

**Scary Kitty** · 03 March 2012, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

Sheppard: WTF? Didn't friggen General Hammond himself go against orders to rescue you guys? He went off-world (risking a court martial) to find Teal'C to save your asses from Hathor just because it was the right thing to do?

Carter: Yeah, I don't believe this **** either, but this is what the IOA wants, so this is what the IOA gets

Sheppard: And since when have you started being the IOA's pet?

Yeah, I'm still bitter. And frankly, I think Sheppard should've been more bitter too. But Joe did the best he could with the crap writing he was given.

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

So basically John was the only one who wanted to look for anyone. Carson should've been thanking his lucky stars they stumbled across him

*snerks*

Originally posted by gateraid View Post

This is one of those "it depends what you want to believe" scenarios. I don't believe he has a 'connection' with the city in the way it is implied during fic, because it seems to be more than what the writers implied. Were it to appear in an episode though, I'd buy it *shrugs*

To hear some of TPTW talk, they never implied Sparky either. But you still accept that Sparky exists.

Originally posted by mandogater View Post

When Woolsey first took over and couldn't get out of the conference room, I always thought John had locked him in.

So did I.

**mandogater** · 03 March 2012, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

So did I.

Sparky minds think alike!!

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