Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Melyanna]

Good grief, I went to bed and everyone came out of the woodwork.

I need to get ahold of a good Shep/Weir two-by-four to hit my brother and high school friend with - neither one is interested in talking ship when they call me long distance!

Yeah, I need to smack my brother with the two-by-four, but most of my friends see what I see. (I think one friend's exact words were "I thought they were getting down in the closets or something.") But ship isn't what he watches for, and if he wants to be distracted by Teyla and her curiously advanced-for-a-primitive-society top, I'll let him be.

Well, I've got two pages of posts to catch up on, so I'm off to do that.

[Melyanna]

What makes it interesting for me is the very fact that it is undefined and I think that the characters know there is a connection but are both still unsure of what it is or what to do.

Yeah, some of the best fics I've read with them deal a lot with how unsettling this is for both of them. John does incredibly stupid and reckless things when he thinks he has to protect her. Elizabeth gets talked into things with remarkable ease. I think this is a fun angle to explore, and I hope the show gets into it too. (Come to think of it... that's up next in Pacific Rim. )

[Melyanna]

I have watched all of Atlantis S1 and found myself deeply confused by the end of the season as to where the ship was going. I was gonna wait until next season to figure it out, but then I discovered Angel of Fire SG-1's fic on FF.net recently and she's convinced me

Isn't it great that fic can be so convincing? Welcome aboard! Post all you like.

[wizengamot]

Jesus Christ! You all were busy! I literally had to take notes so I didn't forget what I wanted to say

Welcome to La, Tamien, Oma-1 Always glad to know more shippers!!!

La: As Mel told me once, its a sibling thing to be contrary to everything you do! My sister ships Shep/Teyla which I never got HOW because she is the biggest freaking feminist known to mankind.

Which brings me to the obvious point that I am not Teyla's biggest fan. I agree, if we see more depth to her than I will probably open up to her more. I did start liking her a little bit more during The Gift. I think one of the biggest things is that being in HS, the boys seriously do NOT need any more space babes, or babes in general to drool over.

Which brings me to, I seem to be the baby of the group! But only by like a year, I am 16 (going on 17, sorry couldn't help it) I guess this means I can away with more... juvenile things....

Hatch- The shelyites are going to ***** slap you into the Pegasus Galaxy! I was over there and literally all they were talking about was how to be nice to the rival shippers. I say we settle it once and for all via dance off!!

I jest... only slightly...

I thought someone said they were taking out the cave scene from rising part 1? I'm sad they took out the 2nd scene with Shepp and Jack in the chopper.

Also, anyone notice how Sheppard's voice has changed? He had this really wierd drall-ish thing in the first couple episodes but it seems to be gone now. It was kinda little kidish...

[wizengamot]

(Come to think of it... that's up next in Pacific Rim. )

Wait, more Pacific Rim!?! HOLDING YOU TO THAT!

[Melyanna]

The episode that first caught my eye for Sheppard/Weir was 38 minutes, I mean she barely knows this guy and she's all worried about him dying. WAYYY too much concern for someone you barely....UNLESS for feel a deep connection to them ......AND then there was The Eye with Sheppard sooo upset when he hears that Weir is dead and then shoots Koyla to save her

Hi, tamien! Glad to see you delurking. As for 38 Minutes, I think that's the reaction a lot of us had. I did, at least.

[Melyanna]

I really like hey, shes a great character, but whenever I see her and sheppard I just have to scream, yell and throw things at the TV. There better just as friends. Like a Sam/Teal'c relationship ... just mates. Ermmm, Daniel and Sam may have been a better combination. Hehe.

My only concern is which relationship they're gonna follow up more. Will it be Weir or Teyla? Whichever one th show pics will be finaly. *gulp

I have hopes that Jack/Sam/Pete was poorly received enough to make them shy away from ever doing a love triangle again. As it is, they'd have more of a mess on their hands, since the three characters would all be regulars here.

I agree that they make better friends than lovers. Does Teyla have a crush on him, at least through Letters from Pegasus? You bet. And then she barely looks at him again through the remaining episodes. Does Elizabeth and John's relationship change after their tiff in Hot Zone? Yep. They get closer. For me, that's often the test of the strength of a relationship.

[Blue Banrigh]

Yeah, some of the best fics I've read with them deal a lot with how unsettling this is for both of them. John does incredibly stupid and reckless things when he thinks he has to protect her. Elizabeth gets talked into things with remarkable ease. I think this is a fun angle to explore, and I hope the show gets into it too. (Come to think of it... that's up next in Pacific Rim. )

Mel, just a little thing but that quote you used was actually from Kazan. I only wished I was that articulate.

[Melyanna]

S2 episode 'Trinity' info

Spoiler:

This episode also suggests that there is going to be a little shipping between Teyla and Ronon in the season, with Solen making the assumption that they are a couple and commenting on how they seem a good match - this is however, pure speculation

And there was much rejoicing.

I've read the sides, and I had the same reaction to it. "Runner" and "Trinity"

Spoiler:

Actually, come to think of it, my shipper radar went off in the sides for Ronon's character, which were from "Runner". Ronon doesn't trust anyone at all, but the person he tells his life story to is Teyla. If she plays that well, that scene could be really moving. She's the only one he trusts.

As for "Trinity", I had the same reaction. The new guy looks at them and says they look like a good match, congratulating them. Teyla laughs and says they're just friends. Still, that's more acknowledgment than Sheppard and Teyla ever got in the field.

[Melyanna]

It wasn't me, but I did feel a little bad for the Teyla-fans that lurk here. And they don't tend to bash Sheppard/Weir as much as we bash Sheyla, I've noticed... maybe we should behave... hmmm..

Eh, I see nothing wrong with talking about another ship as long as you're respectful of the people who like that ship. (Siblings excluded. )

[Melyanna]

Re Teyla, I don't so much dislike her, but dislike what she represents. They're showing Season 4 of SG-1 on Sky at the moment and I caught the episode where Teal'c old love Shauna turns up. I'd forgotten Anise in that episode, quivering away in her little cut away top (I don't think Teyla would ever be able to quiver in a little top, but that's another story). It was a blatant "space babe" moment and when you compare her to Sam Carter sitting in her BDUs across the table, it's just sooooo un-practical and un-professional.

And that's what drives me mad.

Recent pictures don't help that concept I have of the Teyla character. She's a lovely woman, don't get me wrong, but you have to have more than that to engage me personally...

Now Weir. She's in charge, she's intelligent, she's also gorgeous in her own way. yay for Weir. And she has smokin' chemistry with her man.

The recent pictures of Teyla where she looks like she's throwing herself at anything male that moves are really a disservice to her and to Rachel Luttrell. She's a lovely girl, but the absurd wardrobe is not going to win her points from most of the audience — including quite a few of the men I know who watch.

Elizabeth, on the other hand, is always dressed appropriately for the situation, and she always commands the attention of everyone in the room. She doesn't need a shiny purple top with lots of skin showing to be noticed. (Though I have to say that I liked the blue tank top she wore in Underground. But it was after work, so it wasn't out of line.)

[Melyanna]

However, I don't see that happening - my theory is that much as that might have been a tentative plan originally, TPTB realise that for whatever reason there just isn't any spark on screen. In fact I think they've been kinda surprised by the fact that is does come across between Sheppard and Weir.

Major Fischer and I have been espousing this belief since she started the thread. That's why we think it was dropped like a brick so early. There just wasn't anything there that was at all interesting. Sheppard and Weir's chemistry, though, probably took everyone by surprise. JF and TH just play off each other so very well.

[Melyanna]

I think TPTB did her character a disservice by making her subordinate to Sheppard - it belittled her some. And that really also put a big kink in any plans for Sheyla ship. You need to have equal footing for a relationship, which we see with Shep/Weir. Perhaps they could have made it happen with Sheyla, but they didn't (thank you God!). And yes, I know that Sam is subordinate to Jack on SG-1 (Yes, I'm a Sam/Jack shipper too, but not as devoted as I am to this ship) but at least there we have downtime when we can imagine more equal interaction, and given her position as a scientist there are times when her opinion carries the most weight. The leadership styles we see in Sheppard and Weir are very different, but each carries similar burdens and the end result is that you have two people, attracted to each other in many ways, who have pretty solid ground for something to start (but please, PTB, don't really start anything - subtle is best!).

Very good points! I think they also did a disservice by making her from such a primitive culture. They could have dealt with cultural differences without making her medieval. At this point, she's beneath the Atlantis people, even though most of them treat her as an equal.

And you're not alone here — more than a few of us are Sam/Jack expatriates. We're thinking about getting a sign, and declaring a holiday.

[Melyanna]

Okay, random thought, but I was just wondering why it is that this ship developed as "Shep/Weir" rather than "John/Elizabeth"? After all, it's "Sam/Jack" and not "Carter/O'Neill". But then, I suppose even if on SG-1 they rarely use each other's first names, we at least hear other characters (like Daniel) refer to them as such, whereas on Atlantis, Weir's rarely referred to as "Elizabeth" by anyone but Sheppard and McKay, and Sheppard's pretty much only called "John" by Weir. I guess it just seemed strange to me that the ship with overt military implications was on a first name basis while the one involving a civilian was called by surnames.

I honestly think it's because people are called by name and rank/title a lot more in Atlantis than in SG-1. Daniel's always running around calling them Sam and Jack, so that's a familiar appellation. The first names in Atlantis have been more subdued — it was Hot Zone before John called Elizabeth by her first name, to her face or otherwise.

[Blue Banrigh]

But she's not from a primitive culture right, I mean not like some of the cultures in the Milky Way? She had that nifty little firestarter and her people use the stargate quite frequently. There was an city of some sort on Athos, it didn't necessarily have to be Ancient, it could have been her people's only it was destroyed by the Wraith.