Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[xkawaiix]

Eeeee! I can't wait for Allies! I actually have to wait till tomorrow because my "cousin" in "Canada" is far so it takes a while to get here. Hopefully they have it before 10:00.

[xkawaiix]

Hey everyone...

...sorry about posting things off topic, but I was wondering something. In "The Eye", I'm sure all of you mentioned the fact that Sheppard seem to go into a fit of rage and started killing everything in sight after he heard that Weir had died. There was speculation earlier on, in this thread, about whether he would have reacted the same way if it had been McKay who died.

I was wondering...was his intense feelings over Weir's death only due to the friendship they had developed? Or could it have also been due to the fear that after Weir dies...he'd have to lead the entire Atlantis expedition, most likely on his own. He seemed hesitant to fill the position of a leading military officer (is that the right phrase?) at the very beginning, but that could be because of his guilt and not because he was afraid of being a leader. I just think that maybe he thinks a bit like Jack. Jack said once that he was so used to sticking it to the man in charge and it'd be a bit hard for him to be the man in charge. (I forget the title of the episode he said that in and what the exact quote was...sorry!).

Sorry, I'm not saying I don't see potential for a great relationship between Sheppard and Weir, but I was wondering if there were other reasons behind his actions? Obviously he'd be devastated by her death, because he's lost a friend, but losing a friend under such conditions PLUS the thoughts of the future (or the thought of there being no future for them--them as in the general team) could have pushed him over the edge.

Oh and I know I'm revisiting a topic that was discussed a long time ago, but I just wanted to hear some of your thoughts on it.

Lub Lub!
Promi

I don't think any of us can say FOR SURE that he would have reacted the same way if it had been McKay because he hasn't been a position where he knew McKay was dead. I think that what happened after he found out that she wasn't dead shows that he wasn't just going on a rampage because their leader was killed but someone meaning A LOT to him was dead.

[Whistler84]

Actually, a curious question for people here. I know that Shep has angsted before in the past, and I'm trying to think, has he ever angsted for a reason that does not involve Weir? I think I might be missing something, but someone help me out. When has Shep angsted in the past, and why? If they're that many that don't include Weir, I'd be suprised.

[xkawaiix]

Actually, a curious question for people here. I know that Shep has angsted before in the past, and I'm trying to think, has he ever angsted for a reason that does not involve Weir? I think I might be missing something, but someone help me out. When has Shep angsted in the past, and why? If they're that many that don't include Weir, I'd be suprised.

I can only think of the scenes where he angst for Weir, one in LFP when he had to talk about what happened to Sumner and when he went

Spoiler:

to Ford's family to tell them he went missing

I think the majorety of his angst (which isn't a lot because he doesn't angst as much) would be about Weir.

[sunny]

M'kay, it's official. New goal: Move to Canada.

The Eye: Uh, yeah, I thought that too. Esp when he goes "I'm going to kill you" to Kolya *that kinda made me scared of him cos of the collected delivery of that line, GO JF!* I thought not only for revenge but for changing his circumstance from 2nd to 1st in the leader position. It would be amusing to see his reaction if it was McKay. But for all intents and purposes of story telling and drama it would HAVE to be Weir.

That's the only time I've seen some of the Shep angst. There was in LFP. Then there was angst in 38min but that was cos he was gonna die... does the angst count if it's for yourself? Best part of that one: where she tells him they're doing everything they can & JUST the way he said: "I know you are." Awwww that makes me squee for some reason.

[xkawaiix]

"I know you are." Awwww that makes me squee for some reason.

Because he wuvs her! **huggles Sparky**

[Erised]

I was wondering...was his intense feelings over Weir's death only due to the friendship they had developed? Or could it have also been due to the fear that after Weir dies...he'd have to lead the entire Atlantis expedition, most likely on his own. He seemed hesitant to fill the position of a leading military officer (is that the right phrase?) at the very beginning, but that could be because of his guilt and not because he was afraid of being a leader. I just think that maybe he thinks a bit like Jack.

That point makes John sound very heartless, and we know he's not. Of course he did it because he thought they killed Elizabeth. He had feelings for her by then, but it doesn't matter. He thought they killed his friend first of all, and killed for nothing but stupid revenge/whatever - can't remember.
We saw him angsting in Siege III when the communications have disrupted due to wraith darts raining over the city. A similar kind of reaction as when he was screaming at Koyla not to kill Liz. ... that's what I thought anyway.

[sunny]

kawaii: Because he wuvs her! **huggles Sparky**

Is that what it is? Twu Wuv?

[Whistler84]

Let's see here. We have "Home," which I'm not sure is considered angsting, but he does show concern - for Weir, specifically, and Atlantis generally.

Then we have "The Storm/The Eye," which Promitikins is right on a certain level. He has plenty of reasons to wig out by the thought of any of his friends dying. But with Weir, he had extra ones. She is the leader of Atlantis, like Promitikins said. After her death, he'd be in charge. But my problem with this idea is that I highly doubt Sheppard was thinking that far ahead. He was living entirely in the moment, dealing with the Genii threat, and didn't have time to deal with the reprecussions of what would happen to the command structure of Atlantis *if* they survived past the storm and the Genii. He was living in the moment, and at that time, I think Sheppard was pissed because he thought Elizabeth was dead. Not Dr. Weir, the leader. Elizabeth, his friend. If people want to argue that he would have reacted the same way had McKay died, then that's a fair argument that I don't anyone can truthfully answer with authority. Unless, of course, we get a similiar situation to this in one of the future episodes, and McKay is thought dead. Could happen.

But then, a counterpoint. Remember right before Sheppard finds out that Weir is alive? He's all disabling Atlantis's grounding stations and power sources, one by one, effectively destroying Koyla's plans. He knows Koyla has McKay still held hostage, yet Sheppard continues to purposely piss Koyla off - creating a very volitile situation for McKay.

There was a moment, right after Koyla learned that 60 of his men had died, that he glares directly at Weir - as if he knows they died only because Sheppard believes that Weir had died. It was subtle, but I was quite impressed with the way the actor who played Koyla chose to deliver it. Lots of malice on his face directed at . . . the camera pans away directly to Weir! Not McKay and Weir, but just Weir. He's glaring at the girl with utter annoyance and contempt. And it's because he knows that her "death" is the reason Sheppard is giving him such problems. It's after this moment, that Koyla calls Sheppard on the radio and informs him that Weir is still alive, effectively taking the wind out of Sheppard's "killing-spree" sail.

As soon as Sheppard learns that Weir is alive, and Koyla threatens to kill her (again) in ten minutes if he doesn't undue everything he's done, Sheppard doesn't hesitate to backtrack like hell (quite literally, too. He actually backtracks in his footsteps in a huge hurry!). When McKay alone was on the line, Sheppard tried his best to destroy Koyla's plan. When McKay AND WEIR were threatened, Sheppard tried his best to divert Koyla's wrath and reluctantly agreed to Koyla's terms. That says a lot.

*Am still thinking about other Sheppard angst*

Does Siege III

Spoiler:

"I thought you were dead" moments count as angsting? It was brief, but there was definate panic in his voice over the radio.

[xkawaiix]

Is that what it is? Twu Wuv?

Definately! It's Shep's wuv for Weir.

[Lexa Jayde]

anyone like to caption this one?

[sunny]

Must watch The Eye again, for the millionth time. Robert Davi *Kolya* really has a great menacing presence. I hope they bring him back soon. He can be the Q of the show, minus the sarcasm and general goofing off while calling into account someone's actions and morals.

I DO like in The Storm when she tells Kolya Shep's good at his job & he should do what he says SO COCKY!!! Shep does rub off muahahahaha

[xkawaiix]

Liz: Stop exaggerating John, it's only *this* big
Carson:**has become mentally scarred by their awkward conversation**

[Lexa Jayde]

Must watch The Eye again, for the millionth time. Robert Davi *Kolya* really has a great menacing presence. I hope they bring him back soon. He can be the Q of the show, minus the sarcasm and general goofing off while calling into account someone's actions and morals.

I DO like in The Storm when she tells Kolya Shep's good at his job & he should do what he says SO COCKY!!! Shep does rub off muahahahaha

ooohhh.. i like cocky liz too!!!!!!!.... i must rewatch it too!!!!!!!

[Lexa Jayde]

Liz: Stop exaggerating John, it's only *this* big
Carson:**has become mentally scarred by their awkward conversation**

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks.... you are funny!!!!!!!