Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Bama]

Yeah, and that reminds me of something that was said earlier that I thought was very insightful. Alas, I can't remember who said it. But the gist of it was that it's hard to really describe their interaction as tension. They're so close and comfortable in practically every possible respect. It doesn't all have to be sexual innuendo and forced touching and the like to be a really good romance. In fact, I think it's rather refreshing that this ship isn't about tension. It's about closeness and trust and loyalty, which are far stronger bonds than anything sexual.

Yes, it is hard to keep UST constant in every episode for years on end. After a while of that constantly, the characters will burn out and the UST begins to feel trite and stupid. No great ship can have UST that all the time. There will be opportunities for UST to rear it's head but it's circumstantial and it's not every episode that can reasonably occur. A great relationship between a male and female shows *connection* at various levels. I'd rather see a couple travel through the entire spectrum of emotions with each other anyway because it's so much more meaningful and lasting for them. I like episodes that give them chances to get angry with each other while others give them chances to laugh with each other. That's a big difference in this ship and say the Shep/Teyla 'ship'. Shep and Weir are using their different type opportunities and circumstances to get to know and try and understand each other. Each's effort is very visible. That tells me a lot about where this ship can go as they meet the future.

[Bama]

I've always thought of Shep/Weir as a "friendlier" Han Solo and Leia, the rebel pilot/cowboy and the beautiful/strong/dignified diplomat. Totally different people, but this time, these people are actually good friends. You don't see that often on tv or movies.

You know...that's a good analogy for how S/W sort of 'feels'. It's hard to compare ships because there are differing aspects of different ones to see in S/W and each ship is unique.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Sounds like "Coup" was a great ep. Gero is an excellent writer and I'm glad they are maintaining the dynamic between Shep and Weir. That's what primarily convinces me TPTB are sold on this ship. In many eps, "initruder", "Conversion", TLG" "Critical Mass" and now "Coup d'Etat" (to name a few) have featured great scenes between John and Liz. If they wanted to push a Teyla/John ship they should be including more Teyla/John scenes. Thus, imo, those little office scenes and balcony scenes are more important than the kiss, or any declrations made under stress.

Thanks for all the great "Coup" pics and spoilers--it's one stop shopping at this thread!

Royal

[Atlantean_Fan]

All hail the Alter of Martin Gero.... he is soo a SPARKY shipper!!!!

As I have said about 12 pages ago among other things that I guess were ignored, but it's OK. So I will repeat now: we can totally trust Gero and Binder with the development of relantionships. These guys rock in all aspects of showing character development.

I'm looking forward to see Coup d'Etat in late June.

I was just looking the GW episode guide for season two and the three episodes that are to go were writen by Gero and Binder (Michael and Inferno by Binder and Allies by Gero ) which means they'll probably rock!!!!! Since this guys gave us jewels like BIS and LFP.

[weirfan517]

As I have said about 4 pages ago among other things that I guess were ignored, but it's OK. So I will repeat now: we can totally trust Gero and Binder with the development of relantionships. These guys rock in all aspects of showing character development.

I'm looking forward to see Coup d'Etat in late June.

I was just looking the GW episode guide for season two and the three episodes that are to go were writen by Gero and Binder (Michael and Inferno by Binder and Allies by Gero ) which means they'll probably rock!!!!! Since this guys gave us jewels like BIS and LFP.

Heh, I just noticed that Gero did quite a few good episodes. As you mentioned, he did 'BIS' and 'LFP', but he also did 'The Storm', 'The Eye', 'Conversion', and 'Siege Part 3', there are mmore, but I was just pointing out those. I thought they were some of the nicest Sparky eps, so if there's a Gero ep, chance there might be some sparky.

[Vixen]

So finally saw the whole episode:

Spoiler:

But what I liked was, that Elizabeth still would have risked rather Johns life, than handle out the Jumpers...not bc I'd like to see John dying but you also can see, that Elizabeth is a strong person, and knows what's important, the city is still at the first place...one minus-point to Kavanagh aka "she's ruled by felling only"-guy

And this is in case Conversion didn't cast doubts of that kind aside. Thanks Martin (love the name ) TPTB just keep giving reasons why these two would work and that having them in a possible romantic relationship wouldn't "weaken" their characters.

[Jenova Synthesis]

Yes, it is hard to keep UST constant in every episode for years on end. After a while of that constantly, the characters will burn out and the UST begins to feel trite and stupid. No great ship can have UST that all the time. There will be opportunities for UST to rear it's head but it's circumstantial and it's not every episode that can reasonably occur. A great relationship between a male and female shows *connection* at various levels. I'd rather see a couple travel through the entire spectrum of emotions with each other anyway because it's so much more meaningful and lasting for them. I like episodes that give them chances to get angry with each other while others give them chances to laugh with each other. That's a big difference in this ship and say the Shep/Teyla 'ship'. Shep and Weir are using their different type opportunities and circumstances to get to know and try and understand each other. Each's effort is very visible. That tells me a lot about where this ship can go as they meet the future.

So true! Imo to show 'the entire spectrum of emotions with each other' as you called it reflects reality. Sparky is so much closer to a real life relationship than Shepmagan. The last mentioned is like a couple of Barbie's world. 'We're beautiful and this is all our relationship consists of'. I don't wanna say Liz isn't beautiful - hell, she is but she is also so much more. Lots of my friends are not interested in SciFi bc 'it's not real' and I always need to explain why it *is*. They don't understand the idea that these shows are based on. Take G Roddenberry's dream of a peaceful world he tried to show with ST. And if there is any realistic relationship, be it friend-, leader- or a romantic relationship, it is Sparky for me. That's why I don't mind if there are a few eps where they don't flirt or talk too much bc I could not have my partner around me and could not be in the same flirty/lovely mood all the time. This wouldn't be real. Life is no fairytale not even if we wish it would be.

[Vixen]

Martin may not know what he's doing but it sounds like So. Married. And. Don't. Know. It. is back. I was thinking about this when I watched the clip of the final scene in TLG.

Spoiler:

There they are in the twin beds.Remember Ricky and Lucy? Anybody who's married will recognize the scenario. You're yammering away about stuff and he just wants you to shut up so he can go to sleep. In John's case he just doesn't want to talk about it. Joe's delivery of the line "Yeah, it was horrifying." or whatever it was was perfect. You can tell he's married. So much went said at the end of that line they would have needed another whole episode to cover what he was thinking. And she just kept spilling her guts. And the harder she talked the harder he tapped on that dang PDA. I think he was playing one of those space invaders games. Then the end of Coup as it's been reported with him sitting on her desk AGAIN. This is a pattern, and this is what we mean by a slow subtle buildup of Sparky. A way to please almost everybody.

Hallowed are the writers.

Oh good, so it wasn't just my pinky shippy brain that kept chewing on the Married thought when watching that scene Just push those beds together, put them in another room, remove all the hospital equipment and there you have it.

[Bama]

And this is in case Conversion didn't cast doubts of that kind aside. Thanks Martin (love the name ) TPTB just keep giving reasons why these two would work and that having them in a possible romantic relationship wouldn't "weaken" their characters.

The 'oh, they can't be in a romantic relationship because it would weaken them' is simply an argument that makes no logical sense to me. These characters have/are developing feelings for each other all the time. At the least, John and Elizabeth have come to be best friends. As such, they love each other already on some level; they feel compassion and caring for each other. It would be plain out stupid to expect that both wouldn't do all they could to save the other-at anytime- if remotely possible. If, as we expect, their best friendship should expand to include not only best friendship but also feelings of desire for each other as a man and woman and an even deeper desire to admit a special connection as two people in love, then to assume that they're all the sudden!- upon admittal of deeper feelings- going to wish to save each other any more than they already do doesn't make sense. If the feelings are developing and are just there inside each of their hearts, then whether they're admitted or not doesn't mean a hill of beans. Elizabeth isn't going to go, "Oh, John! I'm just so much weaker now that you've made love to me! I can't dare send you into danger!" She is the leader. She loves him now yet she sends him into danger because they both realize it's their job. Is it easy? No and it will only get harder as they come to care more and more but they're strong people who realize that the mission has to come first and their feelings, second. Now, as a noromo, you can wish a person's heart hardened against emotion I suppose but that doesn't seem logical either given that we're dealing with human beings rather than science robots.

[FoolishPleasure]

If they wanted to push a Teyla/John ship they should be including more Teyla/John scenes.

They can't because Teyla and Ronon keep running off on those long weekend trips together.

[Bama]

Oh good, so it wasn't just my pinky shippy brain that kept chewing on the Married thought when watching that scene Just push those beds together, put them in another room, remove all the hospital equipment and there you have it.

I'm telling you guys, that 'married' vibe they ooze is so noticiable. I didn't make it up. It's a vibe they have together more than any other ship I've followed at such an early point in their relationship. I suppose it's because I am married and certain things they say and do just make me shake my head because they're so familiar. Married people just have an ease and certain...'feel' with each other that can't be explained easily. They 'speak' in their own 'language'. It's not usually something that is said but rather *how* it is said or it's a certain 'look' or a certain body position sometimes. Truly, it's hard to explain but imo, S/W have 'it'.

[Dorka]

They can't because Teyla and Ronon keep running off on those long weekend trips together.

Yep that's for sure...and Teyla really cares about being dressed up nicely

[Qasim]

Teyla really cares about being dressed up nicely

Yes I have noticed....

[Athenaktt]

Well, I'm quite focused on those little things *lol*

@ Eastern Lily

Spoiler:

Yeah I know...it's only a big change after the KISS

Nah, it isn't a big change at all. It makes sense for the formalities. Since they are

Spoiler:

dealing with other people, e.g. the Genii. You don't want to come across as too laid back and easy going, especially to people you don't trust.

I do that to. I work with my aunt, and at work I call her by her name instead of "Aunt whatever." It's weird for me, but it's a formality thing.

[Bama]

Nah, it isn't a big change at all. It makes sense for the formalities. Since they are

Spoiler:

dealing with other people, e.g. the Genii. You don't want to come across as too laid back and easy going, especially to people you don't trust.

I do that to. I work with my aunt, and at work I call her by her name instead of "Aunt whatever." It's weird for me, but it's a formality thing.

Sure...all of us do. When I'm with my collegues in their office, I call them by first name. If we're giving a presentation together in front of others or I'm introducing them to a parent or other in a professional setting, I call them Mr, Mrs. or Dr. *in front* of others. And I've known some of these folks a decade! Heck, our coordinator presents his wife by her title and last name at functions.

The crew can see and sense and they most likely realize the 'name' thing is just protocol. They know how Weir and Shep are closer than anyone on SGA and hang around each other a lot. They're a smart bunch too and probably realize that the two have feelings of some sort for each other. They also probably realize that it's none of their business and as long as they can respect the authority of each, it'll remain that way.

Boy...did I ramble or what? *Oh, shut up!*