Dr River Song Speculation/Discussion ( Spoilers needed for S6/32 discussion)

[Reefgirl]

She's a long time companion and when she leaves the Doctor keeps stopping by, like he does with Sarah-Jane

[Gate-builder]

Did you see the way she looked at him though? When Lux said that they were arguing like an "old married couple." And when the Doctor said that he wouldn't give his screwdriver to anyone, and she said that she isn't just anyone. It sounded to me as though they were married.

[Reefgirl]

Watch Sarah-Jane and the Doctor in School Reunion or Sarah-Jane and Dr 4 and you'll see the same thing, almost

[ShadowMaat]

And the fact that Rose and Martha would probably have had similar reactions to the whole "married couple" thing has no bearing on the situation at all.

I know TPTB are hinting that River and the Doctor were married, but I'm holding off on that for now. Romantic relationship, maybe-kinda-sorta, but actual marriage (or, thank you Princess Bride, "mawwage") will take a lot more convincing for me to accept it.

[Gate-builder]

And the fact that Rose and Martha would probably have had similar reactions to the whole "married couple" thing has no bearing on the situation at all.

I know TPTB are hinting that River and the Doctor were married, but I'm holding off on that for now. Romantic relationship, maybe-kinda-sorta, but actual marriage (or, thank you Princess Bride, "mawwage") will take a lot more convincing for me to accept it.

I have to admit that I can't imagine the doctor getting married. Especially after what he said during 'School Reunion' about having to live on while everyone he cares about withers and dies.

[SaberBlade]

I don't think she's anyone special to be honest.

I could see the whole thing being a pre-destination paradox. She knows the Doctor's name, and by knowing that got his trust. She also had his sonic screwdriver which allowed him to save her. I think we are all assuming that she's some great love of his, but who is to say that she's not just a future companion? The current Doctor said that the future Doctor had all that time to figure out how to save her. Revealing his name and giving her the screwdriver would have been the only thing the future Doctor could have done to save her because A: He couldn't do it himself, and B: It's how he would remember it.

It could be like a cycle. There is no real deep relationship like husband and wife, but simply a series of cause and effects. He meets a woman who knows his name and has his screwdriver, which results in him saving her life and when he meets her and knows she is going on the mission that kills her, reveals his name and gives the screwdriver because that's what happened originally. I think that since it's his own personal history that would be changed, he can't risk it so has to do what he remembered by making sure everything plays out.

[P-90_177]

And the fact that Rose and Martha would probably have had similar reactions to the whole "married couple" thing has no bearing on the situation at all.

I know TPTB are hinting that River and the Doctor were married, but I'm holding off on that for now. Romantic relationship, maybe-kinda-sorta, but actual marriage (or, thank you Princess Bride, "mawwage") will take a lot more convincing for me to accept it.

Yeah it seems a bit....un-doctorish to me. The whole point of the Doctor is that he is completely alone. There's no one he can really open up to. But perhaps they did have a romantic relationship, but perhaps that wasn't why he told her his name.

The thing that interst me is that in the first part she mentioned compareing Diaries with him. And then again in the second part when she said that he showed up on her doorstep. That sort of implies that rather than anything else, she's a part time companion. Kinda like Jack I guess. She's very much her own woman and travels the universe herself but meets up with the doctor every so often. That does explain a few things. Afterall it makes sense that if they had that strong a relationship it would be because the Doctor has found a kindred spirit of sorts.

[P-90_177]

I don't think she's anyone special to be honest.

I could see the whole thing being a pre-destination paradox. She knows the Doctor's name, and by knowing that got his trust. She also had his sonic screwdriver which allowed him to save her. I think we are all assuming that she's some great love of his, but who is to say that she's not just a future companion? The current Doctor said that the future Doctor had all that time to figure out how to save her. Revealing his name and giving her the screwdriver would have been the only thing the future Doctor could have done to save her because A: He couldn't do it himself, and B: It's how he would remember it.

It could be like a cycle. There is no real deep relationship like husband and wife, but simply a series of cause and effects. He meets a woman who knows his name and has his screwdriver, which results in him saving her life and when he meets her and knows she is going on the mission that kills her, reveals his name and gives the screwdriver because that's what happened originally. I think that since it's his own personal history that would be changed, he can't risk it so has to do what he remembered by making sure everything plays out.

I thought of that. It's certainly a good way of explaining it if they never want to come back to it. But doesn't that seem like such a cop out? I mean granted she still must have been a companion at some stage, Or similar. But if there's nothing further behind it it's kinda like putting a carrot in front of the fans and then putting it just too high up to reach. I don't particularly like the idea of them having a romantic relationship either but there still must be something more behind it I think. Or I hope so.

[The_Carpenter]

I have to admit that I can't imagine the doctor getting married. Especially after what he said during 'School Reunion' about having to live on while everyone he cares about withers and dies.

unless they met in the Doctors 13th body, he may allow himself to grow attached to a human if he knows his end is near.

Of course wether or not it actually will be his last body

[P-90_177]

unless they met in the Doctors 13th body, he may allow himself to grow attached to a human if he knows his end is near.

Of course wether or not it actually will be his last body

I severely doubt it.

[SaberBlade]

I thought of that. It's certainly a good way of explaining it if they never want to come back to it. But doesn't that seem like such a cop out? I mean granted she still must have been a companion at some stage, Or similar. But if there's nothing further behind it it's kinda like putting a carrot in front of the fans and then putting it just too high up to reach. I don't particularly like the idea of them having a romantic relationship either but there still must be something more behind it I think. Or I hope so.

I don't think it is such a cop out really, as the fans don't seem to like the idea of him settling down or being involved with people, so I believe they'd accept any reasoning for her knowing that stuff without them being lovers or married.

There probably is something more behind it, as she said the Doctor cried on their final night, but I don't think I can recall the Doctor ever crying. So it's possible that he does have serious feelings for her in the future, but never allowed it go that far because he always knew she'd die or at least end up with her consiousness in a computer.

Things like marriage was probably the most common idea that fans have come up with since the episode seemed to make us want to think that, but I could see it being just a paradox or she's maybe even a regenerated form of Jenny. Anything really to stop them from dating as fans don't seem to like a lovey dovey Doctor but as a wrathful, vengeful loner who is completely nuts when angry.

[Reefgirl]

I don't think it is such a cop out really, as the fans don't seem to like the idea of him settling down or being involved with people, so I believe they'd accept any reasoning for her knowing that stuff without them being lovers or married.

There probably is something more behind it, as she said the Doctor cried on their final night, but I don't think I can recall the Doctor ever crying. So it's possible that he does have serious feelings for her in the future, but never allowed it go that far because he always knew she'd die or at least end up with her consiousness in a computer.

Things like marriage was probably the most common idea that fans have come up with since the episode seemed to make us want to think that, but I could see it being just a paradox or she's maybe even a regenerated form of Jenny. Anything really to stop them from dating as fans don't seem to like a lovey dovey Doctor but as a wrathful, vengeful loner who is completely nuts when angry.

Which is probably why a lot of long term, hardcore fans loathed series 2, the non stop shipping grated

[ShadowMaat]

Dunno about being all wrathful, but I do prefer a somewhat more aloof Doctor or at the very least more companions who aren't mired in mawkish sentimentality and brainless goo-goo eyed adoration. Donna has been a major relief on that score and I hope the hints about her stuttering boyfriend mean she'll never fall into the same stupid trap as Rose and Martha did. And even Jack, who was at least better at covering it most of the time.

I loved River Song, but the whole "twue wuv" angle is still tired, IMO.

[ShadowMaat]

Sorry for the double post, but I was just catching up on the BBC's Fear Forecast for the double ep and mention is made that when River is onscreen Rose's Theme plays. Can anyone confirm/deny this? It'd add an interesting angle to things if it's true, although given River's whole "you're so young" thing I doubt she's a reincarnation of Rose. Maybe the daughter thing wasn't so far off after all. LMAO!

[SaberBlade]

Right now i'd have to deny it, but if I knew extactly when it's supposed to play I can at least check out 'Forest of the Dead' on the BBC's Iplayer. I'll look around though, see if it's true or not but I don't think it was played.