Into the Black (320)

[ann_sgcfan]

until she resets it, druitt is dead. the mountain went boom.

now...i dunno, could she warn past druitt about the evil in the energy vortex? Or how vulnerable he was when he zorted to being invaded...but just when did that creature possess him? was JtR him or the creature? we still don't know for sure.

I tend to lean toward the creature being responsible. In S2 the creatures ability to take on the entire Sanctuary base and render them useless in a calculated plan to eliminate them, stopped only by John allowing it to inhabit himself again ... and the relative peace and relief John felt once the creature was gone ... seemed to indicate the creature was more JtR than John.

[ann_sgcfan]

Good point about John going boom ... I hadn't thought about the mountain going bye bye.
You know the writers are rough on the Five

[Skydiver]

Ya know. Not only is John dead but, as far as will and the rest know so is helen. Unless they detect the time vortex and put 2 n 2 together.

[Huaracocha]

Good point I had forgotten about the lode stone and just assumed (hoped) he would have teleported out of there. Have to assume he is dead then..

[necrule]

My view is that the creature is responsible for the urges to kill, but John is responsible for who is killed.

The creature separate from John is an indiscriminate killer, it'll kill anyone it can get its hands on at the first opportunity.

But when John gives in to the urges he doesn't just kill whoever is nearby, its very specific types of people. Prostitutes and those who provoke him. That does not come from the creature, that comes from John.

If there is a theme as to why the relationships between Helen and the suitors from her era fail, it is their misogyny.

[EvenstarSRV]

b/c i'm just trying to find the big reason why helen is so ticked at him now. yeah, what he wanted to do was , but this guy's not had his head on straight for a looong time, and helen knows why, so i just don't see *why* she was so irked...

i mean, i do in some aspects, but this seemed SO sudden, and...

and this is coming from someone that's *not* a helen/john shipper.

Druitt basically told Helen he's willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone on the planet, as well as erase everything she's done for the past 120 odd years, to fulfill his desire/obsession with renewing their relationship. He's done crazy things before but, as far as we've seem, nothing quite on that level before.

And I still don't see why Helen would need to reject John in order to get a lover next season. It's been implied that, whatever Helen felt and continued to feel for Druitt, it didn't stop her from having many relationships over the years.

until she resets it, druitt is dead. the mountain went boom.

now...i dunno, could she warn past druitt about the evil in the energy vortex? Or how vulnerable he was when he zorted to being invaded...but just when did that creature possess him? was JtR him or the creature? we still don't know for sure.

But weren't Druitt and Helen far underground near Praxis? I'd think he'd be far from the exploding caldera on near the surface, plus there was a shot of the vortex traveling up the tunnels away from where Druitt and Adam's machines were.

[kes]

b/c i'm just trying to find the big reason why helen is so ticked at him now. yeah, what he wanted to do was , but this guy's not had his head on straight for a looong time, and helen knows why, so i just don't see *why* she was so irked...

i mean, i do in some aspects, but this seemed SO sudden, and...

and this is coming from someone that's *not* a helen/john shipper.

AT said she wanted Magnus to have some fun and asked the writers to come up with something. But in S04 prep. Not before.

[RealmOfX]

My view is that the creature is responsible for the urges to kill, but John is responsible for who is killed.

The creature separate from John is an indiscriminate killer, it'll kill anyone it can get its hands on at the first opportunity.

But when John gives in to the urges he doesn't just kill whoever is nearby, its very specific types of people. Prostitutes and those who provoke him. That does not come from the creature, that comes from John.

If there is a theme as to why the relationships between Helen and the suitors from her era fail, it is their misogyny.

Interesting theory on John choosing who he kills and I can see possible examples of it however it doesn't quite gel with him choosing to kill the empath.

[Skydiver]

the creature is....his hunger pangs....makes him 'hungry', but john chooses if he picks up a carrot or hershey bar

[kes]

My view is that the creature is responsible for the urges to kill, but John is responsible for who is killed.

The creature separate from John is an indiscriminate killer, it'll kill anyone it can get its hands on at the first opportunity.

But when John gives in to the urges he doesn't just kill whoever is nearby, its very specific types of people. Prostitutes and those who provoke him. That does not come from the creature, that comes from John.

If there is a theme as to why the relationships between Helen and the suitors from her era fail, it is their misogyny.

Interesting theory on John choosing who he kills and I can see possible examples of it however it doesn't quite gel with him choosing to kill the empath.

That and I'm assuming back in 1880 something there werent a lot of proper women walking around alone at night.

[JanSam]

Interesting theory on John choosing who he kills and I can see possible examples of it however it doesn't quite gel with him choosing to kill the empath.

Doesn't it? John seemed regretful when talking to the empath and the empath's statement to him seemed to indicate the creature had most of the control at that time.

Empath "This will never be your home while you let this darkness control you."

and just before he kills her..

John "You should have said nothing. You should have left well enough alone. Why did you come to me?"

The Empath provoked John as she was a threat to both the creature and John if she told Helen.

And John knew Helen would know and come after him and yet Helen finds him lost in thought staring out the window. He even encouraged Helen to kill him.
John "I am who I am! It's high time you did something about it."
Even Helen saw into this.
Helen to Kate "It's more about compulsion than murder. I set him up for this, letting him loose on the Cabal. He knew I'd find out about his activities sooner or later. He wanted me to kill him."

So I agree with Ann; we really have no idea how much control John has and how much the creature has at any one time.

Another thing that I wonder is if the creature's agenda is "Chaos, death, suffering" (John's statement in Haunted when Helen asks him) then isn't Adam's plan playing into the creature's desire? The creature's desire to cause chaos, death, and suffering could have influenced John's desire to be with Helen. How much control over decisions does John have?? Helen just seemed to disregard the creature inside John. Don't get me wrong I do agree she'd be pissed but wouldn't she also consider the creature inside him?

[jckfan55]

I think it's a bit more mixed between those two options. Helen said in Haunted that Druitt kept the creature at bay to an extent, so it still induced him to kill but not as much as it could have without his restraint. I don't think he's even been in either complete control or entirely at it's mercy.

I agree. He does hold it at bay. I think his letting it loose more on the Cabal made it harder to try to rein in then.

And kes makes a good point, he's refused Helen's help at least three times, in 1888, in Sanctuary for All, and at the end of Haunted, and I'm sure esp at the beginning she tried or offered many more times. After over 100 years I wouldn't be surprised if she has given up on saving him.

Possibly. But he (or the idea of who he was before and what they had) seems to have a hold on her. Also, Magnus give up? But she is seriously disgusted with him right now, that's for sure.

[Skydiver]

That and I'm assuming back in 1880 something there werent a lot of proper women walking around alone at night.

Not to mention wearing pants. Totally scandalous. And being alone and broke in 1898 London means she's pretty much on her own and vulnerable.

[EH-T]

Speaking of Druitt, we've been focussing all our speculation and theorising on Helen and the timelines. What will Druitt be getting up to in the present day now that he overdosed on masses of electrickery and the creature may be in control again? Could be an interesting visit in store for the folks at the Sanctuary as if they didn't have their hands full enough already!

There's even more than that to consider. There was a massive explosion, did he even survive?

I'm sure we will see more of Druitt in season 4, he is just too good a character to lose. however, it may take a reset of the timeline to save him from the explosion.

EDIT: just saw the othe rposts about John going boom. Missed those before.

[jckfan55]

Not to mention wearing pants. Totally scandalous. And being alone and broke in 1898 London means she's pretty much on her own and vulnerable.

maybe she'll look for Dad.