Helen Magnus/John Druitt Ship/Discussion/Appreciation

[atlantis_babe34]

I think this timeline makes tons of sense! I would also add on #2 the flashback in Kush, when Helen's dreaming in the crashed plane.

So, putting some dates on it, because I'm a historical novelist at heart:

Spoiler:

1. Prior to spring, 1886, as in Revelations pt 1 James indicates that's when they used the source blood -- probably not much further back, though. Perhaps fall of 1885?
3. I would put 3 before 2, in the spring of 1886.
2. Winter, from John's overcoat and the play (London theaters closed in the summer and reopened late in the fall in that era), so 1887 or 1888. It would make sense for them to have a long engagement, as he would be expected to have a house when they married, and would need to save the money to buy one, or at least to rent them something nice.
4. November, 1889. We know when the Whitechapel murders were and when they ended. Presumably, this was the end and John fled.
5, 6, & 7. Circa 1910. Worth says it was "a hundred years ago" and the costuming is smack on for 1910.
Ashley's birth -- Ashley is 25 in 2008, so she was born in 1983
8 Fall of 2008
8.5 Ashley's death -- late spring 2009
9 Spring of 2010
10 Fall of 2010

Is this interesting/helpful?

I think Helen must have frozen the embryo after 4, because until she saw him do this with her own eyes I think she wanted to believe that it wasn't him, that her suspiscions were unfounded. Of course after she saw him kill a woman in front of her, she couldn't think that anymore.

actually in the first season in Requiem Helen says she can't relate to Ashley and will replies with "well shes 23 no person on earth can relate to people her age".. so that would make her born in 1987

[Artie]

actually in the first season in Requiem Helen says she can't relate to Ashley and will replies with "well shes 23 no person on earth can relate to people her age".. so that would make her born in 1987

Awesome! Thank you! All I had was a con report saying she was 25, but this would make her 25 at her death, which is probably what was meant. I appreciate it! *mwah*

[atlantis_babe34]

no worries

[kes]

actually in the first season in Requiem Helen says she can't relate to Ashley and will replies with "well shes 23 no person on earth can relate to people her age".. so that would make her born in 1987

Awesome! Thank you! All I had was a con report saying she was 25, but this would make her 25 at her death, which is probably what was meant. I appreciate it! *mwah*

Requiem is from 2008 so that would make her from 85, but I think she was 23 about to turn 24. That would make her from 84 (same as EU). Also I remember someone saying way back when Requiem aired that Ashley was a popular name in 84.

[kes]

Spoiler:

10 Fall of 2010

Cant be.

Spoiler:

Magnus says she's 159 but the made her birthday in August 1950. So it has to be August or before

[Artie]

Cant be.

Spoiler:

Magnus says she's 159 but the made her birthday in August 1950. So it has to be August or before

You mean August 1850? That follows. Helen is so a Leo!

[ClassicCouples]

I think this timeline makes tons of sense! I would also add on #2 the flashback in Kush, when Helen's dreaming in the crashed plane.

So, putting some dates on it, because I'm a historical novelist at heart:

Spoiler:

1. Prior to spring, 1886, as in Revelations pt 1 James indicates that's when they used the source blood -- probably not much further back, though. Perhaps fall of 1885?
3. I would put 3 before 2, in the spring of 1886.
2. Winter, from John's overcoat and the play (London theaters closed in the summer and reopened late in the fall in that era), so 1887 or 1888. It would make sense for them to have a long engagement, as he would be expected to have a house when they married, and would need to save the money to buy one, or at least to rent them something nice.
4. November, 1889. We know when the Whitechapel murders were and when they ended. Presumably, this was the end and John fled.
5, 6, & 7. Circa 1910. Worth says it was "a hundred years ago" and the costuming is smack on for 1910.
Ashley's birth -- Ashley is 25 in 2008, so she was born in 1983
8 Fall of 2008
8.5 Ashley's death -- late spring 2009
9 Spring of 2010
10 Fall of 2010

Is this interesting/helpful?

I think Helen must have frozen the embryo after 4, because until she saw him do this with her own eyes I think she wanted to believe that it wasn't him, that her suspiscions were unfounded. Of course after she saw him kill a woman in front of her, she couldn't think that anymore.

This is great! I love that you added the years! I was talking to someone this morning about Ashley, and it makes sense that she was conceived after Helen and John had injected the source blood. Because when she was taken by the Cabal, I think they just enhance her abilities, so she must have had some of her parents' source blood in her veins. And the fact the Helen wanted to make sure he was what everyone said, is very true. I don't think she wanted to believe he was capable of such things, but when she sees him to it right in front of her, she knows that her life with him is over.

[yessika]

A Timeline for Helen/John and other events:

Spoiler:

So I was organizing all this information in my head, and wanted to see what you all thought of this timeline:

1. “For King and Country” flashback to Oxford - The Five and Adam
2. “Webisodes” flashback to engagement
3. “The Five” flashback to when they injected Helen with the source blood.
4. “Sanctuary for All” (prt 2) flashback to Helen shooting John
5. “For King and Country” flashback to The Five with the Prime Minister
6. “For King and Country” flashback to Helen and John on the bridge
7. “For King and Country” flashback to Helen shooting Adam / John and Adam in the water
* Birth of Ashley
8. “Sanctuary for All” (prt 1) John attempting to teleport into the Sanctuary
9. “Haunted” discover what really made John become Jack the Ripper
10. “For King and Country”

I would say that Helen obviously froze the embryo before #5, but whether it was before or after she shot John, I don't know.

Cool timeline!

I think this timeline makes tons of sense! I would also add on #2 the flashback in Kush, when Helen's dreaming in the crashed plane.

So, putting some dates on it, because I'm a historical novelist at heart:

Spoiler:

1. Prior to spring, 1886, as in Revelations pt 1 James indicates that's when they used the source blood -- probably not much further back, though. Perhaps fall of 1885?
3. I would put 3 before 2, in the spring of 1886.
2. Winter, from John's overcoat and the play (London theaters closed in the summer and reopened late in the fall in that era), so 1887 or 1888. It would make sense for them to have a long engagement, as he would be expected to have a house when they married, and would need to save the money to buy one, or at least to rent them something nice.
4. November, 1889. We know when the Whitechapel murders were and when they ended. Presumably, this was the end and John fled.
5, 6, & 7. Circa 1910. Worth says it was "a hundred years ago" and the costuming is smack on for 1910.
Ashley's birth -- Ashley is 25 in 2008, so she was born in 1983
8 Fall of 2008
8.5 Ashley's death -- late spring 2009
9 Spring of 2010
10 Fall of 2010

Is this interesting/helpful?

I think Helen must have frozen the embryo after 4, because until she saw him do this with her own eyes I think she wanted to believe that it wasn't him, that her suspiscions were unfounded. Of course after she saw him kill a woman in front of her, she couldn't think that anymore.

Thanks for putting the dates, I always get it all jumbled up in my head

[yessika]

Soo, I can't seem to stop watchings vids with FK&C clips in them (I wonder why ). This one is my favorite so far:

Spoiler:

[Artie]

Oh that's fun! Thank you for sharing!

[yessika]

Oh that's fun! Thank you for sharing!

My pleasure

[Padme18]

Hey, Padme, welcome! Hope you'll stay around.
The episode attracted lots of newcomers. I'm happy.


About that scene - yes again... We will never talk enough about it until the next episode airs. ;P I'll share with you what I just told Em on msn.

Spoiler:

We were saying that Helen looked scared. Scared by herself I believe - at what she is feeling and is not supposed to feel. I strongly think she's afraid of falling in love with him again. I think that's where the look on her face comes from when she ponders whether she should lie next to him or not. You know - can she really allow herself to be THAT worried about him, again? After evrything he's done? Must be pretty scary to ponder on thoughts like these.

What do you guys think? What is the look on her face before/after? Since there are no words exchanged.

I'm afraid I can't resist mine any longer. *sigh*

Spoiler:

She does looked scared. Scared that at any second he could wake up and not have the entity at bay. But I think part of her wanted to just be in his arms again.

Definitely. I loved that first vid to bits!



Padme! *hugs* Long time no see! Glad you've made your way over here!

Spoiler:

Yes, you heard correctly.

And while we're all discussing the significance and context of that one line, may I just say what genius writers we have on this show. I actually like that on first view of an episode a line like that kind of catches you off balance, and you say to yourself, "What on earth did he mean by 'dance'?". Then as you think about it, and rewatch the episode, you realize just how much sense to their relationship it actually makes. It's sarcasm conveying their unorthodox relationship while showing the relationship they wish they could have, but never will. So many layers.

((((Hugs to the writers))))

*hugs* Good to see you too.

My thought, possibly upsetting.

Spoiler:

Given the technology of the time, I think Helen is grasping at straws about freezing the embryo. She can't actually have any reasonable expectation of being able to implant and use it, not even 1%. (Remember, the first In Vitro Fertilization was only 30 years ago!) Removing it is essentially an abortion. The chances that it wouldn't die and would be viable at some future date are almost nil. I think she freezes it to make it easier for herself, to tell herself that she's not ending the pregnancy, merely postponing it. It's Helen's way of coping with finding out that not only is she pregnant out of wedlock in a society that will be very censuring, but that her baby's father is an insane serial killer!

And so she temporizes. She comes up with a way to do this that she can handle.

So when she's talking to John on the bridge, she's not saying, "Oh, and btw I was pregnant and I got (James?) to cut the fetus out of me just like you mutiliating all those women's corpses and I keep our frozen fetus lying around the icebox." I mean, John is not the only one a little off around here!

I totally get why she's done that, but there is something a bit gruesome.

I agree

Spoiler:

They didn't have that technology back then. The only thing I can think of is that James and Nikola possibly helped her. James for his genius and Nikola becasue of the electrical power source it would need to keep it cold. Ice boxes didn't exaclty keep the ice from eventually melting.

Spoiler:

So perfectly put!! The writers are incredible. This is one of the reasons I wanted to be an English major in college. I love every moment of analyzing something like this. I love layers!! Speaking of layers, "Inception" comes out on DVD tomorrow!

LOL



Can't say that I agree, but it is a very interesting idea. If I learned nothing else in my years at college, I learned that you don't always have to agree with what everyone else says, but you should consider how they may be right and appreciate the perspective of others.

Spoiler:

Though, I must say that I did have questions as to how she saved the embryo. Even though she was at the height of science at the time, I don't know how it would have worked. I guess I never thought of Helen and John actually sleeping together, but how else would she have an embryo. Anyway. It is definitely worth thinking about.

Victorians weren't as uptight about sex as we think they were, trust me. I studied Victorian Lit and their is a lot of sexual undertones in some of it.

I liked it!! lol!

Spoiler:

I have this image of Helen and John standing so close, giving off the appearence that they are going to kiss and then they turn and smile wicked smiles at Tesla who was watching them.

That would be funny!

A Timeline for Helen/John and other events:

Spoiler:

So I was organizing all this information in my head, and wanted to see what you all thought of this timeline:

1. “For King and Country” flashback to Oxford - The Five and Adam
2. “Webisodes” flashback to engagement
3. “The Five” flashback to when they injected Helen with the source blood.
4. “Sanctuary for All” (prt 2) flashback to Helen shooting John
5. “For King and Country” flashback to The Five with the Prime Minister
6. “For King and Country” flashback to Helen and John on the bridge
7. “For King and Country” flashback to Helen shooting Adam / John and Adam in the water
* Birth of Ashley
8. “Sanctuary for All” (prt 1) John attempting to teleport into the Sanctuary
9. “Haunted” discover what really made John become Jack the Ripper
10. “For King and Country”

I would say that Helen obviously froze the embryo before #5, but whether it was before or after she shot John, I don't know.

Spoiler:

I say she probably froze it after the shooting. Probably realized after that that she was pregnant.

actually in the first season in Requiem Helen says she can't relate to Ashley and will replies with "well shes 23 no person on earth can relate to people her age".. so that would make her born in 1987

Awesome! Thank you! All I had was a con report saying she was 25, but this would make her 25 at her death, which is probably what was meant. I appreciate it! *mwah*

Requiem is from 2008 so that would make her from 85, but I think she was 23 about to turn 24. That would make her from 84 (same as EU). Also I remember someone saying way back when Requiem aired that Ashley was a popular name in 84.

Her age is a little shady. If she 23 at the start of the series in 2008, that would make her about 24 at her death in 2009. She'd be born in 85 then, a year before me. But I don't think it really matters. Ashley was popular in the mid 80s period. I had three girls in one of my high school English classes named Ashley, and they were born in 87 (I was I year older so my classmates were younger).

[kes]

You mean August 1850? That follows. Helen is so a Leo!

Right lol Habit

[kv0921]

Didn't they say though that Helen Was 160 on Amanda Tappings Birthday and Amanda is a Virgo, so wouldnt Helen be a Virgo?

[LadyGalaxyJ]

Loving the timeline and the dates! I'll save that for later - it's good for fic writing.

OT:

Spoiler:

I'm having a bad day, but reading your discussion improved it a little. YAY for this wonderful ship. <3

I'll have more to say when I'm back from school... (No time right now, but I wanted to write a little something!)